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Is Choice Scarf the best item in the game?

Discussion in 'Older Gens' started by HyperBeamDreams, Dec 30, 2012.

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  1. HyperBeamDreams

    HyperBeamDreams New Member

    I'm starting to think so. If you go to the Smogon rate my team section and you see a team that doesn't have a choice scarf Pokemon people will literaly say that the lack of a scarfer is the team's biggest weakness and that your team won't get very far....which brings me to my next point. Is competitive battling currently centralized around Choice Scarf? What do you think.
     
  2. Choice Scarf users are usually only necessary for offensive teams as a method of checking faster offensive threats. It's not really a centralizing item. Most teams will carry just one Choice Scarf user as a "glue" to keep the team from being steamrolled by whatever offensive threat they might face, perhaps even a second Scarf user depending on what the team needs. Generally speaking, items such as Leftovers and Life Orbs tend to be more common than Choice Scarfs, and defensive teams usually use their bulk and resistances to check offensive threats and as such do not need a Scarf user.

    As far as the best item, I'd say that the Choice Scarf is definitely higher in the ranks due to its great utility, but I'd say that title goes to the Leftovers due to its universally useful effect and no drawbacks. There's virtually no Pokemon that doesn't benefit from Leftovers, as opposed to Choice items, Life Orb, etc.
     
  3. HyperBeamDreams

    HyperBeamDreams New Member

    Couldn't you argue that most Pokemon would prefer life orb or choice scarf considering that the game is centered on offense? I read somewhere that Leftover is more suited for stall pokemon and it makes sense because they need the HP more than a sweeper would
     
  4. LizardonX

    LizardonX Banned

    No, how could it be the best item in the game when there's no reason to use 6 of it on one team? The only item that has ever seen such levels of dominance is leftovers.
     
  5. Depends on the circumstances. Some bulky offensive Pokemon like Landorus-T greatly appreciate the added survivability of the Leftovers to help them switch in and out and take advantage of their resistances more effectively. Even past that, Choice Scarfs aren't for everyone. Keep in mind that while they give you a useful speed boost, they trap you into one move with no boost in power. Even offensive Pokemon that care little about taking hits might prefer a Choice Band/Scarf, or as you suggested, a Life Orb. But again, it varies from Pokemon to Pokemon.
     
  6. HyperBeamDreams

    HyperBeamDreams New Member

    Well you also have to think of it like this.

    The lack of a choice choice scarf will apparently put your team in serious danger. Nobody will tell you they're concerned for your team on smogon if it lacks a pokemon with leftovers

    It's more about the drawback of not having it on your team.
     
  7. People will rarely criticize your team simply because you do not have a Scarf user, and if they do, they're being dumb. People will criticize your team, however, if you have a weakness to a particular Pokemon. Often times, someone might suggest that you use a particular Scarf user to check the Pokemon in question among other things. But again, this is mainly just for offensive teams. On a defensive team, someone might suggest that you run specially defensive Jirachi to keep Tornadus-T in check if you were weak to it before. However, that Jirachi set may not fit well on a faster paced offensive team, so they might instead suggest you run a Choice Scarf Jirachi to check Tornadus-T, take a hit once in a while if necessary, and still have some decent offensive presence. No team is required to have a Choice Scarf user, but for many teams that's just what it would take to cover your weaknesses.
     
  8. HyperBeamDreams

    HyperBeamDreams New Member

    Ok well look at it this way

    You say Choice Scarf can help cover weaknesses...can something like leftovers do that? I'm pretty sure Pokemon with leftovers are still weak to the same things, wile giving a pokemon a scarf makes a much bigger difference. A Garchomp with leftovers still loses to Jolteon with hidden power ice. With a scarf, Garchomp doesn't lose to Jolteon anymore. Most items give very margiannal assitance to a Pokemon and Choice Scarf is one of the few that give more than that....it can can turn an unfavorable matchup into a favorable one.

    Even the smogon article says speed stats are less revered because of it. I'd say that's a pretty big impact for an item to have.
     
