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Is Ash's Journeys team now just his outright 6 strongest Pokemon?

Leonhart

Imagineer
His team at the moment is arguably one of his most consistent ones, but I don't consider all of his current Pokemon to be his strongest ones. I might not be a huge fan of Lizardon, Goukazaru, or Jukain, but I believe those three would wipe the floor with some of Satoshi's current Pokemon.
 

cricketlaxwolvesbandy

2022 STANLEY CUP CHAMPS!
I would argue that Ash Greninja scales above his Journey team.
Firstly, Ash Greninja is a rather special pokemon compared to most of Ash's team. Some reason for the same being,

1) This is the first of Ash's aces that have been outright released (Without any callback option).

2) Additionally, it is the first of Ash's aces to have a unique connection/bond with Ash which you could argue also surpassed Ash's bond with "Pikachu" in a way, due to the entire nature of the transformation and how it worked. The real reason I think why it wasn't Oak'd and was left in Kalos.

3) It is a special phenomenon entirely exclusive to Ash which nobody else in the world has.

4) It is the first of Ash's Pokemon to actually bring him close to achieving Elite Four-tier feats in his career as a trainer which was a very big deal before Journeys.

5) In the Lucario training episode, we see Greninja effortlessly clown Lucario and the latter was strong enough to defeat Raihan's ace in its base form after a short training session with Greninja.


Given this special status of AG and its performance in the recent episode, I would like to think that AG is arguably Ash's strongest Pokemon. I think Pikachu and Lucario are strong contenders to take this title, but this would depend on their feats in the upcoming Master Class tournament. If Pikachu defeats Mega Metagross and goes on to defeat Leon's Charizard (On it's own), or Lucario goes on to defeat Cynthia's Garchomp and Leon's Charizard, this might change.

As for the rest of Ash's base team (Including the rest of his aces), I'm going to go against the rest of the commenters and say that they are a cut below his Journey's team.
Firstly, I believe that the reserves will be scaled exponentially from their previous feats and will be good enough to achieve Elite four tier/Regional Champion tier feats (Based on Ash's progression), however, based on a particular reason in "Episode 114", I am going to argue that his Journey's team are a cut above.

When Paul and Ash decided to battle, the former laid down a condition that he wanted Ash to only use the Pokemon that he would be using in the Master Class Tournament. Knowing Paul's character, to me, this suggested that he wanted to test Ash's best pokemon.

If Paul just wanted to train Ash, he would've just said 3v3 battle with no exchanges and used the aces of the MC. However, the fact that he explicitly stated that condition, suggests that Paul wanted to test Ash at his best and the fact that Ash used his Journey's team, suggests that they are a cut above his regular reserves (With the exception of AG).
First to do E4 feats?
Laughs in Charizard, Pikachu, Snorlax, and Sceptile
Ash-Greninja Mastered wasn’t that impressive besides somehow clowning on Diantha when it wasn’t fully mastered
Yes it went toe to toe with MCX but it doesn’t matter since it lost
 

DayQuil95

Well-Known Member
Can you say that knowing that Sceptile is the only known Pokemon that beat Tobias' Darkrai?
I mean, his feat against Darkrai was extremely impressive, but Charizard straight-up 1v1ed Articuno, Infernape was recently shown to be relative to the JN team, Greninja is built differently, and Lucario is steamrolling through PWC. I definitely would include Sceptile to be relative in strength to the likes of Infernape, Greninja, Charizard, and Lucario, but being slightly behind the top dogs of the top dogs only.
 

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
I didn’t mention it because - even though it’s one of the biggest feats any of Ash’s Pokémon had done until then - I would be quoted by at least 6 people that would argue that Diantha wasn’t taking the battle serious and that she was just testing Ash.

But I agree with you, it’s one of his best feats.

I totally agree, I think that's an underrated feat
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
First to do E4 feats?
Laughs in Charizard, Pikachu, Snorlax, and Sceptile
Ash-Greninja Mastered wasn’t that impressive besides somehow clowning on Diantha when it wasn’t fully mastered
Yes it went toe to toe with MCX but it doesn’t matter since it lost
How exactly did Charizards, Pikachu's, Snorlax and Sceptile achieve "Elite four-tier feats"?
Scott claimed that the "Battle Frontier" were as strong as the "E4".
However, we see multiple trainers have conquered the Battle Frontier before but more importantly, based on how strong Reggie was and Ash/Paul battles against actual E4 members and regional champions in Sinnoh etc, they still paled in comparison.

