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Is Ash really that bad??
- Thread starter queerstin
- Start date
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Bguy7
The Dragon Lord
Yeah, I've been focusing so much on him as a trainer, I forgot about the other part.
On subject of Ash's age, I would say that as Ash is stated to still be 10, that means less than a year has passed, even though there are two different occasions that say at least a year has passed, as well as several mentions of time periods that would add up to over a year. In the end, it's a series with no sense of time, and is next to pointless to attempt to ascertain people's age.
Bguy7
The Dragon Lord
It's actually said several times that they are on a planet called Earth. However, seeing how the world of Pokemon is obviously nothing like our Earth, it could just be another planet called Earth, an alternate dimension version of Earth (my money's on that one), or saying Earth was just a writing mistake/overlook, as Earth sounds better than planet.
I would say that since Ash still looks 10, it doesn't really matter how old he is. It's obvious that no more than let's say 3 years have passes, or else we would have noticed.
RedJirachi
Veteran member
It's like Ash escaped from Groundhog Day, but left his talent there
Crystal
The Pokemon Observer
His situation could be worse, because he is not yet aware of the time loop. Or perhaps he is indeed aware of it (since he mentioned he is still 10 in BW), but feeling satisfied of trapped in the time loop, so he doesn't feel the necessity to improve in order to escaped from this time loop.
......BTW, it was estimated that in the film of Groundhog Day, Phil Connors repeated the day for no less than 10000 times, worthy enough for 30~40 years.
Whereas Ash Ketchum is currently on the mark of merely 17 years. If not counting in real-world timespan but in-anime time of at least 1~2 days per episodes, still it is merely 3~6 years. ......How much time to you think it will take in order for him to actually start improve himself in order to escape the time loop?
And just a sidenote. As being just an audience I'm for 100% definite I'll not follow him for that long. So it is just a matter of time I'll be forever step out of the Pokemon Anime.
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phanpycross
God-king
So he's a failure except he isnt?
Only when he has to be, otherwise he can be average at best imo. I feel like Ash would be a better trainer if he didn't rely on Pikachu as much as he does though, and if he used his other Pokemon more instead.
You could at least explain why he is a failure
Pokegirl Fan~
Liko>>>>>Ash
He's horrible IMO. His character is doomed to repeat the same boring gym quest arc and compete in leagues over and over again while going no farther than the top 4 in them, which he's only done once. Ever since BW his character seemed completely pointless to me, especially when he dropped back down to the top 8 in the league, though tbh I think he needed to drop further down to the top 16 with the way he was acting and training his Pokemon in BW.
XY doesn't seem much different to me, I'm guessing he'll probably rank in the top 8 again, and in some future series I'm willing to bet that there could be another repeat of his character regression that happened in BW.
I really don't see the appeal to his character anymore when he has the same boring quest that he's not even progressing in and getting closer to his goal of becoming a Pokemon master and also that his character never really develops. His character is just a big waste of time to watch for imo.
XY doesn't seem much different to me, I'm guessing he'll probably rank in the top 8 again, and in some future series I'm willing to bet that there could be another repeat of his character regression that happened in BW.
I really don't see the appeal to his character anymore when he has the same boring quest that he's not even progressing in and getting closer to his goal of becoming a Pokemon master and also that his character never really develops. His character is just a big waste of time to watch for imo.
Crystal
The Pokemon Observer
OK, this is a review of mine trying to answer the concern of the OP, after my attempt of trying to rewatch the OS Kanto saga (in Japanese) with a back-to-basics heart of simply trying to enjoy an anime as a form of entertainment, without any precognition and preconceived idea of latter sagas. This review will merely focus on Kanto Indigo League saga only, not including Adventure in Orange Islands and Johto League.
Before the review, I'll firstly need a little introductory preface. In the year of 1997 before Pokemon anime actually started to broadcast, the game of Pokemon RGB was in fact not really that popular. So very few audience were gamer of Pokemon RGB before they started watching the anime. But thanked to the success of Pokemon anime, the game also became famous where globalization was decided. Therefore, in fact very few audience at that old time had foreknowledge from the game before they watch the show, hence many didn't know what is Pokemon, many didn't know what to expect from the Pokemon characters. Without any foreknowledge, it will then be natural for the audience to relate themselves to the things they are most familiar with -- the human characters.
