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Is Ash's league regression because of his vow renewal at the end of DP?

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dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter.

It's obvious that Ash did worse this league, is because the writers stopped giving a crap, did a horrible job with the league, for the sole purpose of putting Team Plasma and N into the anime before 6th generation comes out.

So it doesn't matter if Ash regressed or not, or if he's worse than DP Ash or not.

Because in the end the only thing the writers care about, or perhaps those who have power than the writers, the only thing they care about is a next big thing. Anything else just gets shoved under the bus as usual.
 
O

OceanicLanturn

Non non non!
BW Ash reeks to me as a 'Ash who lost all his memory and restarts as a newbie' character. Honestly, the writers spent from OS to DP to build up the mature character, and BOOM! Shoves it under the bus like nothing happened.

I'm not too bothered by him 'regressing', but what I hate the most is how he became a total immature and dumb 10-year-old kid after DP191 finished.

I'm really bothered about the evolution too. 2 base starters is just TOO much... I also don't like how they handled evolution this saga, but that's for another thread.
 
Blue Saturday

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
No.

Satoshi beat the same amount of challengers in the Isshu League that he beat in the Shinou League, the Shinou League was just smaller. The "ranking" is cosmetic if anything.

Satoshi is Satoshi.
 
K

Kokatsu

Well-Known Member
CyberCubed said:
DP191 was actually the series finale of Pokemon. Everything from Kanto through Johto and AG ended with DP's 191 episode. That was the true finale of Ash's story.

What we're watching now is just an alternate version of Ash set in a different timeline that likes to sweep most previous stuff under the rug.
Click to expand...

Ash really has a bunch of clones from his cloning machine who do all his chores and make sure the coffee is done and when they misbehave he sends them to the Feraligator pit. This is wwhy he nevers ages. Original Ash died years ago and he just has a bunch of 10 yr Ash clones. It all makes sense now!
 
L

lokoduro

Shinji Time!
Doryuzu said:
No.

Satoshi beat the same amount of challengers in the Isshu League that he beat in the Shinou League, the Shinou League was just smaller. The "ranking" is cosmetic if anything.

Satoshi is Satoshi.
Click to expand...

Wait what?Sinnoh had 64 competitors,Isshu had 64 competitors.(About this topic,did anyone notice there were STILL 64 competitors after first round in the big screen? xDDD).
His Isshu challenges were all about 3 rookie rivals.I don't know about Kotetsu and Kenyan,but Shooti was having his first league.
Kenyan seemed to be doing his first league as well.And after the registration and 5 pokemon fail I highly doubt Kotetsu was an experienced league battler.
And the writers put a lot of effort on showing how Satoshi Have to take a huge beating before winninf .Honestly Shooti probably deserved to win,but then it would be ridiculous for Satoshi to lose in the first round.
And honestly,aside from that Lucario and Hydreigon,does Kotetsu has anything else to offer?
IMO,he had no experience as a trainer and yes had 2 pokémons.He sent two suicide pokemon with no reason at all -_- I mean,I've seen that already but at least the trainer had some hidden strategy behind the suicide run.

So I really don't know how is that similar to facing someone that gets experience from Contests and Gym like Nando/Naoshi or that nerd strategist Conway/Kouhei.And this is just the beginning.It would be sufficient challenge to overcome the "challenges" he faced on Isshu.Then there is Paul/Shinji to finish this off.How does that even compare to any battle he faced in Isshu?

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Also someone said about evolution,and yes,evolution post-beating seems to be the way to succeed in Isshu,isn't it?

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Like some people here,I feel that original Satoshi ended on DP now we have a new one in a different dimension.Maybe we can expect a french Satoshi to come next lol.
As for the question itself,I really don't know why renewing a vow would make him look dumber.It is just NOT an acceptable excuse for a reboot :/

EDIT: (About first post "symbolize" thing) - If there is something symbolic of a reboot it is the almost identical scene post league where Satoshi visits the League stadium.(Like Kanto one)
 
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Vernikova

Vernikova

Champion
The writers just suck. Oh? An in-universe reason? Ash's Pokemon probably sucked.
 
jdgjordan

jdgjordan

The chosen Snorlax
Don't worry he will win the next one then become a master the meet his dad...o and kiss misty all in the next season.
 
