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Is God Valid Anymore?

Jazzy

Typical
Can you tell me where it is in the Bible? I just want to make sure I can read the entire thing so I can respond to you properly. thanks.[/QUOTE]

Matthew 25:41 - Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Maybe not pitchforks, but if the fire has been "prepared" I doubt it's due to a lack of God.
 

Alloute

Not Banned
This is interesting, but I don't think any of this matters too much.

If you start questioning everything, you will only end up more confused. Eventually you'll start second-guessing every little thing. Some questions should just remain unanswered, right?
 

Jazzy

Typical
This is interesting, but I don't think any of this matters too much.

Of course it matters. The question of whether God exists is possibly the most important question ever.

If you start questioning everything, you will only end up more confused. Eventually you'll start second-guessing every little thing. Some questions should just remain unanswered, right?

Wrong.

My answers in bold.
 

elite_nidoking

Unofficial GymLeader
- why is there suffering today? god is all powerful. can't he fix it?

Why should god fix it? the most deep rooted evil in the world was created by humans themselves. the only peace we can ever hope for is the peace we can create today. lets say god was to intervene... god shows up and what makes everyone evil disappear?... makes it so we dont feel suffering?... makes it so only righteous people are born?... theres so many ways to fix suffering and all involve losing either life or free will. both things that are supposedly given to us. we, us, you, me... the people of earth, it is up to us to pave the way for a better future.

- why is evolution widely accepted?

I'm not so sure, id like to see some statistics on that one before commenting it. but i do read that its part of many school curriculum, however because people in school are from multiple religious persuasions public schools cant advocate the existence of god. thats a major conflict of interest to the teachers, and the school board. it really is up to the home to instill and explain the whatever persuasion of religion you are from

- what makes your religion different from all others?

Roman catholic er... no the priest never touched me though there was an issue with one of those guys. hmmm repressed memories anyone? o.o;

- if evolution didn't have anything to do with religion, would you accept it?

I dunno, it dosent really bother me that there might be a step before man. in the end it all comes down to who you are now. the past is set in stone and rocks and bone but the future is yet to be paved.
 

Hakajin

Obsessive Shipper
Ok, there's a lot here, so I'm just going with the first post and giving my thoughts.

1. Why do evolution and God have to be mutually exclusive? I believe in both. In fact, Darwin was a believer in God himself (well, until his daughter died). He credits a creator, just read The Origin of Species. I think that God created life and let it grow on its own.

2. Suffering is what gives us depth. Without suffering, we wouldn't be able to know what happiness is. It's also necessary for free will. I mean, if you want to do something bad to someone but someone prevented it, the choice would be meaningless to begin with. Without suffering, there's no need to help others and no love. We wouldn't know ourselves, either. We cultivate our personalities and grow through overcoming obstacles. That also makes what we learn more meaningful. To me, it's like God lets us create ourselves. He gives us the raw materials, but we're the artists. Maybe God could prevent suffering, but He couldn't do so without losing all of those effects. Omnipotence is a paradox in that He could never overpower Himself, anyway. But omnipotence is not a prerequisite for the existence of a God, anyway.

3. I think most religions have some amount of truth in them. We're all interpretting the same thing through our own cultures and personal experiences. It's kind of like a person reading a novel. Religions are different because people are different, not because we are.

Already sort of answered the last one. Anyway, I think it's important to understand that God's existence is not dependent upon our preconceived notions of Him. I believe in Him, even though I'm not sure exactly what He is or whether He has a conscious will (long explanation there, not getting into it unless someone asks).

But there are things in this world that just don't fit with a material realist view of the world (don't get me started on NDEs, I will argue it into the ground). The scientific community tries to brush them off with a few explanations (which I make a point to make myself familiar with), and while they work for some cases, they certainly don't for all. I have trouble believing what I want to, and sometimes it seems unlikely that there's more to the world than what we see, but... in the end, I can't find any other answer. We don't have proof in that we can't study it and measure it, but we have strong evidence that doesn't make sense otherwise. People also say there might be other explanations, but some things are just impossible in a completely material world. Well, that's all I've got, unless someone challenges me.
 

PartyPokemon

L or Kira?
Jazzy said:
...The dice is metaphorical. Once again, this all happened by chance.
Chance? So... then it could've been that gravity didn't exist? it could've been that light is incredibly slow, right? It could've been that the stars are freezing cold, right?

No, I'm saying NO ONE from those religions ever bothers to post a debate, and if someone else did, then no one would really know much about it, so the whole thing would die.
Aha. So then I was right in saying that you pick on us because you know pretty much nothing about anyone else.

Of course it is. If you're going to start the world's most powerful religion, surely he could have made only one possible interpretation.
Yeah, but the guy had no intention of making the world's largest religion. He just wanted to change people, to make them better, kinder, and more loving. He didn't wake up one day saying "I'm gonna make a huge religion now!" He just wanted people to be better, to follow his teachings of love and kindness.

