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Iris and Serena have shown the most growth out of all his companions.

bmw9413

Well-Known Member
The underrated heroine of BW and the overrated heroine of XYZ have had the best returns in Journeys BY FAR!!!! I'm pretty sure we're going to see Iris again at the PWC (spoiled via the opening) but I really hope we get Serena again and she and Ash have proper closure to Amourshipping if this is his final series.
On the other hand....is Serena and Lisia forming a pop star group for contests? At least that's the impression I got from her scene with her.
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
I fully agree. Both of their returns were wonderful and amazing.
Each returned for one episode and it was wonderful, as opposed to Dawn who appeared in so many episodes and it felt shallow and dull to me.
Quality over quantity I guess,,
 

bmw9413

Well-Known Member
I fully agree. Both of their returns were wonderful and amazing.
Each returned for one episode and it was wonderful, as opposed to Dawn who appeared in so many episodes and it felt shallow and dull to me.
Quality over quantity I guess,,
Yeah, I'll never understand why they keep bringing back Dawn to have random battles against legendary Pokemon with just Piplup. Her character has literally been frozen in time since her BW appearance; she's literally achieved nothing.
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
And Dawn has shown the regress out of all, no team change, no new clothes, heck she is now doing sinnoh contests (where she was the runners up) again like she is some rookie
 

k6666

Pikachu Fan
And Dawn has shown the regress out of all, no team change, no new clothes, heck she is now doing sinnoh contests (where she was the runners up) again like she is some rookie
She basically ash before alola
 

Poke Master 7

Boulder Trainer
Brock with how every time he returns he shows more and more how he’s advanced with his profession as a Pokémon Doctor and Misty with how she turned the Cerulean Gym around since taking over duties from her sisters say hi.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
I loved how they handled Serena's return.
Iris' return was ok, but I didn't like that they didn't explain much about her becoming champion as well as Ash beating her with a freshly caught team when he's had trouble even touching one of an elite 4's/champion's Pokemon in the past series.
 

SatoSereFan224888

Well-Known Member
I did notice Serena looked a bit more mature in her return. I am a little upset Braixen became Delphox but I guess the writers wanted to show much she has matured so I guess it makes sense maturity wise.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I feel like Dawn is stagnant because she already had a good progression rate in her main series. Not the best excuse to get NOTHING new but really Dawn has an iconic and competent team and lacks as many loose ends as the other companions in the first place, so I can see why they struggle thinking of some change ups for her, like Ash, she is strongest as a foil at this point.

Really though, I am also a fan of Sophocles' understated but still enjoyable development throughout the two series, going from a secluded and kinda introverted kid to one of Ash's top bros and making fundamental steps in his goal to travel space.

Looking back I also think Team Rocket have some overlooked character development as well. Despite being second fiddle, Jessie's performance arc throughout three series is actually impressively played and gratifying, slowly and arduously going from a chronic cheat and jobber to a genuine competitor that actually has some level of professional gracefulness to her. I kinda hope they go back to that ambition with her at some point.
 
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Yeah, I'll never understand why they keep bringing back Dawn to have random battles against legendary Pokemon with just Piplup. Her character has literally been frozen in time since her BW appearance; she's literally achieved nothing.
She didn't do that in the Arceus specials, she was fully integrated into the group and used Mamoswine as well, and worked with Inteleon and Dracovish. Dawn has already made it to the finals and since the writers don't want her a top coordinator there's not much else they can take her. Dawn has always been involved in villain/legendary arcs more than the other girls.

I'm not sure what the problem is here, she could use a new pokemon but coming back for legendary/villain arcs has always suited her over other female companions.
 
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Jibanyan

Well-Known Member
She didn't do that in the Arceus specials, she was fully integrated into the group and used Mamoswine as well, and worked with Inteleon and Dracovish. Dawn has already made it to the finals and since the writers don't want her a top coordinator there's not much else they can take her. Dawn has always been involved in villain/legendary arcs more than the other girls.

I'm not sure what the problem is here, she could use a new pokemon but coming back for legendary/villain arcs has always suited her over other female companions.
Scott alert
 

KingMinun

Dawn/Sinnoh Fan!
Oh joy, another, let’s rip on Dawn because she’s not had any team changes thread…..

Serena left to do contests, she’s come back and is doing contests….and one of her Pokemon evolved, she’s progressed so much!!

Dawn left and had a team change in Cyndaquil, just because that was over 10 years ago it still stands as a team change. Dawn got to the finals in her story arc, we saw her progression in Sinnoh, she left and is still doing contests, so there’s hardly going to be that much of a change.

I’d rather Dawn keep coming back and seeing how she interacts with the newer characters, and that’s exactly what she’s done, she had a 2 parter where she had fantastic interaction with Chloe, she got the opportunity to interact with just Goh as they got separated from the group together and in the Arceus special we got to see her interact with Ash and Brock like the old days, I’d rather that than some lame contest change goal, or some half thought of battle against a “champion”.