None of Ash's previous pokemon had officially achieved an E4 tier feet.

On the other hand, we see Alain's Charizard defeat an actual E4 signature ace in a battle. We also see Ash Greninja hold its own against Mega Charizard X in an all out battle (With the Latter being a confirmed E4 tier pokemon).

Now you can use headcanon and argue what E4 tier is but the only objective way to classify something as E4 tier is if the person is an Elite four member or the trainer owns a Pokemon that Beat/held its own against an Elite four member.
 

GLTSRY

Unova Ace Oshawott
The majority of the BF are mid to high gym leader level at best who were hyped up by Scott.

Spencer, Annabel and Brandon are the only ones I’d feel comfortable placing in the same tier as Volkner. You could make an argument for Brandon being close to E4 level, but his team - besides his Regis - was really underwhelming, so even that is highly debatable.
 

ImBeVillain

No more six members
Idk, but i don't feeling more with JN team are best team, cause writers made less screentimes for them, maybe that was fault of financial problem thank to coronavirus crisis and they changed much story after first year episodes.
Atleast i will say - Gengar
G-MAX Gengar is true ace Ash's pokemon more than mega lucario.
 

cricketlaxwolvesbandy

2022 STANLEY CUP CHAMPS!
How exactly did Charizards, Pikachu's, Snorlax and Sceptile achieve "Elite four-tier feats"?
Scott claimed that the "Battle Frontier" were as strong as the "E4".
However, we see multiple trainers have conquered the Battle Frontier before but more importantly, based on how strong Reggie was and Ash/Paul battles against actual E4 members and regional champions in Sinnoh etc, they still paled in comparison.

None of Ash's previous pokemon had officially achieved an E4 tier feet.

On the other hand, we see Alain's Charizard defeat an actual E4 signature ace in a battle. We also see Ash Greninja hold its own against Mega Charizard X in an all out battle (With the Latter being a confirmed E4 tier pokemon).

Now you can use headcanon and argue what E4 tier is but the only objective way to classify something as E4 tier is if the person is an Elite four member or the trainer owns a Pokemon that Beat/held its own against an Elite four member.
Snorlax- Beat two frontier brains Pokémon in the same battle singlehandedly
Charizard- Defeated an Articuno
Pikachu- Defeated Brandon’s Regice and tied with Tobias’s Latios, beat two of Alain’s pseudos and did significant damage to Charizard while damaged itself IN THE SAME BATTLE
Sceptile- Beat a Darkrai that otherwise swept through the ENTIRE SINNOH LEAGUE
 

Ignition

World’s biggest Incineroar stan
Wouldn't call them his strongest but would say they're up there. Pokémon like Charizard, Snorlax, Sceptile, Infernape, Krookodile, Greninja, and Lycanroc/Incineroar would at least give them a run for their money.
 

Ragnarok4

The Unova League is better than the Masters 8
So I think it will be the Top Final

1. Z-Move PEAKachu

2. Genkidama M-Lucario

3. Ash Greninja

4. BLAZEApe

5. Charizard

6. G-Max Gengar

7. Dragonite

8. Dracovish // Sirfetch
 

Ragnarok4

The Unova League is better than the Masters 8
First to do E4 feats?
Laughs in Charizard, Pikachu, Snorlax, and Sceptile
Ash-Greninja Mastered wasn’t that impressive besides somehow clowning on Diantha when it wasn’t fully mastered
Yes it went toe to toe with MCX but it doesn’t matter since it lost
Greninja >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena
 

Joltik-Kid

Simple Takes & Truths
I mean, Ash is Ash... he's always done this silly thing where he believes it's unfair to whatever his current team is if he doesn't have them follow thru. The rare exception being the Johto League and I guess Battle Frontier. Lily of the Valley Conference, maybe, but the main team was used against the main competition. Anyway, they all gotta be pretty powerful... they're facing stiff competition in the form of Champions lol

