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Is it homophobic to think of homosexuality as a sin?

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by AshxSatoshi, Dec 18, 2019.

  1. AshxSatoshi

    AshxSatoshi Ice Aurelia

    Of course the three main religions by Western standards pretty much universally agree that being gay is a sin. Some of them have the “love the sinner hate the sin policy”. My question is....is considering homosexuality a sin within itself homophobic?
     
  2. jaden767

    jaden767 Amphetamine

    Technically yes? By definition I would say that anyone who has a problem with homosexuality is by default homophobic. But I will say that people who just think that homosexuality is unnatural are different from people who actively want to harm those who are homosexual.

    I often see a lot of hate towards Christians because they don't agree with gay marriage and gay adoption, but I don't think they're as bad as certain other people who would actually be okay with the idea of killing homosexuals based on their 'sin'.
     
    Leonhart likes this.
  3. WishIhadaManafi5

    WishIhadaManafi5 To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before. Staff Member Moderator

    Moving this over to debate.
     
  4. Prof. SALTY

    Prof. SALTY The Scruffy Professor

    The short answer? No. The long answer? Yes.

    Believing that homosexuality is a sin isn't hateful by itself. A sin isn't necessarily a bad thing. Mixing fabrics, tattoos, adult solo fun time, jewellery, divorce and bacon are all great but they are sinful.

    What IS homophobic is treating LGBT+ people differently because of those beliefs. We are still human beings and deserve to be treated as such. Denying us rights, kicking us out of our homes or firing us based on our sexual or gender identity, telling us to our face that our "lifestyle" is wrong as if we haven't heard it a million times before. These are homophobic. A book written over a thousand years ago does not give you the right to say what is and isn't allowed in modern society.
     
    MotostokeOnTrent likes this.
  5. Gamzee Makara

    Gamzee Makara Let people enjoy things...

    Abrahamic Religions are inherently homophobic due to Leviticus, choice quotes from Paul or authors clearly pretending to be him, and some parts of the Qu'ran.

    Most religions are perversions of their original intent that persist due to being co-opted, censored and edited so that they keep religious cishet men in over-abundant dominance rather than evolving with the times and re-evaluatons done by thinkers.

    So yes, thinking of it as a "sin" is homophobia, as that kind of thinking is baked into cishetmale power structures that religions provide the archaic bases for.
     
  6. Prof. SALTY

    Prof. SALTY The Scruffy Professor

    Well said. My original post was a lot like yours but I tamed it down. I admire you being able to speak without hesitation
     
    Redstar45 likes this.
  7. Totokip

    Totokip Black Triangle

    I think it's pretty safe to say that the common understanding of the word sin is that it's something bad. Something morally reprehensible. A sin is a fault; a lack of goodness or purity.

    Based on that I think it's 100% homophobic to think of homosexuality as a sin.
     
  8. Captain Jigglypuff

    Captain Jigglypuff Leader of Jigglypuff Army

    I think too many things are considered to be “sins” when they really aren’t harmful. Religion has made crusades about so many things that some of these are downright ridiculous especially when you read about what they are attacking. Thinking homosexuality is a sin is homophobic but not everyone who is brought up to believe that lie sticks to it after growing up and hearing the flip side of the coin. Freddy Phelps was a notorious homophobe and hammered his beliefs into his entire family but one son cut off all ties and at least two granddaughters saw the error of seeing homosexuality as a sin and walked away from the church their grandfather had founded after being asked why they thought that way and had no reasonable explanation. So homophobic people are capable of changing if given the correct info and they see first hand what kind of damage their hatred has caused.
     
    Redstar45 likes this.
  9. Yes, it really is homophobic. But there's still a difference between people who just think that and ones who actually act on that and verbally or physically abuse gay people.

    The majority of religions, including the three Abrahamic ones are really close minded by nature if you follow their texts by the letter. They're not only homophobic but also sexist against women and as far as I know all three say you should kill "heretics" as well. I'm guessing a lot of hate and violence against gay people come from those three religions. Not gonna claim there's barely people outside of those that are homophobic though.

    Personally, I don't think it's anyone else's business what two consenting adults do in their bedroom.
     
    Leonhart likes this.
  10. WishIhadaManafi5

    WishIhadaManafi5 To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before. Staff Member Moderator

    Definitely. There's a lot in the bible like what you mentioned. About women being unclean during certain times of the year (menstruation) and such.
     
