Is God Valid Anymore?

[Laser Shuckle]

ok, so there's a reason evolution is widely accepted. scientists used to believe in god until darwin came up with a better idea, so you can't say that scientists hate god, because they are just people like us searching for answers. evolution wasn't a theory that someone just pulled out of there ***. the evidence for it has been increasing more and more.

so is God valid anymore? everything we see points to no god. some troubled christians attempt to mix evolution and the bible, a rediculous and futile attempt, as evolution undermines the bible.

anyway here's some things for Religious Folk to ask themselves:

- why is there suffering today? god is all powerful. can't he fix it?

- why is evolution widely accepted?

- what makes your religion different from all others?

- if evolution didn't have anything to do with religion, would you accept it?

discuss

 

[Penguinist Trainer]

- why is there suffering today? god is all powerful. can't he fix it?

Life is supposed to be about trial and error. If god fixed all of humanity's problems, there would be no reason for man to attempt to fix his own problems when he can just ask god for help.

- why is evolution widely accepted?

Evolution is widely accepted, because science is needed for human progress. It is accepted because there is evidence that supports those conclusions.

- what makes your religion different from all others?

There isn't much difference in my religion, I'm a Catholic. It's a little different from other christian religions, and a little more different than non-christian religions.

- if evolution didn't have anything to do with religion, would you accept it?

Yes, only someone who was trapped under a rock wouldn't accept the truth when it is presented right in front of them.

But personally, religion doesn't have to have anything to do with evolution. People still need it, for other reasons. Religion gives us something to turn to during our darkest times. It also gives us a code of morals and ethics to live by. The Bible, just like any MAN-MADE document, has to be taken with a grain of salt. Religion provides us with a guide to help live our lives in the best ways possible.

I know there are people who are probably going to start quoting Bible entries as if they are documented fact, but it is just a book of stories to help guide people in making the correct choices in life.

Although you say that trying to mix religion and science is a futile and ridiculous attempt, but who says it can't be done. I'm one of those people who tries to reconcile the two. For instance, people say it's IMPOSSIBLE that God could create the world in 7 days. Who is to say that 1 day in God's life couldn't be a hundred billion years in ours. I'm just using this as an example.

 

[??????]

Are you attacking religion?

There is no proof for God. There is also no proof against God. So God can never be proven valid or invalid.

- why is there suffering today? god is all powerful. can't he fix it?

God is fixing it. His solution: Christians. God sent down Jesus and established Christianity to send his message to the ends of the Earth.

Some suffering God doesn't want to fix. He can use suffering as a form of punishment.

- why is evolution widely accepted?

Evolution has little to do with religion.

- what makes your religion different from all others?

All beliefs are different.

- if evolution didn't have anything to do with religion, would you accept it?

It doesn't. I accept it.

 

[Laser Shuckle]

it's pretty obvious that we need help fixing life's problems. is god just going to wait until we doom ourselves to intervene?

and i realize religion can be a guideline, but the idea of it being the truth isn't relevant to science.

and evolution and the bible.... if the bible was the truth it would have said something about evolution and not about god creating life according to it's kinds

man bears god's image and is set apart from animals because of that, something that doesn't work with the evolutionary theory.

The bible explains how god is the god of all things, again this is something that evolution contradicts.

here is a link to an article about how theistic evolution is illogical. they explain it more that i ever could:

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c015.html

 

[Laser Shuckle]

Are you attacking religion?

i'm attacking what is held to be the truth even though it goes against all evidence

There is no proof for God. There is also no proof against God. So God can never be proven valid or invalid.

evolution is proof against god. it explains how life is varied, etc. where does the god of all things come into this? he is reduced to what we do not know.

God is fixing it. His solution: Christians. God sent down Jesus and established Christianity to send his message to the ends of the Earth

how are christians fixing the problem of suffering? ony god if he exists could ever fix such a problem.

Some suffering God doesn't want to fix. He can use suffering as a form of punishment.

punishment for what? sin you are born into? there are people who know nothing of god and his teachings but still suffer. all suffer in some way. how is this justice? justice is balance. suffering for sin you were born into or did not cause isn't.