Obviously they thought otherwise.
Well, that's their problem.

Because he could see the future and could see the problem would arise in modern society.
Sure he could. But did he have to? Again, he forbids consuming blood in a vampire-type way. At least, that's what I think he meant. But whatever. It's no big deal anyways. If a Witness doesn't think blood transfusions are right, let them think so. But when their child/spouse/friend/etc dies because he "couldn't" get one, they have no right to cry about it.
I lol'd at the Probopass. Now I shall add Munchlax! ;munchlax;
 

LegendaryGarchomp

Well-Known Member
Can you tell me where it is in the Bible? I just want to make sure I can read the entire thing so I can respond to you properly. thanks.

Matthew 25:41 - Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Maybe not pitchforks, but if the fire has been "prepared" I doubt it's due to a lack of God.
[/QUOTE]


It is a place of seperation where you will suffer because you have chosen to seperate yourself from Him (which I see no reason to do so) and you will not be loved (but you won't be hated just not loved) by anyone because of that. So the pain of being seperated from Him can be compared to fire but you won't actually be on fire.
 

Jazzy

Typical
Chance? So... then it could've been that gravity didn't exist? it could've been that light is incredibly slow, right? It could've been that the stars are freezing cold, right?

Yup. But it wasn't.

Aha. So then I was right in saying that you pick on us because you know pretty much nothing about anyone else.

No, I'm saying if I posted a debate on the Hindu beliefs, I doubt there would be a single person supporting them.

Yeah, but the guy had no intention of making the world's largest religion. He just wanted to change people, to make them better, kinder, and more loving. He didn't wake up one day saying "I'm gonna make a huge religion now!" He just wanted people to be better, to follow his teachings of love and kindness.

Of course had an idea. He's God, he can see the future.

Well, that's their problem.

So they're dying ecause God was too lazy to add a few lines of text?

Sure he could. But did he have to? Again, he forbids consuming blood in a vampire-type way. At least, that's what I think he meant. But whatever. It's no big deal anyways. If a Witness doesn't think blood transfusions are right, let them think so. But when their child/spouse/friend/etc dies because he "couldn't" get one, they have no right to cry about it.

Of course they do. They were under the impression they would go to hell otherwise. Aren't you people supposed to be accepting of other's beliefs?

LegendaryGarchomp;Over9000 said:
It is a place of seperation where you will suffer because you have chosen to seperate yourself from Him (which I see no reason to do so) and you will not be loved (but you won't be hated just not loved) by anyone because of that. So the pain of being seperated from Him can be compared to fire but you won't actually be on fire.

I'm seperated from him now, and I feel just fine.

"Hey Pope! Give me 2 million or I publish the theory! -Darwin
 
Last edited:

Fenix

Tremulant
Ok, there's a lot here, so I'm just going with the first post and giving my thoughts.

1. Why do evolution and God have to be mutually exclusive? I believe in both. In fact, Darwin was a believer in God himself (well, until his daughter died). He credits a creator, just read The Origin of Species. I think that God created life and let it grow on its own.

2. Suffering is what gives us depth. Without suffering, we wouldn't be able to know what happiness is. It's also necessary for free will. I mean, if you want to do something bad to someone but someone prevented it, the choice would be meaningless to begin with. Without suffering, there's no need to help others and no love. We wouldn't know ourselves, either. We cultivate our personalities and grow through overcoming obstacles. That also makes what we learn more meaningful. To me, it's like God lets us create ourselves. He gives us the raw materials, but we're the artists. Maybe God could prevent suffering, but He couldn't do so without losing all of those effects. Omnipotence is a paradox in that He could never overpower Himself, anyway. But omnipotence is not a prerequisite for the existence of a God, anyway.

3. I think most religions have some amount of truth in them. We're all interpretting the same thing through our own cultures and personal experiences. It's kind of like a person reading a novel. Religions are different because people are different, not because we are.

Already sort of answered the last one. Anyway, I think it's important to understand that God's existence is not dependent upon our preconceived notions of Him. I believe in Him, even though I'm not sure exactly what He is or whether He has a conscious will (long explanation there, not getting into it unless someone asks).

But there are things in this world that just don't fit with a material realist view of the world (don't get me started on NDEs, I will argue it into the ground). The scientific community tries to brush them off with a few explanations (which I make a point to make myself familiar with), and while they work for some cases, they certainly don't for all. I have trouble believing what I want to, and sometimes it seems unlikely that there's more to the world than what we see, but... in the end, I can't find any other answer. We don't have proof in that we can't study it and measure it, but we have strong evidence that doesn't make sense otherwise. People also say there might be other explanations, but some things are just impossible in a completely material world. Well, that's all I've got, unless someone challenges me.
I couldn't have said it any better.
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
Without suffering, we wouldn't be able to know what happiness is
And if you're sitting in heaven with no suffering, this is eventually what you come to.

