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I'm now in a state of confusion about what the dubbers are playing at

Discussion in 'Animé Spoilers' started by TheNewGuy, Jan 23, 2011.

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  1. TheNewGuy

    TheNewGuy Well-Known Member

    Watched DP189, and saw it kept all the music from the original Ash vs. Tobias battle. Perfect. Great. It fit perfectly.

    So why on earth did they change it so much for the Ash vs. Paul battle? It's confusing. The music that played during Pikachu vs. Latios (I don't know the name of it), played in all three eps of Ash vs. Paul as well as during Ash vs. Conway. Since it didn't play on any of the three occasions it did during Ash vs. Paul (Pikachu vs. Aggron; when Pikachu was getting frozen vs. Froslass; Infernape vs. Electivire), I figured the dub crew just didn't have access to it. Fine. But then I heard it in the ep yesterday.

    During Ash vs. Paul the dubbers also removed Search for Latios when Gliscor was spinning away from Drapion. This music HAS played before in the dub, during the infamous Thunder Armour sequence. Here the music didn't even change. It was the same music as when Gliscor made contact with Drapion - in the original, the music kicks in dramatically to celebrate Gliscor using that technique McCann tought him. And it leads right into the cliffhanger for the episode.

    The music for Buizel vs. Gastrodon synced perfectly with the action in the original too, but was removed in the dub. The Flygon music from Wish Maker was retained during Gliscor vs. Ninjask but not during Gliscor's KO of Drapion - this is odd.

    Type:Wild has Japanese lyrics so I understand it not being used and I never really expected the English version to take its place - wasn't the original type:wild done when a different company was in charge of the dub anyway?

    I don't know. It might seem like a minor issue but the real point here is that rather than keeping it more or less the same, the dubbers are going to great lengths to actually make the show worse. Licensed, orchestral movie music will always, always be better than whatever generic crap they can come up with off the cuff. So why replace said movie music with said generic crap? It's really weird. Like I said, they go to great lengths to make it worse.

    Semi-final frontier was a good episode in the dub (Tobias' cool VA helped). Ash vs. Paul was good too, still unequivocally the best battle of all time even dubbed, but didn't match the quality of the original partly because of the music. It's just...weird.

    And I typed way more than I thought I would.
  2. GaZsTiC

    GaZsTiC Alternating

    The translation from Japanese to dub always involves a loss in the original BGM. It's a shame, but something that dub-fans will simply have to put up with.
  3. AdvancedK9

    AdvancedK9 SHOOP DA WOOP!!!

    Would YOU rather spend $10,000 dollars buying a piece of music rather than $1,000 to make you own?
  4. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    I don't get it either. It's like there's a schism in the dubbing company where one faction wants the Japanese BGM to remain in the dub while the rest wants generic, crappy music to replace said Japanese BGM in the dub.

    I honestly don't know.
  5. TheNewGuy

    TheNewGuy Well-Known Member


    OK, call me naive but I never even considered this as a possibility. I wouldn't have thought the Japanese actually charged them to keep the music. They sell the show to them; I'd have thought that included the music =/

    And that still doesn't explain why some of it was kept, like Flygon music and the entirety of DP189, but some of it wasn't.
  6. GaZsTiC

    GaZsTiC Alternating

    Music costs money. Money they'd much rather keep.
  7. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    How does that work for TPCi? They're part of the Pokemon Company (it's in their name, for crap's sake) and they have to pay to use music in the English dub of the Pokemon Anime?

    And even if they had to, I'm sure that they could pay up as they're the international branch of a company that produces a multi-million dollar franchise.

    Either I'm missing something here or this just some dumb excuse the fans on these forums made up.

    That or TPCi is incredibly cheap.
  8. AdvancedK9

    AdvancedK9 SHOOP DA WOOP!!!