Rohanator

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
lokoduro said:
Wait what?Sinnoh had 64 competitors,Isshu had 64 competitors.(About this topic,did anyone notice there were STILL 64 competitors after first round in the big screen? xDDD).
His Isshu challenges were all about 3 rookie rivals.I don't know about Kotetsu and Kenyan,but Shooti was having his first league.
Kenyan seemed to be doing his first league as well.And after the registration and 5 pokemon fail I highly doubt Kotetsu was an experienced league battler.
And the writers put a lot of effort on showing how Satoshi Have to take a huge beating before winninf .Honestly Shooti probably deserved to win,but then it would be ridiculous for Satoshi to lose in the first round.
And honestly,aside from that Lucario and Hydreigon,does Kotetsu has anything else to offer?
IMO,he had no experience as a trainer and yes had 2 pokémons.He sent two suicide pokemon with no reason at all -_- I mean,I've seen that already but at least the trainer had some hidden strategy behind the suicide run.

So I really don't know how is that similar to facing someone that gets experience from Contests and Gym like Nando/Naoshi or that nerd strategist Conway/Kouhei.And this is just the beginning.It would be sufficient challenge to overcome the "challenges" he faced on Isshu.Then there is Paul/Shinji to finish this off.How does that even compare to any battle he faced in Isshu?

----
Also someone said about evolution,and yes,evolution post-beating seems to be the way to succeed in Isshu,isn't it?

----

Like some people here,I feel that original Satoshi ended on DP now we have a new one in a different dimension.Maybe we can expect a french Satoshi to come next lol.
As for the question itself,I really don't know why renewing a vow would make him look dumber.It is just NOT an acceptable excuse for a reboot :/

EDIT: (About first post "symbolize" thing) - If there is something symbolic of a reboot it is the almost identical scene post league where Satoshi visits the League stadium.(Like Kanto one)
Click to expand...
The Unova league had 128 competitors.

Anyway, I do think it's totally realistic to sometimes place lower than before and as for why the writers did it...eh, I dunno.

Ash is Ash, he may not seem as serious or mature all the time as in DP but he doesn't really have a reason to be as there's no rival like Paul for him this time. He's still just as nice, passionate and overall has the same personality(a little more lively perhaps) even though they haven't had him show as much skill as in DP. He's Ash.
 
Blue Saturday

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
lokoduro said:
Wait what?Sinnoh had 64 competitors,Isshu had 64 competitors.
Click to expand...

Like Rohanite said, the Higaki Conference had 128 entries. Shinou League had 64. He battled the same amount of trainers to get the position he got. If the Higaki Conference had the same amount of competitors as the Suzuran Conference Satoshi would had gotten the ranking of Top 4 like he did before in Shinou.
 
moneylesswario

moneylesswario

Gone But Not Forgotten
No, I don't think it has to do with the vow renewal (hasn't he always wanted to be a Pokemon Master?), I think it has more to do with the writers just rushing it. I realize that I shouldn't expect him to place higher each time (especially considering the Unova League had more participants, but it still feels like a slap in the face.
 
L

lokoduro

Shinji Time!
Doryuzu said:
Like Rohanite said, the Higaki Conference had 128 entries. Shinou League had 64. He battled the same amount of trainers to get the position he got. If the Higaki Conference had the same amount of competitors as the Suzuran Conference Satoshi would had gotten the ranking of Top 4 like he did before in Shinou.
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I was pretty sure it was 64.But seeing the screen now,I probably counted each battle as a competitor in the first screen -_-
Still I don't see how this superficial analysis determinates how good he was in the league.It would also mean that Johto one was the best since it was about 256 and he was Top 8.
So even if he challenged the same amout,the way he battled wasn't in the same state as Sinnoh.
 
jdgjordan

jdgjordan

The chosen Snorlax
It also did not help the writing in DP was so good there was no way they could be beat it next arc so there only answer.......REBOOT BUTTON. well half reboot as Ash still has all his Pokemon and Dawn showed up kinda like DC comics reboot some stuff in the past still happened but other stuff is forgotten/wiped out.
 
moneylesswario

moneylesswario

Gone But Not Forgotten
I didn't find the DP writing good (which made this feel even more like a slap in the face). :p
 
G

Graham Aker

Well-Known Member
Doryuzu said:
Satoshi is Satoshi.
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No.

The Ash of BW this is quite different from the Ash of DP, or AG as a character in general. Not really sure how you're so blind to that, or just refuse to admit it. XP

Also, he got a lower ranking and lost to a non legendary-trainer that didn't need a full team. Therefore, that is a regression.
 
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H

Hero of Ideals

Banned
Graham Aker said:
No.

The Ash of BW this is quite different from the Ash of DP, or AG as a character in general. Not really sure how you're so blind to that, or just refuse to admit it. XP

Also, he got a lower ranking and lost to a non legendary-trainer who used that didn't need a full team. Therefore, that is a regression.
Click to expand...

He is still the same person just becuase how he acted in one saga over another. And he is not blind and it's not regression. Not everyone will be good at everything even with experince, in real life we mess up all the time, but does that make us bad people? No it doesn't.
 
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