Religions are different because people are different, not because we are.
What about religions that have nothing to do with afterlife? Multiple gods?
 

seraph8x

Catastrophe
ok, so there's a reason evolution is widely accepted. scientists used to believe in god until darwin came up with a better idea, so you can't say that scientists hate god, because they are just people like us searching for answers. evolution wasn't a theory that someone just pulled out of there ***. the evidence for it has been increasing more and more.

so is God valid anymore? everything we see points to no god. some troubled christians attempt to mix evolution and the bible, a rediculous and futile attempt, as evolution undermines the bible.

anyway here's some things for Religious Folk to ask themselves:

- why is there suffering today? god is all powerful. can't he fix it?

- why is evolution widely accepted?

- what makes your religion different from all others?

- if evolution didn't have anything to do with religion, would you accept it?

discuss

What? You're not making sense. I don't see how evolution equates to no God. If God is truly as omnipotent as we know, then setting up a system of evolution would be no more difficult than setting up systems of magnification, gravitation, atomic structure, chemical reaction, space and time. Science doesn't ask "Is there a God", it describes what we see objectively. They're not asking the same questions, so they can't be compared.

Our suffering we cause. We are the cause to our own suffering. "Bending light and beaming forth across space time to see us scared in reflections of their oil black eyes, to stalk us like a predetor, like our movies imply- they're not the ones who've come to kill us, come to fill us full of lead, they're not the ones who hate us! And they are not the ones who mutilate our animals, or travel through the stars, they're not the ones who cause us harm- We are, we are, we are." While this song (Protest the Hero) is about aliens, it has a similar message- We cause our problems, don't worry about aliens or God or those who aren't bothering us, it's up to us to stop killing ourselves.

Evolution is fact, or at least based on good evidence. It does nothing for or against God.
 

seraph8x

Catastrophe
As for specific religions, you would be surprised what you agree with.

In Hinduism, we see a whole bunch of gods. A lot of people stop here and blow it off as primitive. But if you look back far enough, you find that ALL of those gods are part of one thing, called the Brahman, which is for all intents and purposes the christian/jew/muslim God (YHWH). It is a single conscious creator which permeates the entire universe in all things, and it is what the people strive to unite with by doing good acts to harmonize with it.

This sounds a whole lot like Christianity, minus the prophet Jesus.
 

PartyPokemon

L or Kira?
This sounds a whole lot like Christianity, minus the prophet Jesus.
Sorry, man. I hate to nitpick, but Christianity doesn't see Jesus as a prophet. Just sayin'. Although some other religons do and that's fine, I guess...
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
Just about every religion out there with a single God is going to have them as the most superior being ever.

This common trait wouldn't really support all religions deriving from the literal same God. It just tells me that people think alike when it comes to talking about one being who makes the universe. If one being made the universe, they BETTER be all powerful.
 

LegendaryGarchomp

Well-Known Member
I'm seperated from him now, and I feel just fine.

"Hey Pope! Give me 2 million or I publish the theory! -Darwin

But right now you are not seperated from His love if you choose to turn away from Him when you die He will respect that and He will stop showing His love to you.

Originally Posted By GhostAnime:

And if you're sitting in heaven with no suffering, this is eventually what you come to.

Not true, you don't need to suffer just to be happy. really being with the ones you love and love you is the true source of happiness and you'll be with them forever in Heaven which equals eternal happiness. Sounds like a pretty nice place to me.
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
If you only feel happiness in a single place for eternity, how do you know what happiness is if you've never felt sadness?
 

Jazzy

Typical
But right now you are not seperated from His love if you choose to turn away from Him when you die He will respect that and He will stop showing His love to you.

Whereupon I suddenly feel as if I've caught fire because someone I've never met has stopped loving me? What, is his love like a shield from pain?

Not true, you don't need to suffer just to be happy. really being with the ones you love and love you is the true source of happiness and you'll be with them forever in Heaven which equals eternal happiness. Sounds like a pretty nice place to me.

So whats the point of Earth then? Why not just create us in heaven?

God damn tencharlmt. My comments in bold.
 

Tyrant Tar

Well-Known Member
So whats the point of Earth then? Why not just create us in heaven?

Because that'd mean He made the choice for us, as opposed to giving us free will. Without free will, we'd be mindless followers, which... would make Heaven quite dull.
 

Fused

Shun the nonbeliever
Because that'd mean He made the choice for us, as opposed to giving us free will. Without free will, we'd be mindless followers, which... would make Heaven quite dull.

What shoice? there is no choice to be created in Heaven just like there is no choice of being created on Earth. Who says that we don't get to make choices in Heaven? And if we don't get to make chocies in Heaven, then what's the point of it? Hmm? Can anyone sufficiently answer that?
 

Jazzy

Typical
Because that'd mean He made the choice for us, as opposed to giving us free will. Without free will, we'd be mindless followers, which... would make Heaven quite dull.

What, so just making us in heaven means we don't have free will? give me a break. Whats the difference if we die and end up in heaven? Why do we have free will in one scenario but not the other?
 
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