Now let's start off with the protagonist of this show. Ash Ketchum, an energetic 10-year-old kid from Pallet Town dreaming to become a Pokemon Master. Well, having a big dream and full of energy is not anything bad, but... from what I saw he just always used his (overabundant) energy in the wrong place, for example right in EP001 he threw the alarm clock which causes him to wake up late; as another example in EP008 he physically dispute with AJ about his training methods; and as another example in EP025 he simply throwing the Pokeball at Mankey without thinking, and also trying to retrieve his hat from it on his own effort. I'm simply putting a few significant examples here, as the list is just too big, if I have to list them all it will be like listing all the episodes, because almost every episode you would find Ash being over-energetic where he has to discharge his energy through some activities, whether that is Pokemon battles or helping others or playing or quarrel with other people.
After rewatching, I rather found personality and characteristics of Ash leaning more towards negative than positive. Firstly he is super arrogant (suggested clearly in EP008), always acted like he is forever right and every other people are wrong (e.g. EP008 and EP065). Secondly he was too emotional to the point of unreasonable, always made decisions based on his emotions but very seldomly decided things wisely using his brain (almost throughout the entire show), I also needed to wonder the decisional logic behind his instructions during each battles. Well, if he did possess any wisdom, then he won't be so ignorant and lack of knowledge, willing to learn and take advices from others from the very start. Thirdly he is super self-centred, always think of himself first, Pokemon only came second and any other human characters came third (one should see it in almost every beginning of gyms, up to EP076 where he prefers to eat before healing his Pokemon, even the tear-inducing EP039, he insisted Pikachu to stay with other wild Pikachus despited that Pikachu followed and yell at him to stay, ignoring Pikachu's feeling in the first attempt). But, in case of Pokemon is jeopardized and endangered, he will oppositely be so self-forgetting to the level of sacrifice his own body in order to save Pokemon (In the very first EP001, also EP004, EP026, Snow Way Out!, EP051, and very first Mewtwo Movie). I would not say that is anything bad, but... does he even realized for many times his Pokemons were jeopardized by no one else but Ash himself? The worse is that he would finally learn a lesson only when his Pokemon is severely injured. Therefore such mixture of self-centredness and selflessness seems rather very sarcastic and hypocritical. Ah, speaking of that, his ideology of Pokemon should be treat like friends just made him a super hypocrite, because I just don't see him treat his Pokemon like friends. Really for sure, just look at EP001 he drag Pikachu like an item, and alluded so many times from his battle attitude, and the most significant example is Charizard.
And then regarding on battles, I can only say two words of foolish and impulsive. There is basically no strategies and tactics in any battles, not any preparation before gym matches, he doesn't even have basic Pokemon knowledges required for being a Pokemon Trainer (showed in EP056). If you do have to ask the reason leading to his victory of many matches, it would rather be greatly thanks to the intrinsic strength of his Pokemon themselves. Ash himself didn't contribute much as he seldom trained his Pokemon, almost all the gym matches he just barge in and fight, if loses the first trial the first thing came up in his mind is rather any sort of method which could instantly power-up his Pokemon, or any convenient method to defeat his opponent instantly (Pewter, Saffron, I would kind of include Vermillion as well due to at first Ash was thinking of using Thunderstone instead of training), just not trying to train normally and accumulate battle experience like most normal trainer would do (even in Cinnabar, he wasn't thinking of improving his Pokemon, originally just intended to rematch for another lucky try). Most importantly! he never tried to educate and improve on himself as a trainer, even in that (supposed) two months time before Indigo League, he used 99% of the time played his head off rather than doing actual training. No wonder he was mocked and downplayed by Gary Oak.
In terms of human relationship, as he was being too cocky at start and no considerations and caring towards any other, adding on the fact that he was just a newbie without any achievement, it was really irritating seeing he went haughty as soon as he achieved something, feels like others must then respect him because he achieved something "great" (Good Job AJ in triumph over him in EP008. It was however very disappointing not seeing AJ in Indigo League...). That went a lot better in latter half, but at some occasional times he still shows disrespect towards Brock and Misty, where that subtly showed Ash still thinks he can archieve his goal without any help and assistance from others, a sign showing he was still being arrogant. No wonder Misty was always irritated at Ash throughout the story, not so much in later stage but one could still sense contempt in her attitude towards him. Well Brock was a collected person so he is wise enough to not getting angered by Ash, but being the oldest and taking care of the other two, connive at Ash's unwise imprudent actions just subtly showed the friendship between the two was not that strong as it was assumed by many fans.
