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Is God Valid Anymore?

Chris

Old Coot
Of course it matters. The question of whether God exists is possibly the most important question ever.
No it isn't. There are FAR more important questions in this world that actually matter than whether an invisible man in the sky exists or not.

Worrying about whether what could possibly be an imaginary character exists or not is among the same lines as wondering if Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny exist.

People who get too caught up in their religious beliefs end up becoming nutcases. Especially if all you do is worry about whether you're sinning or not and if some person human beings came up with as a means to bring order to others and attempt to explain the mysteries of the world from the early ages (back before people realized science was a more logical approach) exists or not.
 

Jazzy

Typical
The difference being we are all 100% sure there is no Santa or Easter Bunny.
As it is, there is no conclusive evidence God doesn't exist and, if it were proved he does, would completely change the way billions of people acted.
 

pocketmunster

munster in my pocket
As it is, there is no conclusive evidence God doesn't exist and, if it were proved he does, would completely change the way billions of people acted
No it wouldnt. People are people no matter what information is availiable. Even if you could prove god existed, how would you know its the christian god?
 

pocketmunster

munster in my pocket
They're all the same entity. Brahman is YHWH is the singularity is God.
That may be, but they all imply different things about the after life. If you could prove god existed , you still couldnt prove that "sinning" means hell fire. Ya know?
 

Chris

Old Coot
As it is, there is no conclusive evidence God doesn't exist and, if it were proved he does, would completely change the way billions of people acted.
lol No it wouldn't. You'd have millions of religious folk in denial and claiming those who say that there's proof no such being exists are merely heretics and should be ignored.

Don't underestimate how tightly warped the minds of people are when it comes to religion.
 

BlitzBlast

Busy with School
Only one thing is for sure when it comes to God.

Topics that debate his existence always pop up, and they never end .
 

Jazzy

Typical
No it wouldnt. People are people no matter what information is availiable. Even if you could prove god existed, how would you know its the christian god?

God of course reffering to whoever your deity of choice is.
 

PartyPokemon

L or Kira?
Only one thing is for sure when it comes to God.

Topics that debate his existence always pop up, and they never end .
Actually, they do end. When they're closed by Babylon's mighty fist.
God of course reffering to whoever your deity of choice is.
Yes, sure. Technically, any God could fit this term. The Flying Spaghetti Monster could also fit this term, if you want him to.
 

LegendaryGarchomp

Well-Known Member
What shoice? there is no choice to be created in Heaven just like there is no choice of being created on Earth. Who says that we don't get to make choices in Heaven? And if we don't get to make chocies in Heaven, then what's the point of it? Hmm? Can anyone sufficiently answer that?

Heaven is for those who choose to follow Him and it is your reward for choosing to accept His love

Purgatory is where we are cleaned of any minor sins we have before we go to Heaven

Hell is where those who have chosen not to accept His love go

And Earth is where we chose to accept or not to accept His eternal love.

May I suggest getting a Catholic answer Bible and looking up some of the answers to your questions you have before you ask the questions here. they are usually written by Bishops, Priests, etc. so they probably will answer most of your questions any other ones you should have ask here. I ask this so we aren't overwhelmed with questions thanks :D
 
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Fused

Shun the nonbeliever
Heaven is for those who choose to follow Him and it is your reward for choosing to accept His love

Purgatory is where we are cleaned of any minor sins we have before we go to Heaven

Hell is where those who have chosen not to accept His love go

And Earth is where we chose to accept or not to accept His eternal love.

May I suggest getting a Catholic answer Bible and looking up some of the answers to your questions you have before you ask the questions. they are usually written by Bishops, Priests, etc. so they probably will answer most of your questions any other ones you should ask here so we aren't overwhelmed with questions thanks :D

So if you accept God and call him your savior then you go to Heaven and then do... what? You're basically saying that God created Earth and created humans and said "Believe in me or die" without giving any real or solid proof of his existence? It sounds to me like he's just a bit egotistical.