 

[GhostAnime]

Did Laser Shuckle convert? XD

God is fixing it. His solution: Christians. God sent down Jesus and established Christianity to send his message to the ends of the Earth.

Some suffering God doesn't want to fix. He can use suffering as a form of punishment.

Funny how Christianity has only HELPED kill more people.

 

[Penguinist Trainer]

Once again, I said the Bible has to be taken with a grain of salt. The book is over 2000 years old and has had many many revisions.

The Bible has nothing to do with evolution. This does not mean god had no hand in evolution. The link doesn't help much, because it is saying only one of them could be correct. Compromise is the key to reconciliation. We have to remember that science at one point or another was also a theory. It was only after people of open mind were able to look at things from a new persepective that they were able to discover new things.

I never said the Bible was the only Truth. I said it was a book of stories to be used as a guide. After all, neither the authors of the Bible nor the scientists were at the Beginning of Time, so all that can be presented are theories.

I am aware that the world is full of problems, but like I stated, if God answered our every whim, we would become completely dependent on him.

 

[Laser Shuckle]

Did Laser Shuckle convert? XD

yes for 3 reasons:

- if god existed there would be more evidence, and evolution wouldn't be were it is today.

- if God existed he would never send anyone to hell. this calls into question god's character. infinite punishment for finite sins is not justice. if god is not all good and does not represent true justice he should not be followed and what is said in the bible shouldn't be trusted.

- God does nothing about suffering. the classic arguement is mankinds freewill. yet we are all born into this world subject to adams sin and deserved to be punished. where is mankinds freewill with this matter? i can kill one person to save 1000 but will still be sent to hell regardless for infinite punishment. i hope a day is not like a thousand years when your burning in hell.

true science agrees with the observable evidence. this is what we observe in the bible and in the world.

Funny how Christianity has only HELPED kill more people.

you can say that about alot of things though. it just proves that christianity is no better.

EDIT:

Once again, I said the Bible has to be taken with a grain of salt. The book is over 2000 years old and has had many many revisions.

God's word being revised many times by man? where does it say in the bible that the bible itself should be taken lightly?

The Bible has nothing to do with evolution. This does not mean god had no hand in evolution. The link doesn't help much, because it is saying only one of them could be correct. Compromise is the key to reconciliation. We have to remember that science at one point or another was also a theory. It was only after people of open mind were able to look at things from a new persepective that they were able to discover new things.

the bible is undermined by evolution. the christian site i gave explains how, and why only one or the other has to be correct. how can we consider the bible when science goes against it?

I never said the Bible was the only Truth. I said it was a book of stories to be used as a guide. After all, neither the authors of the Bible nor the scientists were at the Beginning of Time, so all that can be presented are theories.

but the bible says it is the only truth. theories are theories for a reason, they have evidence.

I am aware that the world is full of problems, but like I stated, if God answered our every whim, we would become completely dependent on him.

not every whim, just the most essential. in essence god is letting his corrupt, lost, and ignorant creation run around and create havoc while he sits and watches.

 

[GhostAnime]

May I personally just ask.. what converted you?

Was it more reading in science or... did a family member die?

 

[Pokemonwarrior]

I personally don't believe in any religion but a lot of people do. So yeah a God (what ever one you might believe in) is still Valid as long as people still want him to. Also if god is all powerful and knowing how do you know for arguments sake he didn't just make all the evidence go away? So really there is a some one said before nothing proving gods real or not either way we'll never know till we kick over.

 

[Laser Shuckle]

May I personally just ask.. what converted you?

Was it more reading in science or... did a family member die?

for the 3 reasons i gave. mostly because of God's flawed character. we are all blackmailed into loving him for if we don't, INFINITE punishment.

 

[Penguinist Trainer]

That is very flawed logic, because while a lot of people believe in Heaven, that doesn't mean everyone believes in Hell. Furthermore, the whole point of the New Testament was God's change from a vengeful god to a more benevolent god.