But, despite all of these negative character traits he had, there does exist one thing I would praise for as well, which is his righteousness. Whenever he saw things unjust and unrighteous, he would voluntarily poke his nose into it. Whenever he saw someone in need of help, he would tried his best to lend a hand, even the one in need of help is TRio (EP048). Whenever TRio doing villainous deeds, he will battles them to stop them, but when they are not, he won't even bother to hurt them, completely unlike in later sagas where he just beat the three up unarguably without confirming did they did any bad deeds or not. He believed firmly of his ideology and will not be altered by whoever's word despite so many people downplayed him. Yeah, he had magnificient inner fortitude possibly unbreakable and unbendable. ...But, having such great inner strength yet having such personality, that oppositely made his stubbornness more unbreakable. Hence in Ash's case, such strong point is unfortunately adding bonus to his weak point, making his weak point more outstanding.
So, if I have to explain the OS Kanto Ash Ketchum in a simple sentence, that would be a pretentious airhead trying to achieve something he was not worthy to become. Judging from all his actions within the show, despite he is a Pokemon Trainer, but it rather showed what he loved most is merely Pokemon battles, catching came second, training and caring the Pokemon only came at third. As being a protagonist of a kid-friendly adventure story, Ash is really bad and irritating even in the children standard. Also being anime target at children, I can withstand the foolish bullied child Nobita in Doraemon, I can withstand arrogant ones such as Shirobom in Bomberman Jetters, I can withstand the naive ones such as Kirby in Hoshi no Kirby animation, I can withstand the overly hot-blooded Netto of Rockman EXE series. But Ash Ketchum of Pokemon anime, and merely in the very first season...... I can't stand watching.
BTW, as I went through the blogs of Shudo Takeshi, the head scenario writer of Pokemon anime OS Indigo League saga that had already deceased, his original story goal intended for the Pokemon anime was to portray a friendly adventurous world where every children would had dreamed to set out on a journey. Well I would had said such theme did somehow reach to the heart of children (as I was also one of such excited children), but now when I look back from the eyes of an adult spectator, I will now doubt can this theme reach to the heart of children, especially if watching the Pokemon world through the position of Ash Ketchum.
Maybe I'll do another character review for later sagas in the future, but I can't say for sure because this rewatching attempt just greatly wear away my remaining interest for the anime I still kept for all these years. But for now, this is my review of Ash Ketchum during the OS Indigo League saga, from the eye of mine as an adult audience.
======================================================================
BTW, there exist another review of mine about the overall OS Indigo League saga. If one is interested, one is welcome to read.
Before the review, I'll firstly need a little introductory preface. In the year of 1997 before Pokemon anime actually started to broadcast, the game of Pokemon RGB was in fact not really that popular. So very few audience were gamer of Pokemon RGB before they started watching the anime. But thanked to the success of Pokemon anime, the game also became famous where globalization was decided. Therefore, in fact very few audience at that old time had foreknowledge from the game before they watch the show, hence many didn't know what is Pokemon, many didn't know what to expect from the Pokemon characters. Without any foreknowledge, it will then be natural for the audience to relate themselves to the things they are most familiar with -- the human characters.
Now let's start off with the protagonist of this show. Ash Ketchum, an energetic 10-year-old kid from Pallet Town dreaming to become a Pokemon Master. Well, having a big dream and full of energy is not anything bad, but... from what I saw he just always used his (overabundant) energy in the wrong place, for example right in EP001 he threw the alarm clock which causes him to wake up late; as another example in EP008 he physically dispute with AJ about his training methods; and as another example in EP025 he simply throwing the Pokeball at Mankey without thinking, and also trying to retrieve his hat from it on his own effort. I'm simply putting a few significant examples here, as the list is just too big, if I have to list them all it will be like listing all the episodes, because almost every episode you would find Ash being over-energetic where he has to discharge his energy through some activities, whether that is Pokemon battles or helping others or playing or quarrel with other people.