And why is it that we have to accept his love to get to Heaven. We can accept the love of a million other people, but that gets us nowhere? We can love a million people back and that gets us nowhere?

Also thank you for NOT answering my question sufficiently and for making me think of some new questions. You never told me why we go to heaven, wht our purpose is there. All you told me is that it's for people who love God really and that's it, there's no more to it, you're just sitting there in Heaven for the rest of your life.

The human spirit is inquisitive and adventurous, adn that carries with us into heaven if it exists. There must be something more to do than sit there with the lord for the rest of eternity. Or is there? Can you tell me?
 

Tyrant Tar

Well-Known Member
So if you accept God and call him your savior then you go to Heaven and then do... what? You're basically saying that God created Earth and created humans and said "Believe in me or die" without giving any real or solid proof of his existence? It sounds to me like he's just a bit egotistical.

A being calling itself God is inherently egotistical. As for giving us no proof, perhaps he wants us to focus on the 'help one another' part, not him being there or not. (plus, I think it may stem from 'owning' or controling something you know about, hence the Jewish/Christian God having no 'real' name)

And why is it that we have to accept his love to get to Heaven. We can accept the love of a million other people, but that gets us nowhere? We can love a million people back and that gets us nowhere?

Loving others is, in a way, loving God ("do unto others as you would unto me", etc.). So, loving a million people does get you somewhere.

Also thank you for NOT answering my question sufficiently and for making me think of some new questions. You never told me why we go to heaven, wht our purpose is there. All you told me is that it's for people who love God really and that's it, there's no more to it, you're just sitting there in Heaven for the rest of your life.

The human spirit is inquisitive and adventurous, adn that carries with us into heaven if it exists. There must be something more to do than sit there with the lord for the rest of eternity. Or is there? Can you tell me?

It has never been stated what happens in the afterlife, only what we'd 'feel' (joy-Heaven, sorrow-hell). I'd imagine God would prepare heaven in a way to accommodate his creations' inquisitive and adventurous spirit.
 

Hakajin

Obsessive Shipper
I think we're still putting God into a box here. We're using preconceived notions about God to argue whether He exists, but His existence doesn't depend on those things.

A being calling itself God is inherently egotistical. As for giving us no proof, perhaps he wants us to focus on the 'help one another' part, not him being there or not. (plus, I think it may stem from 'owning' or controling something you know about, hence the Jewish/Christian God having no 'real' name)

We're the ones calling it God. That's a title we have for that which created us, that which is above us. I don't think God thinks in those terms.

No it isn't. There are FAR more important questions in this world that actually matter than whether an invisible man in the sky exists or not.

Worrying about whether what could possibly be an imaginary character exists or not is among the same lines as wondering if Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny exist.

People who get too caught up in their religious beliefs end up becoming nutcases. Especially if all you do is worry about whether you're sinning or not and if some person human beings came up with as a means to bring order to others and attempt to explain the mysteries of the world from the early ages (back before people realized science was a more logical approach) exists or not.

Yes, it is. What we believe about God impacts so much of our philosophy. If you're talking God vs. material reality, then it's definitely the most important question you can ask. I mean, if this is all there is, we have no purpose for living. Sure, you can find things that you enjoy, but we would only enjoy those things because they help our species survive in some way.

Some say that our purpose is to have children and pass on our learning to them, but frankly, that's a load of crap. Our children will die, as will their children and their children, as will the human race and the universe itself. In the end, it's all lost. Besides, the things we learn would only help our children survive a little longer. In the end, their lives would be just as meaningless as our own. As philosopher Viktor Frankl said, "Something purposeless does not gain purpose by its continuation." Love, joy, goodness- all the things that give us meaning would all just be traits that help us survive. They wouldn't give a purpose to life but serve a purpose to live.