If they are going down the route of contests being more like the absolutely dire showcases, then I’d rather not see Dawn compete in a contest again and see her interact with the others like she has been, plus she’s contributed to saving a ton of legendaries so she’s pretty much a heroine for that.

And Dawn not getting new Pokémon is following on exactly from what they set up in her special, she wants to continue with her current team and continue making memories with them. Yeah Quilava could evolve, and I’d personally love that but you can’t deny she hasn’t had a team change at all since leaving Ash just because her last team change happened over 10 years ago.
 
Technically it was 12 years ago, the special Cyndaquil evolved in aired in 2010 right after the DP finale. I do think she should have had at least a new capture or evolution but the writers barely have old characters make new captures anymore. Even Misty hasn't had a new pokemon since Azurill and that was way back in 2005 like 17 years ago!

The Contests are basically the same as the game ones in both ORAS and the DP remakes but given we'll never get a full contest shown again it really doesn't matter. But it was nice to see Serena traveling on her own and being her own person.

Tbh they probably should of just made Dawn a top coordinator. It wouldn't be much more than a line or two about Dawn saying she won a Grand Festival. But the writers seem against any main character winning their goals so that's why Dawn apparently lost 3 more Grand Festivals off-screen. I guess we can assume she still made the finals each time at least, lol
 

Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
Ngl it was cool basically seeing Haxorus use Breaking Swipe and Outrage when taking into account early in BW he had trouble just lasting Dragon Rage.

I kinda thought besides Piplup and possibly Togepi, they had the strongest relationship.

They looked so cute when Iris was comforting him after they lost
 

satopi

Life doesn’t end, …it changes.
What? What about May? She’s the foundation before them. She had to suffer through some of the same pain that Serena and Dawn had to face yet walked with pride at the end. May didn’t know what she wanted to do, she only became a Pokémon Trainer to travel the world and to get out of the house. She chose Torchic because it was cute and was completely scared of/hated Pokémon. She didn’t almost achieve her goal of becoming Top Coordinator and she played a vital role, if not, the most well written placement that intertwined in the plot when she returned.
 
What? What about May? She’s the foundation before them. She had to suffer through some of the same pain that Serena and Dawn had to face yet walked with pride at the end. May didn’t know what she wanted to do, she only became a Pokémon Trainer to travel the world and to get out of the house. She chose Torchic because it was cute and was completely scared of/hated Pokémon. She didn’t almost achieve her goal of becoming Top Coordinator and she played a vital role, if not, the most well written placement that intertwined in the plot when she returned.
Yep, in terms of inner-development and using her Pokemon May probably has some of the most growth, but the problem is we haven't seen her in a long time so there's not much else to say. It's amazing how May started off just wanting to travel and had to overcome her male rivals and strike out on her own. She also has the most character change in terms of personality through the series.

Iris character felt unfinished in BW, and while Serena had some nice development, we didn't see the outcome of it till her recent cameos. Same with Misty who got sidelined in Johto and didn't get most of her development till her cameos.

We used to get fully completed arcs in their actual series like we got with May or Dawn. I don't know why the writers sidelined some girls and wait till their cameos after they leave the series to develop them like Misty, etc
 

UltimateNinja

Praying for the holy relics
Iris return was bad. That "growth" felt like an random asspull because they wanted Iris as a champion. Not even a single special episode like the Gible one where she got a single episode of spotlight alone since said episode Yes, having a decent gym leader level -> champion growth in one episode is very hard to do but now Iris suddenly being the Unova champion felt super akward and honestly forced.

Serena...well Serena "matured" a bit. Maybe that's more realistic in that short time period but still room for improvement not only goal related.
 
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Iris return was bad. That "growth" felt like an random asspull because they wanted Iris as a champion. Not even a single special episode like the Gible one where she got a single episode of spotlight alone since said episode Yes, having a decent gym leader level -> champion growth in one episode is very hard to do but now Iris suddenly being the Unova champion felt super akward and honestly forced.

Serena...well Serena "matured" a bit. Maybe that's more realistic in that short time period but still room for improvement not only goal related.
Iris had been off-screen for 3 series. It's not that hard to believe she beat the Unova league and then got strong enough to defeat Alder.
 

Bendicion

Water Master
What? What about May? She’s the foundation before them. She had to suffer through some of the same pain that Serena and Dawn had to face yet walked with pride at the end. May didn’t know what she wanted to do, she only became a Pokémon Trainer to travel the world and to get out of the house.
How is May "suffering" exactly"? The fact that for the entirety of AG she lost only three times, not counting GF is just unbelievable to me. I would have loved to see May struggle in contests. But instead she herself got too good at contests way tooooo quickly.... May relies on stuff like Munchlax's Metronome and Skitty's Assist, her wins don't feel deserved to be honest. Even in Kanto, there was fair and share BS victories, like when she was clearly loses to Brock, or Harley's Ariados. Or the fact, that she literally beat Bannete with Normal moves.
 
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