Next I thought this was a debate on evolution. So there really is no point in debating religion, because there is no winner in a religious debate. Everyone will hold onto their beliefs until the day they die, which is why there is such a separation in the many religions.

Finally, whether or not you believe in god, does not mean that evolution is proof against god. Science just helps us explain things in the best way we can understand, but it doesn't mean it is also proof against god.

For instance, for the longest time our scientists thought we were the center of the universe and the sun revolved around us. This is a clear example of how our own ego can get in the way of the truth. This is also true about the writers of the Bible, which is why there are plenty of contradictions in it.

Knowledge in all its forms must be taken with a grain of salt. We will never have one ultimate truth, because everyone has their own version of the truth.

 

[The_Panda]

- if god existed there would be more evidence, and evolution wouldn't be were it is today.

- if God existed he would never send anyone to hell. this calls into question god's character. infinite punishment for finite sins is not justice. if god is not all good and does not represent true justice he should not be followed and what is said in the bible shouldn't be trusted.

- God does nothing about suffering. the classic arguement is mankinds freewill. yet we are all born into this world subject to adams sin and deserved to be punished. where is mankinds freewill with this matter? i can kill one person to save 1000 but will still be sent to hell regardless for infinite punishment. i hope a day is not like a thousand years when your burning in hell.

Perhaps Lazer Shuckle your arguments would refute the existence of an egotistical, fame-hungry God. Additionally they would show that a God intent entirely on eradicating suffering as soon as possible cannot realistically exist (or at least grave doubts are cast on his existence), and the same can be said of a Christian but Buddha-like (is that the right way to phrase it?) deity. Similarly evolution provides a counter-argument to a very specific God, that is, a God that created the world in six days, blah blah blah. However you can't necessarily generalise those specific cases to all gods. What is it in the very concept of God, for example, that necessitates God leaving huge amounts of evidence? Why must a deity necessarily be benevolent, and more importantly why must the deity's idea of benevolence somehow be correlated to our idea of benevolence?

 

[Auraninja]

evolution is proof against god. it explains how life is varied, etc. where does the god of all things come into this? he is reduced to what we do not know.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. There are some of us that believe that the first part of the bible is a bunch of parables. I, myself, believe that God just created space and time and started the Big Bang.

 

[Laser Shuckle]

That is very flawed logic, because while a lot of people believe in Heaven, that doesn't mean everyone believes in Hell. Furthermore, the whole point of the New Testament was God's change from a vengeful god to a more benevolent god.

God does not change.

Next I thought this was a debate on evolution. So there really is no point in debating religion, because there is no winner in a religious debate. Everyone will hold onto their beliefs until the day they die, which is why there is such a separation in the many religions

this is a debate about the validity of god. keep i mind that what we want has no bearing on what is true.

Finally, whether or not you believe in god, does not mean that evolution is proof against god. Science just helps us explain things in the best way we can understand, but it doesn't mean it is also proof against god.

evolution undermines God's word.

For instance, for the longest time our scientists thought we were the center of the universe and the sun revolved around us. This is a clear example of how our own ego can get in the way of the truth. This is also true about the writers of the Bible, which is why there are plenty of contradictions in it.

thus we can not trust the bible.

Knowledge in all its forms must be taken with a grain of salt. We will never have one ultimate truth, because everyone has their own version of the truth.

Truth tends to show itself through evidence.

Perhaps Lazer Shuckle your arguments would refute the existence of an egotistical, fame-hungry God. Additionally they would show that a God intent entirely on eradicating suffering as soon as possible cannot realistically exist (or at least grave doubts are cast on his existence), and the same can be said of a Christian but Buddha-like (is that the right way to phrase it?) deity. Similarly evolution provides a counter-argument to a very specific God, that is, a God that created the world in six days, blah blah blah. However you can't necessarily generalise those specific cases to all gods. What is it in the very concept of God, for example, that necessitates God leaving huge amounts of evidence? Why must a deity necessarily be benevolent, and more importantly why must the deity's idea of benevolence somehow be correlated to our idea of benevolence?