Then there's moral law. It can't exist in a material reality. It would just be an evolutionary by-product. Some say that we've reached a point in intelligence where we have responsibility, but that doesn't work. We couldn't have responsibility because our actions would be totally controlled by our genes and what we've learnt from experiences. There would be no free will at all, and therefore, no responsibility.

Some people say that they don't care either way, but it's something we all have to face. You could live believing that way, as long as you avoid thinking about death, but I don't think you can be fulfilled. How can you be, knowing that all your actions and work for the future only serve to make you a little more comfortable? It doesn't change your fate at all. Whereas if we're immortal, the things we do to improve ourselves here last forever.

Can we separate God and religion here? It's one thing to get legalistic and wonder what God wants, but it's quite another to wonder about God itself. Actually, that's what led me to break from religious thinking. I used to go along with what I felt I was supposed to believe, but when I seriously questioned the existance of God, I had to admit that I didn't believe a lot of those things. I had to figure out God in a way that made sense to me. Which is not to say that you can say any old thing and it's true, but you have to use your own experiences and thoughts. No one can tell you what God is. Well, someone can, but it won't mean as much to you. Figuring out what I think about it has been really exciting.
 

seraph8x

Catastrophe
Hakajin, I fancy your style.

God is not determined by what mortals think He is or must be.

One of my favorite logical proofs was hit on by Descartes- He said that all things have polarities, and all things have degrees (He didn't start this idea, he used it for his argument- Rather, he may have just hinted at this, but I am extrapolating on it)- If there is one thing, there is an opposite. If there is a degree of something, there must also be an epitome, or a perfect state. If we have a conception of something with degrees, it must have a maximum state. For example, if we can tell that there is a glass half-full of water, we can only know it is half-full if there is such thing as a full glass of water, other wise there is nothing to validate our experience.

Humans are imperfect, and therefore there must be something that IS perfect, otherwise we could not conceive our imperfection. Whatever that perfect point is, we call God.
 

Jazzy

Typical
Hakajin, I fancy your style.

God is not determined by what mortals think He is or must be.

One of my favorite logical proofs was hit on by Descartes- He said that all things have polarities, and all things have degrees (He didn't start this idea, he used it for his argument- Rather, he may have just hinted at this, but I am extrapolating on it)- If there is one thing, there is an opposite. If there is a degree of something, there must also be an epitome, or a perfect state. If we have a conception of something with degrees, it must have a maximum state. For example, if we can tell that there is a glass half-full of water, we can only know it is half-full if there is such thing as a full glass of water, other wise there is nothing to validate our experience.

Humans are imperfect, and therefore there must be something that IS perfect, otherwise we could not conceive our imperfection. Whatever that perfect point is, we call God.

This is known as one of the "Five truths" or five proofs. All have been proven invalid, this particular one because, as was stated, It could apply to anything.
 

Ethan

Banned
Why does God show inconsistency in his love? I don't necessarily bring up the aspect of omnibenevolence, because holding him to what I believe to be moral or proper behavior would obviously be amiss. What I do take issue with, is the seeming contradiction in the standards of love or morality that God has given us. Take for example the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. In this case, God loves mankind in the midst of all its wickednesss, sin, and malice that he sends his one and only son Jesus to die for them. That's big. It's not just a generic case of a good man taking a hit for his friend, like when a cop takes a bullet for his partner, or a bomb pushes her kid out of the way of a truck, and takes the hit instead. They aren't the same. With the crucifixion, according to Christian theology, God gives up his sons life to save people that don't even deserve to live.

Yet, when a little girl is brutally raped and tortured by her own father, and while she screams for help, for mercy, is it to be said to me that God does not hear her? Surely a God that invests so much of his emotion into humanity can feel that little girls screams. Why doesn't it stop? Now again, I'm not arguing from the typical standpoint that God is not omnibenevolent. I don't intend to hold God to what I think he should, and should not do. I don't know why he lets evil of that magnitude continue, but as it stands I am not God so it's not my place to stand as an accuser. I can however, ask why does God do great things for us, great acts of love like giving his life, but does nothing to act or intervene in other situations?
 