    I don't think the Japanese actually charge. It's simply due to international licensing issues and all the good diplomatic crapfest between countries.
  9. MidnightMelody

    MidnightMelody Hopeful for Gen 8

    I doubt the majority of the viewers even care. I think only about 30 % of the fans are even on these forums. Most watch the show just for something to do. I mean I hardly pay attention to the music
  10. GaZsTiC

    GaZsTiC Alternating

    I'd say less than 1% of Pokemon fans frequent the forums.
  11. Grei

    Grei not the color

    But again, none of that explains why they would decide to sometimes get rid of the music and sometimes keep it around. Why waste money only some of the time when you could go all or nothing?
  12. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    You know, I wonder why TPCi even bothers keeping some JPN BGM when they could replace it all.

    Are they just using the ones the producers like at this point?
  13. AdvancedK9

    AdvancedK9 SHOOP DA WOOP!!!

    Sometimes it's worth spending the $10,000 if you really like the music and if you think it'll have feedback from the intended audience.

    And sometimes you get that "Omg u japs we r merry canz we cn d0 betur thn u" between the business guys in some pieces and do your own pieces out of pride.
  14. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    So it's whether they like the music or not.
  15. randomspot555

    randomspot555 Well-Known Member

    Television is filled with history of music licensing that, in some cases, can be ridiculously expensive. Some older television shows, such as The Wonder Years, have had several delays in DVD releases specifically due to the fact that so much licensed music is used that it would cost a small fortune to have the rights to that music. But some would also argue losing that music and replacing it with generic music affects the show as well.

    I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the animated dubs of Pokemon are operated on some type of budget. From what I gather, many of the voice actors they used or have used started out on the show relatively new to voice acting, or at least VA-ing in a main role on a fairly big show.

    Music licensing is expensive, especially depending on who holds the rights to the music. Add in international law and all that and it can add up quickly. And every dollar that is spent on music is something that can't be spent elsewhere.

    Basically, licensing doesn't get expensive until you try to release it on DVD. That's where you can run into trouble.
  16. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    And yet FUNimation, the late (but great) ADV Films, Bandai, Bang-Zoom, VIZ Media and other dubbing companies besides 4kids manage to use the JPN BGM in their dubs.
  17. Mandi.

    Mandi. 3:

    I find it hilarious that they keep some of the music, but then they change some of the best original music and make their crap of a wtf is that music?
    at least if you're going to be a cheap ass, make the music somewhat similar to the original ..and like ..decent. o_O;
  18. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, why can't they make the dub music sound like the JPN BGM?

    Wait, don't tell me! Money, right?
  19. Sabonea_Masukippa

    Sabonea_Masukippa Well-Known Member

    It's quite simple, I think.

    Each ep of the anime, in principle, has a budget. Let's guess it's somewhere between $50,000 and $100,000. Theoretically their dealing with a 3rd party (either the Japanese music producer themselves or the company that deals with the anime) and that 3rd party can and will rightly charge for the use of that work, which is in principle different to the visual images. Couple that with the fact that licensing music is an expensive and involved process anyway.

    So, even if TCPi did want to use the Japanese BGM they need to be able to afford it. When they can I'm sure they save money on some filler ep's music or production and so on to afford it. It's a shame. And don't whinge about Pokemon being a multi-billion dollar franchise; it may be, but that is divided up among numerous companies and divisions n those companies that are under no obligation to allocate their money to the dubbing team of the cartoon. If the anime wants to get more money to afford better/original BGM (assuming there are not restrictive licensing problems that we're not privy to), the ratings for the cartoon need to improve so that advertisers will pay more money to advertise their products during the show's run.
  20. randomspot555

    randomspot555 Well-Known Member

    Congrats on ignoring the entirety of my post.

    Music licensing is expensive. Add in that JP music has a whole set of international laws to throw in with, and then they'll either be forced to change it for the DVD or pay out another chunk of change for a DVD release, and it presents a whole host of problems that for the most part, the good folks at TPCi don't want to deal with.

    Most of the dub music sounds just fine to me.
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