Outside of Pikachu vs Charizard debates, I've never seen a Pokémon more wanked to this day than Ash's Greninja... it's literal best feat, aka a conclusive fight, was beating Sawyer's Mega Sceptile (which has no special feat of its own outside of being a Mega Pokemon). Greninja never carried a battle like Charizard and Infernape, never beat any Legendary Pokémon like Pikachu, Charizard, and Sceptile, and had to exclusively rely on its pseudo Mega form to even perform unless it had help from its teammates. If they knew full well Alain was gonna beat Ash, they never should've did that BS Diantha fight. That incomplete form lost every major fight onward... everyone of those Pokémon not being a Champion Pokémon.
 

cricketlaxwolvesbandy

2022 STANLEY CUP CHAMPS!
I mean, Ash is Ash... he's always done this silly thing where he believes it's unfair to whatever his current team is if he doesn't have them follow thru. The rare exception being the Johto League and I guess Battle Frontier. Lily of the Valley Conference, maybe, but the main team was used against the main competition. Anyway, they all gotta be pretty powerful... they're facing stiff competition in the form of Champions lol

Outside of Pikachu vs Charizard debates, I've never seen a Pokémon more wanked to this day than Ash's Greninja... it's literal best feat, aka a conclusive fight, was beating Sawyer's Mega Sceptile (which has no special feat of its own outside of being a Mega Pokemon). Greninja never carried a battle like Charizard and Infernape, never beat any Legendary Pokémon like Pikachu, Charizard, and Sceptile, and had to exclusively rely on its pseudo Mega form to even perform unless it had help from its teammates. If they knew full well Alain was gonna beat Ash, they never should've did that BS Diantha fight. That incomplete form lost every major fight onward... everyone of those Pokémon not being a Champion Pokémon.
Based. Ash-Greninja should have of had way better feats and is overrated because of its form (then again base Greninja shouldn’t be a slouch either)
 

xtroDe

Member
Probably yes - but again power level in this anime is never consistent lol
Ash-Greninja is probably the strongest mon Ash might have owned, he even beat Lucario - this series' ace in it's BASE form but what do you know, Mega Lucario is fighting on par with Dynamax Charizard (based on OP) - the same Charizard who beat MCX in his BASE FORM. Should I remind you which mon defeated AG in Kalos League?

So yeah, just don't bother lmao it's never gonna make sense, im just happy to see gengar and dragonite being used, some of my fav mons from gen 1 i wanted ash to own sometime in the future - its literally fan wish fulfillment and im all here for it
 

GLTSRY

Unova Ace Oshawott
Probably yes - but again power level in this anime is never consistent lol
Ash-Greninja is probably the strongest mon Ash might have owned, he even beat Lucario - this series' ace in it's BASE form but what do you know, Mega Lucario is fighting on par with Dynamax Charizard (based on OP) - the same Charizard who beat MCX in his BASE FORM. Should I remind you which mon defeated AG in Kalos League?

So yeah, just don't bother lmao it's never gonna make sense, im just happy to see gengar and dragonite being used, some of my fav mons from gen 1 i wanted ash to own sometime in the future - its literally fan wish fulfillment and im all here for it
The funniest instance of power scaling in this series:

Base Lucario is capable of one-shotting G-Max Duraludon, who could keep up with G-Max Charizard, but gets crushed by base Greninja, who as AG couldn’t defeat MC-X, who, as a much stronger version, was obliterated by G-Max Charizard.
 

xtroDe

Member
The funniest instance of power scaling in this series:

Base Lucario is capable of one-shotting G-Max Duraludon, who could keep up with G-Max Charizard, but gets crushed by base Greninja, who as AG couldn’t defeat MC-X, who, as a much stronger version, was obliterated by G-Max Charizard.
shits wild man, its like ash was super disappointed in lucario after greninja ep, EV trained the **** outta him, overfed him rare candies and what do you know, hes beating GM duraludon in base form

all in the span of 2-3 episodes, so when ppl say this series suffers from not showing the training montage i have to agree, lucario will be the strongest mon but its understandable if ppl don't feel like he's earned it
 
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