After rewatching, I rather found personality and characteristics of Ash leaning more towards negative than positive. Firstly he is super arrogant (suggested clearly in EP008), always acted like he is forever right and every other people are wrong (e.g. EP008 and EP065). Secondly he was too emotional to the point of unreasonable, always made decisions based on his emotions but very seldomly decided things wisely using his brain (almost throughout the entire show), I also needed to wonder the decisional logic behind his instructions during each battles. Well, if he did possess any wisdom, then he won't be so ignorant and lack of knowledge, willing to learn and take advices from others from the very start. Thirdly he is super self-centred, always think of himself first, Pokemon only came second and any other human characters came third (one should see it in almost every beginning of gyms, up to EP076 where he prefers to eat before healing his Pokemon, even the tear-inducing EP039, he insisted Pikachu to stay with other wild Pikachus despited that Pikachu followed and yell at him to stay, ignoring Pikachu's feeling in the first attempt). But, in case of Pokemon is jeopardized and endangered, he will oppositely be so self-forgetting to the level of sacrifice his own body in order to save Pokemon (In the very first EP001, also EP004, EP026, Snow Way Out!, EP051, and very first Mewtwo Movie). I would not say that is anything bad, but... does he even realized for many times his Pokemons were jeopardized by no one else but Ash himself? The worse is that he would finally learn a lesson only when his Pokemon is severely injured. Therefore such mixture of self-centredness and selflessness seems rather very sarcastic and hypocritical. Ah, speaking of that, his ideology of Pokemon should be treat like friends just made him a super hypocrite, because I just don't see him treat his Pokemon like friends. Really for sure, just look at EP001 he drag Pikachu like an item, and alluded so many times from his battle attitude, and the most significant example is Charizard.
And then regarding on battles, I can only say two words of foolish and impulsive. There is basically no strategies and tactics in any battles, not any preparation before gym matches, he doesn't even have basic Pokemon knowledges required for being a Pokemon Trainer (showed in EP056). If you do have to ask the reason leading to his victory of many matches, it would rather be greatly thanks to the intrinsic strength of his Pokemon themselves. Ash himself didn't contribute much as he seldom trained his Pokemon, almost all the gym matches he just barge in and fight, if loses the first trial the first thing came up in his mind is rather any sort of method which could instantly power-up his Pokemon, or any convenient method to defeat his opponent instantly (Pewter, Saffron, I would kind of include Vermillion as well due to at first Ash was thinking of using Thunderstone instead of training), just not trying to train normally and accumulate battle experience like most normal trainer would do (even in Cinnabar, he wasn't thinking of improving his Pokemon, originally just intended to rematch for another lucky try). Most importantly! he never tried to educate and improve on himself as a trainer, even in that (supposed) two months time before Indigo League, he used 99% of the time played his head off rather than doing actual training. No wonder he was mocked and downplayed by Gary Oak.
In terms of human relationship, as he was being too cocky at start and no considerations and caring towards any other, adding on the fact that he was just a newbie without any achievement, it was really irritating seeing he went haughty as soon as he achieved something, feels like others must then respect him because he achieved something "great" (Good Job AJ in triumph over him in EP008. It was however very disappointing not seeing AJ in Indigo League...). That went a lot better in latter half, but at some occasional times he still shows disrespect towards Brock and Misty, where that subtly showed Ash still thinks he can archieve his goal without any help and assistance from others, a sign showing he was still being arrogant. No wonder Misty was always irritated at Ash throughout the story, not so much in later stage but one could still sense contempt in her attitude towards him. Well Brock was a collected person so he is wise enough to not getting angered by Ash, but being the oldest and taking care of the other two, connive at Ash's unwise imprudent actions just subtly showed the friendship between the two was not that strong as it was assumed by many fans.
But, despite all of these negative character traits he had, there does exist one thing I would praise for as well, which is his righteousness. Whenever he saw things unjust and unrighteous, he would voluntarily poke his nose into it. Whenever he saw someone in need of help, he would tried his best to lend a hand, even the one in need of help is TRio (EP048). Whenever TRio doing villainous deeds, he will battles them to stop them, but when they are not, he won't even bother to hurt them, completely unlike in later sagas where he just beat the three up unarguably without confirming did they did any bad deeds or not. He believed firmly of his ideology and will not be altered by whoever's word despite so many people downplayed him. Yeah, he had magnificient inner fortitude possibly unbreakable and unbendable. ...But, having such great inner strength yet having such personality, that oppositely made his stubbornness more unbreakable. Hence in Ash's case, such strong point is unfortunately adding bonus to his weak point, making his weak point more outstanding.
So, if I have to explain the OS Kanto Ash Ketchum in a simple sentence, that would be a pretentious airhead trying to achieve something he was not worthy to become. Judging from all his actions within the show, despite he is a Pokemon Trainer, but it rather showed what he loved most is merely Pokemon battles, catching came second, training and caring the Pokemon only came at third. As being a protagonist of a kid-friendly adventure story, Ash is really bad and irritating even in the children standard. Also being anime target at children, I can withstand the foolish bullied child Nobita in Doraemon, I can withstand arrogant ones such as Shirobom in Bomberman Jetters, I can withstand the naive ones such as Kirby in Hoshi no Kirby animation, I can withstand the overly hot-blooded Netto of Rockman EXE series. But Ash Ketchum of Pokemon anime, and merely in the very first season...... I can't stand watching.