  11. Captain Jigglypuff

    Captain Jigglypuff Leader of Jigglypuff Army

    The Bible is full of insane rules and messed up stories. Some of them misinterpreted than what they originally were meant to teach. For example, the true sin of Sodom and Gomorrah wasn’t even sexual in nature. They were destroyed for not being charitable and greed. And then there’s the part of the story of David and Goliath where the hero literally used the giant’s own sword to cut off his head. And there’s the story about how a woman got a General so drunk that while he was passed out, she took a giant stake and drove it into the guy’s head. And don’t get me started on how touching a woman during that time of the month even in the slightest made you “unclean.”
     
    Redstar45 and WishIhadaManafi5 like this.
  12. WishIhadaManafi5

    WishIhadaManafi5 To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before. Staff Member Moderator

    Yep. People have warped the bible over the years out of their own ignorance and hatred.
     
    Redstar45 likes this.
  13. Ubermuk

    Ubermuk Sticky & Sweet

    Why is the Bible always the scapegoat when it comes to homophobia in religion? Because I've read the Quran and let me tell you it's a whole lot worse than the Bible when it comes to homophobia. At least Christians can pick and choose parts of the Bible that they believe in, but Muslims consider the Quran to be the absolute word of God (Allah), so they're more likely to be influenced by the homophobia that's in their holy book without questioning if it's right or wrong...
     
  14. bobjr

    bobjr It's Fusion, I don't have to expalin it. Staff Member Moderator

    I can’t speak outside of America but LGBT rights poll better with Muslims in America than Christians. But it’s more a generational thing as well with each generation getting better about it, except for Evangelical Christians.
     
  15. Auraninja

    Auraninja Try to understand.

    It's demonstrative cherry picking to attack the LGBT as being sinful by nature, yes.
     
  16. Captain Jigglypuff

    Captain Jigglypuff Leader of Jigglypuff Army

    Actually Islam was pretty tolerant of the LGBT community until the past century. There are many stories of same sex love in Middle Eastern culture. None are that well known but they do exist. This Wikipedia article explains the history pretty well.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam
     
  17. Sham

    Sham Korra was BETTER than ATLA your crazy

    It is almost always illegal to kill someone that’s LGBT or persecute them in Christian majority countries (America, Mexico and Philippines to name a few). In a lot of Islam based countries it is legal (not all). I also question the accuracy in that poll considering there are more Christians than Muslims in America anyway.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
  18. bobjr

    bobjr It's Fusion, I don't have to expalin it. Staff Member Moderator

    Why would the total number of people in each group effect what each one believes on average? Also while a lot of Middle Eastern countries do have terrible leadership in that regard since the 1950's, look at what would happen in a month with an Evangelical President in America, when really it's only been the past 10 years or so where significant stuff has gotten passed. Look at suicide rates in conversion therapy and it might as well be the same.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
  19. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    I wouldn't just write off the entirety of Islam as being fundamentalist. Also, its always a bad sign when someone uses the excuse that someone else is vaguely behaving worse to excuse any person or group's behaviour.
    The fact that homosexuality is a crime punishable by death in Qatar for example does not make it any better than LBGT teenagers in the USA can be at least as four times as likely to make a serious attempt at suicide (Page 121 below).
    http://afsp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/full-report.pdf
    You'll always fall short if you only aim to be better than someone else. Civil rights come from the ambition to be better that you are right now.

    This.
    It is true that Abrahamic Religions have explicit homophobia. But I don't think its possible for anyone to completely follow their holy texts' literal interpretation. Every religious person has their own unique version of God(s).
    If a person ignores any of the banlist in Leviticus, but chooses to believe that God wants them to ostracise or even kill gay people, it is because they have chosen to interpret the parts of their religion that give them permission for homophobia.

    People choose to put their time into protesting LBGT+ equality, or running pray-away-the-gay camps that basically torture people into repressing their natural sexuality. When they could be spending that time and effort helping rehabilitate real criminals or helping the sick and homeless. That's homophobia.

    And even if people don't consider themselves actively homophobic. If people will treat homophobia as a sin, it will inevitably cause real effects. Whether its turning gay people from job interviews, to electing politicians who will suppress gay rights.

    Of course I wouldn't say that all religious communities are homohobic, or that all homophobes are motivated by religion. Plenty of religious people aren't remotely homophobic. while it is a common cause, there's also the perceived threat of homosexuality to the traditional patriarchal family structure. The sterotype of gay people as pedophiles. Discrimination against homosexuality in fiction etc.
     
  20. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    Almost no one follows their religion 100%. They cherry pick which laws "are actually metaphors" or something. If someone decides homosexuality is a sin, it's because they're homophobic.
     
    Totokip and Aduro like this.

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