if there is a god everything comes from him, including what is evil and not evil. obviously i can't answer that because the hypothetical god your are refferring to won't allow me to.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. There are some of us that believe that the first part of the bible is a bunch of parables. I, myself, believe that God just created space and time and started the Big Bang.

of course. the bible is what you interpret it to be. you wouldn't be saying that if we actually knew what created those. the fact that god is being reduced to what we are ignorant of shows how unlikely he is. arguments for god are pretty weak as of recent times. when evolution was first conjured up there were many, the fact that they have dwindled shows that god is unlikely.

 

[Tyrant Tar]

some troubled christians attempt to mix evolution and the bible, a rediculous and futile attempt, as evolution undermines the bible.

Wait a minute. How does evolution undermine the whole Bible? Maybe it 'disproves' the first page (not even that, like two sentences), but does the book even say how God created everything? The order of creation is vaguely similar to evolution (life starts in water, then goes to land, and man pops up in the end), but many Christians (like myself) view the creation story as a parable that is supposed to teach us a moral lesson, not a history lesson.

- why is there suffering today? god is all powerful. can't he fix it?

because this is Earth, not Heaven. We can't appreciate joy without pain.

- if evolution didn't have anything to do with religion, would you accept it?

Evolution doesn't really have anything to do with religion. It answers "how", not "why."

 

[Penguinist Trainer]

I love how you completely agree with my point that both science and religion were created by man, so our ego's can get in the way, but you conclude by saying only the Bible cannot be trusted.

I even used an example of how scientists thought that we were the center of the universe.

Who is to say God cannot change? The whole point of God being an abstract being is that he is fluid and can change and evolve as our beliefs change and evolve.

 

[Laser Shuckle]

Wait a minute. How does evolution undermine the whole Bible? Maybe it 'disproves' the first page (not even that, like two sentences), but does the book even say how God created everything? The order of creation is vaguely similar to evolution (life starts in water, then goes to land, and man pops up in the end), but many Christians (like myself) view the creation story as a parable that is supposed to teach us a moral lesson, not a history lesson.

we should focus on what IS said, not about what you interpret could be said. god says in genesis:

"Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them."

from this you can tell that man is unique, something KEY to christianity. evolution says otherwise.

because this is Earth, not Heaven. We can't appreciate joy without pain.

that is an explanation, not an excuse. what kind of god forces us to suffer in order for joy?

Evolution doesn't really have anything to do with religion. It answers "how", not "why."

and the Bible says "how". you can only have one or the other.

I love how you completely agree with my point that both science and religion were created by man, so our ego's can get in the way, but you conclude by saying only the Bible cannot be trusted.

I even used an example of how scientists thought that we were the center of the universe.

Who is to say God cannot change? The whole point of God being an abstract being is that he is fluid and can change and evolve as our beliefs change and evolve.

god himself said:

"I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed. 7 Ever since the time of your forefathers you have turned away from my decrees and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you," says the LORD Almighty.
"But you ask, 'How are we to return?'

look this is the bottom line. the bible is what you make of it. even if every verse was disproved, people would still believe in it. religion will always hide where science cannot yet reach.

you can dismiss parts of the bible as parables, metaphors, etc. whatever. there comes a point where it becomes rediculous.

 

[Penguinist Trainer]

Once again, quoting a book written by man over 2000 years ago. Unless God has spoken to you personally, you really can't claim to know what god has or hasn't said.

 

[Laser Shuckle]

Once again, quoting a book written by man over 2000 years ago. Unless God has spoken to you personally, you really can't claim to know what god has or hasn't said.

and what do we have to go by if not the bible? it is god's word, and your telling me not to argue what god has said? this is basic christian/catholic stuff. the bible was written by man but divinely inspired. you should know this more than others.

once again, the possibility of god existing drops as people twist and construe the bible to fit science and come up with bad arguements. the bible is foundational to alot of religions. who are you to base your lifestyle off a book's ideals then twist other parts of the same book to fit with science?