  9. Ghosts of the Forums

    Ghosts of the Forums Who Ya Gonna Call?

    smogon smogon smogon. why don't you stop taking all your information from smogon, and go out there and try something. i agree, scarf is a good item, but lefties are probably the best, as the provide a way of healing to walls that lack healing otherwise, among other reasons.
     
  10. Rakurai

    Rakurai Well-Known Member

    It's seriously annoying to me that I have to be afraid of allowing my frailer Pokemon to attack almost anything with a base speed stat that's within around 50 points of their's because of it. I honestly think the game would be better off without it, personally, because it's just way too easy to score surprise KOs with it, and when you're limited to only three Pokemon in random WiFi matches, that loss of a Pokemon has a much bigger impact.

    I don't know if I'd consider it the best item, but I think it's probably had the biggest impact on battling out of all of them.
     
  11. Chapter

    Chapter hello, im back sorta

    I'd say Black Sludge and Leftovers. Also Toxic Orb, because of certain properties.

    -The Leftovers for its healing, obviously.
    -BlackSludge makes Poisons like Gengar a force to be reckoned with. It works as a healer, and like I said a second ago, on a Poke like Gengar, they could trick or switcheroo there way to victory.
    -Toxic Orb for Poision Healers, Trickers, and Switcherooers. Also, if not a Poison or Steel type, therefore vulnerable to poisoning, then it doesnt lower there attack.

    I'd say leftovers probably take the win, but IDRK. Choice scarf is definitly not the best. You can destroy a Spd Poke with Priority or things like ToxicOrb+Guts+Facade. Also, we must remember that although the CScarf gives huge speed, it doesnt guarantee ull go first. Plus, there is (of course) the penalty of using only one move. Trickers or Switcherooers with choice items are destroyed by protect detect and substitute.

    Really this is just a long opinion with spelling mistakes. XD
     
  12. Choice items aren't the best really, I'd say Leftovers or Life Orb.
     
  13. shadow_burnt

    shadow_burnt HEAD BUTT GO!

    It really depends on what you are doing. Obviously if you have the strength but not the speed, that is the best. However, if you just want to use varied attacks then obviously not.
     
  14. HyperBeamDreams

    HyperBeamDreams New Member

    That's why always a good idea to have good resistances on your team so Scarfers won't have their way with you.

    But sometimes people do choose the weirdest candidates for Choice Scarf just to be an ***, so I can sympathize with you there.

    And I definitely agree that it had the biggest impact of battling. Some pokemon wouldn't even be usabale in certain tiers if Choice Scarf didn't exist.
     
  15. Ultimate Champion

    Ultimate Champion 瞞天過海

    Choice Scarf is a rather peculiar item. Contrary to what some people may have said in the posts above, I actually do believe that having a Choice Scarf Pokémon is pretty much a necessity for just about any competent team, regardless of whether it is offensive or defensive, as so many threats exist that even the most defensively-oriented of teams cannot possibly deal with even the vast majority of them using walls along, at least from my experience, so pretty much all teams will invariably need to depend on revenge-killing at some point or another. In fact, I personally believe that Choice Scarf is the one and only item which almost always needs to be found in a good team.

    However, strangely enough, I do not think that this makes Choice Scarf the best item, as while I see having it in a team to be almost a necessity for its success, I find that having two or more Pokémon in the same team holding this item is actually detrimental to its success, as when they are locked into the wrong move, Pokémon holding this item tend to give ample opportunities for set-up sweepers and users of entry hazards to come in against them and begin boosting or laying down entry hazards, especially considering the fact that Choice Scarf Pokémon do not receive Attack or Special Attack boosts. The debilitating disadvantages of using two or more Choice Scarf Pokémon in the same team are especially apparent when one is facing a stall team, as against such teams, many Pokémon heavily favor either the 1.5x power boost of Choice Band and Choice Specs, or the ability to freely switch attacks, as at least one of the aforementioned is often necessary in order to break walls. In fact, along with possibly Choice Band and Choice Specs, I believe that Choice Scarf is the only item which shouldn't be found more than once in a good team.