BTW, as I went through the blogs of Shudo Takeshi, the head scenario writer of Pokemon anime OS Indigo League saga that had already deceased, his original story goal intended for the Pokemon anime was to portray a friendly adventurous world where every children would had dreamed to set out on a journey. Well I would had said such theme did somehow reach to the heart of children (as I was also one of such excited children), but now when I look back from the eyes of an adult spectator, I will now doubt can this theme reach to the heart of children, especially if watching the Pokemon world through the position of Ash Ketchum.
Maybe I'll do another character review for later sagas in the future, but I can't say for sure because this rewatching attempt just greatly wear away my remaining interest for the anime I still kept for all these years. But for now, this is my review of Ash Ketchum during the OS Indigo League saga, from the eye of mine as an adult audience.
======================================================================
BTW, there exist another review of mine about the overall OS Indigo League saga. If one is interested, one is welcome to read.
Last edited:
OS Ash got on my nerves at times with his brash ''I know what im doing'' attitude but what I disliked from past sagas was that he never really felt like The main character of his own show. I feel that's what XY has done differently from the previous sagas. He actually listens to the people around him and his friends look up to him. He still needs to be a bit more patient and knowledgeable of basic things (like all shonen leads) but its a step up from what he used to be.
Ulicies
Mild Monk
Also remember that different episodes portray different periods of time depending on the "story of the day." Yes, the Caterpie episode spanned weeks, but that was in order to show Caterpie's evolutionary process. Other episodes have shown less than a day passing by, and it all depends on the story arc of that episode.
In my opinion, the writers rebooting Ash each series to endlessly chase after the same goals is a symptom of the games' refusal to change its formula. As long as the games will continue to recycle the "8 Badges > Team X > Elite Four" formula, the Anime will be bound by the same mandate.
On-topic:
Ash's competence is wholly dependent on the writers and how they want the storyline to progress. Unfortunately, sometimes the writers will go "Oh we need Team Rocket to take X Pokemon away, so we'll have Ash be duped for the millionth time by their pranks and costume changes" or "We need X Trainer to display something pivotal to the story arc, so we'll have Ash mess up or be completely overwhelmed in the battle for no reason other than this necessity."
It's frustrating to see all manner of consistency thrown out the window depending on the episode's story arc that, 90% of the time, won't have a lasting impact on the characters anyway.
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ThePipeBomb
Member
I've always liked Ash, for me his best charactar development was D&P. I think the reason so many people are against him was because of the way he was presented in B&W.
However I think X&Y is taking him in the right direction and hopefully more people can start liking Ash.
However I think X&Y is taking him in the right direction and hopefully more people can start liking Ash.
wanderist
Someone
I have my problems with Ash, but I don't think he's as bad as people say he is. It is true that he like, never changes and he never wins any leagues. I don't really blame that on him though. Overall he seems to be a good trainer, despite some of his questionable decisions. My main issue with him is how he leaves most of his Pokemon with Oak and never uses them again. I love Pikachu and all, but still. I would probably like him more if it weren't for that, and maybe if I wasn't so easily annoyed by his childishness. I like him more in DP and XY though.
Bguy7
The Dragon Lord
I always see a lot of people saying that they wish Ash would take his old Pokemon with him. The problem with that though is that if he just kept his same team from region to region, we'd never get to see him catch new Pokemon, and his old Pokemon would quickly become overpowered (it's one thing to say a Pikachu can be both weak and strong depending on how far into a region Ash is, but something would be wrong if Charizard started to lose to Geodude). He could switch his team around, but we all saw how well that worked out in Unova. Think about it: let's say Ash is fighting the stereotypical Rock-Type gym as his first in the region. They can make it a challenge for him by having him use only new Pokemon, or he can just call in Torterra and Sceptile and completely annihilate the gym. The show just wouldn't work if Ash kept all of his Pokemon.
Bill Cipher
__
The writers have no problems making the gyms, even the early ones, stronger than they're supposed to be. An example is when Roark's Cranidos evolved before his rematch with Ash so that Turtwig wouldn't destroy it like he did the first time. If Ash used his best Pokemon, the gym leaders can just use theirs.
The show would still work; the actual reason why Ash doesn't bring his old Pokemon with him is because there needs to be space to advertise the new ones.
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