Jazzy

Typical
Why does God show inconsistency in his love? I don't necessarily bring up the aspect of omnibenevolence, because holding him to what I believe to be moral or proper behavior would obviously be amiss. What I do take issue with, is the seeming contradiction in the standards of love or morality that God has given us. Take for example the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. In this case, God loves mankind in the midst of all its wickednesss, sin, and malice that he sends his one and only son Jesus to die for them. That's big. It's not just a generic case of a good man taking a hit for his friend, like when a cop takes a bullet for his partner, or a bomb pushes her kid out of the way of a truck, and takes the hit instead. They aren't the same. With the crucifixion, according to Christian theology, God gives up his sons life to save people that don't even deserve to live.

Yet, when a little girl is brutally raped and tortured by her own father, and while she screams for help, for mercy, is it to be said to me that God does not hear her? Surely a God that invests so much of his emotion into humanity can feel that little girls screams. Why doesn't it stop? Now again, I'm not arguing from the typical standpoint that God is not omnibenevolent. I don't intend to hold God to what I think he should, and should not do. I don't know why he lets evil of that magnitude continue, but as it stands I am not God so it's not my place to stand as an accuser. I can however, ask why does God do great things for us, great acts of love like giving his life, but does nothing to act or intervene in other situations?

7h15 15 50 w3 c4n h4v3 fr33 w111. Mankind created evil and if little girls couldn't be raped, we wouldn't have free will. /end********.
 
I am one of those guys who is WAY into science and I usually only accept stuff when there is face. I am also the kind of person wiht a huge imagination. I like to think there is something out there that is greater and all powerful. I freely admit that i am Muslim and I intend to stay that way because there is a lot of evidence that I have heard of thta leads to the stuff in the Qur'an being true. At the same time though I think evolution seems INCREDIBLY likely and true. Now I am only young, only just turned 12 at the begining of January, but to me I like to think that evolution explains how not why. What I mean by that is that evolution may say how humans came to be that way we are today, because for all we know Adam and Eve may have been monkeys, but not why. I reckon it was God that made evolution possible......Now my way of thought, especially on this, may change as I get older and when new evidence is found proving either evolution or Islam, but I think, for now, I have a pretty good over-view on this,

CC out.
 

Validus

Well-Known Member
- why is there suffering today? god is all powerful. can't he fix it?

this is probably the most commonly asked question when it comes to God. most parents understand the answer quite well. The answer being beacuse if he fixed and did everything for us, we would in fact learn nothing and instead of growing stronger and becoming better people, we would in fact start to reply on him for more and more. We need to stand indenpenatly and take resonsiblity for ourselves. If a parent gives too much to a kid, that kid becomes spolied and well... simply a brat. God is an expert on tough love.

- why is evolution widely accepted?

simply, because it's science. I however feel the need to remind people that evolution is not sepreate from God. it's just another of his creations that allows us to grow. (that came off more churchie then i intended but logicly if he can create the world, why would he not be able to create mulitple ways for that world to grow?)

- what makes your religion different from all others?

My religion?... well thats a really long answer that i don't believe is suitable for discussing the validness of God. but in short i'm more spiritual than anything else. i don't believe any one religion has really acurately defined the outer limites of existence. I believe more so that the truth lies somewhere in between and even then we are still missing most of it. If there is one God, why not more? and do those gods have beings they look up to, Elder Gods? and then those as well and so on for infinity. humans have always viewed things from a limited perceptive, it's not a fault so much as all we can do based on our limited sences.... I'll cut myself off here, as i could write pages on this.

- if evolution didn't have anything to do with religion, would you accept it?

I find this question impossible to answer, beacuse it misses the point. religion deals with everything, evolution included. In my opion it's impossible to say God created the world but as nothing to do with how it works... thats like saying someone built a car, but had nothing to do with building the engine... it not really a car without the engine. it not really a world without a way to grow.
 
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