    As for the best item, I personally think that it is Leftovers, as both offensive and defensive Pokémon alike are able to benefit from it. In one extremely successful Übers team of mine, I even use Leftovers over Choice Scarf on Palkia of all Pokémon, as I think Choice Scarf is incredibly overrated on this Pokémon due to the fact that Ferrothorn can easily come into it and set entry hazards or use Leech Seed or status moves if it is locked into 3/4 of its moves (and the only move with which Choice Scarf Palkia can actually touch Ferrothorn is one which it would not want to be locked into in the rain, so the user of a Choice Scarf Palkia would be hesitant to switch Palkia into Kyogre and then Fire Blast the opponent's Ferrothorn switch-in, something I often do with my Leftovers Palkia, as such a move usually puts me at a great advantage in battle), as well as the fact that Arceus-Normal, by far the deadliest sweeper in the entire game, can easily set up on it when it is locked into any move barring a Water-type attack in the rain (having 100 base Speed, and therefore the ability to revenge-kill Dragon Dance Rayquaza is not a good enough excuse to put Choice Scarf on Palkia in my opinion, as Terrakion, a Choice Scarfer holder that can revenge-kill Swords Dance Rayquaza and much more importantly Arceus-Normal can also do that, and the same applies to Choice Scarf Genesect, which can also revenge-kill Swords Dance Rayquaza, Mewtwo, Latias and Latios, and the unbelievably useful Multiscale Lugia also exists to counter any Rayquaza anyway). Not only do I think that having the freedom to change attacks is extremely valuable for a Pokémon like Palkia whose greatest strength is its awesome offensive coverage, but having Leftovers recovery, in addition to Magic Bounce support in the form of Espeon to prevent it from being weakened by entry hazards with every switch-in, allows it to check and hold off the extremely dangerous Kyogre for a significantly long time throughout a match, while still being able to easily threaten Ferrothorn as previously-mentioned, unlike Latias and Arceus-Grass, the other two most common Kyogre counters, which easily give Ferrothorn free opportunities to set up entry hazards.
     
  16. HyperBeamDreams

    HyperBeamDreams New Member

    Very interesting POV. Agreed wholeheartedly with the first paragraph. I've seen high ranked ladder teams with like 3 scarfers though so I don't think it's THAT detrimental.

    As for what the best item is, maybe there is no best item, but an elite group of items. And Choice Scarf is definitely in it.
     
  17. jireh the provider

    jireh the provider Video Game Designer

    Choice items. I hate those items big time. Why, I know the high risk and high reward aspect. But most of the time, my enemies easily get lucy against me. But whenever I use one, I get the consequential aftermath most of the time.

    This I why I envy Choice Item abusers.

    The best is Left overs and Life orb definitely. But I still like acrobatics + Flying Gem combo.
     
  18. Dragonicwari

    Dragonicwari Artistically angry

    Alright, guys, there is no universally best item for every mon ever. Some are definitely better than others (ex rocky helmet is better than sticky barb) but just like everything else in Pokemon, every item has its uses. Choice scar may look great on a landorus, however a snorlax would never want that equipped. Also, don't forget about trick room where a scarf is detrimental. For all those saying leftovers can be used on virtually anything, your obviously forgetting about suicide leads, FEAR, torrent/blaze/overgrowth, and moves such as reversal (all of those you don't want leftovers for). As for life orb, often times life orb will kill you, for your enemy.

    Also hyperbeamdreams o, I'd like you to tell me a single Pokemon that couldn't be used in whatever tier it's in without a choice scarf? I highly Doug there is a single one
     
  19. HyperBeamDreams

    HyperBeamDreams New Member

    Well the best example I can think of right now is genesect. The pokemon that was too overpowered for OU and got sent to ubers recently. In ubers, Genesect can counter top threats such as Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, and Darkrai thanks to choice scarf. Without it, gene is pretty useless against them. Almost nobody uses genesect in ubers without a scarf because it isn't viable in ubers without one.
     
  20. Witch of 'Cos

    Witch of 'Cos i love the pee pees

    Flygon in OU last gen. Sure, you could use it with a CB for shock value, but there was almost always a better choice for the job that this would accomplish. At the end of 4th gen OU, Flygon was arguably one of the top scarfers in the game, yet was effectively never seen in the tier without the item.
     
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