Is it just me or...

[TheFonz]

From the way you're talking it seems like you're assuming I dislike "competent" TRio. I feel that what BW was trying to do would be the only proper finale of Team Rocket, but it came too soon and played out wrong. It's been TRio's dream to gain the respect of the boss and get promotion! Like a gigantic huge deal that they wanted desperately. Don't you think something that important and ground breaking(lol bad choice of words) deserved more focus? Remember stuff like the introduction of Delibird and we got to see how things work at Team Rocket? That is the kind of stuff they deserved. Fake promotion or not, it was a freakin' huge deal when it happened. And all we got out of it was the Meloetta two parter. It was good, but Team Rocket and Giovanni deserved better.

So no, I am not for goofy TRio, but serious TRio needed to be better.

Why should we have cared about Trip? The writers barely tried with the whole Alder thing and had Trip lose to every besides Ash. Are you trying to say that TRio becoming goofy again is why BW has ended up with barely anything to show for it? If not, my apologies, I'm tired from my first day of an 8 hour college class haha

You can have your opinion, but it's not good to just accept a mediocre result when you know they can do better. Should someone just be allowed to slack at their job?

 

[Pokemaniac24]

From the way you're talking it seems like you're assuming I dislike "competent" TRio. I feel that what BW was trying to do would be the only proper finale of Team Rocket, but it came too soon and played out wrong. It's been TRio's dream to gain the respect of the boss and get promotion! Like a gigantic huge deal that they wanted desperately. Don't you think something that important and ground breaking(lol bad choice of words) deserved more focus? Remember stuff like the introduction of Delibird and we got to see how things work at Team Rocket? That is the kind of stuff they deserved. Fake promotion or not, it was a freakin' huge deal when it happened. And all we got out of it was the Meloetta two parter. It was good, but Team Rocket and Giovanni deserved better.

So no, I am not for goofy TRio, but serious TRio needed to be better.

Why should we have cared about Trip? The writers barely tried with the whole Alder thing and had Trip lose to every besides Ash. Are you trying to say that TRio becoming goofy again is why BW has ended up with barely anything to show for it? If not, my apologies, I'm tired from my first day of an 8 hour college class haha

You can have your opinion, but it's not good to just accept a mediocre result when you know they can do better. Should someone just be allowed to slack at their job?

No, I don't think you dislike BW TR at all. If it came across that way, I'm sorry. I understand where you are coming from. There are a lot of things I would like to see from TR that we haven't yet like more of the backstories of the other members and I would like TRio to be competent with some humor added in there from time to time.

I don't understand what you are asking me. Are you asking me if I think goofy TR ruined the later half of BW? No but I think it's part of the problem.


I admitted that BW fell apart at the end but you could make a case that DP could have been so much better. People could say that about almost ANY TV show. But sometimes we have to be happy with what we get and realize that it's for entertainment. I don't know why you make it seem like I think BW is this perfect saga and that I have no faults with it and that I don't want it to fix its mistakes because that is completely false. All I'm saying is this is what the writers gave us and I ended up enjoying BW more than a lot of other people. That's all I'm saying. Is it the best saga? No but I enjoyed.

 

[TheFonz]

Sorry, I shouldn't be discussing when over tired >_<

I guess it's just that I can't understand how someone could find BW enjoyable(and I did up to a certain point) with knowing all the negatives and positives. It was just too much for me and was a big disappointment for the first time. It's not farfetched to say that BW has arguably had the worst impact on the anime, I mean just look at the forum. Although Serebii is not representative of the entire fanbase, we have seen some noticeable outrage in different areas of the fandom in this very controversial series

 

[pokemon fan 132]

First, note how I said "or". That means any of the three, including just liking a character(s).

Guys. A show being directed at selling PEOPLE merchandise, not just little kids, doesn't mean they can just slack off after 13 years all the sudden. I can't possibly understand how Ash regressing is a breath of fresh air. They messed up too many things for the changes to be good.

I second this. Im really tired of excuse "this show is written for small kids, therefore writers don't have to do good job".

But globally speaking what kind of message does this send to fanbase in general? Small kids can care about quality too and if things are treated inconsistent or they don't manage to experience enjoyment from something they will surely switch channel. Needless to say while older fans are out of demographic many of them are still tuned in show buying products, watching series and playing games making number which shouldn't be easily looked upon.

I was really excited for start of Unova series, i really did. I felt we needed some change after 8 years of contests and premise behind BW story, cool characters with interesting background like Iris etc sound very appealing on first glance.

However it all went downhill for me in first part when 12 years of development and achievements main protagonist went through went down ther gutter with past and previous adventures, companions being treated like nonexistant which never happened.
Giving out impression how its pointless to follow someone journey anymore if there is no progression injected into it.

Accompanied with inadequable and inconsistent development of companions like Iris with growth not following amount of effort put into it beforehand,.Or Cilan who barely grew at all with rivalries between characters being treated like joke which shouldn't be took seriuously.

Though ill be fair because there are things i liked such as Don George tournaments, group chemistry which felt to be full of energy and many fun episodes containing lighthearted humor and good dialogue.
And we got N arc which was imo highlight of whole Bw series executing it in decent manner.

But afterwards when we stepped intio Decolora adventure its like writers didn't even tried anymore wasting time on pointless fillers which weren't even that amusing tbh, no real storyline for Ash and group to follow or any plot through which their journey through DA islands could feel like it holds some relevance, memorability to it.

Saddest thing is how they had material on disposal to make Decolora side adventure truly meaningful, full of unexpectedd twists filled with return of older familiar faces lifting things up through presence and help move story forward. Along with giving outlet on table through which Ash, Iris and Cilan could train, develop together and apply acquired knowledge helping them move forward. All through expansion on World Cup concept which had lot of potential basing on what games displayed. But they just passed on it ending everything with Junior Cup which was travesty imo resulting in side arc becoming detour with very little development or events which would add certain texture to whole thing.

One of fundamental points in making some franchise and its media (this case anime)healthy and strong lies in staying faithful to continuity, development of characters and consistency of plots keeping ties with previous characters and achievements which molded things in past resulting in eventful, coherent story which is build upon over course of journey. Setting groundwork for devoted fans, stable income of money and higher popularity.

Which writers honestly aren't especially good at all since whatever changes they made requires explanation and build up to it to avoid messing up integrity of characters and plots creating only confusion. I already know im going to be frowned upon but even Johto was better series having sense of continuity moving things forward and more endearing characters imo.

AG and DP raised the standards of the anime, but BW has lowered it severely is what I'm saying. People act like there was never anything good in the first place

If you ask me by combining all good points from OS, AG, DP and BW we could have perfect saga. Though than again you cant with current writing recreate "style" previous saga had following different type of writing, or do same type of dynamic with other characters which operate on different level making it basically impossible task for accomplish.

 

[Sprinter1988]

I second this. Im really tired of excuse "this show is written for small kids, therefore writers don't have to do good job".

But globally speaking what kind of message does this send to fanbase in general? Small kids can care about quality too and if things are treated inconsistent or they don't manage to experience enjoyment from something they will surely switch channel. Needless to say while older fans are out of demographic many of them are still tuned in show buying products, watching series and playing games making number which shouldn't be easily looked upon.

I was really excited for start of Unova series, i really did. I felt we needed some change after 8 years of contests and premise behind BW story, cool characters with interesting background like Iris etc sound very appealing on first glance.

However it all went downhill for me in first part when 12 years of development and achievements main protagonist went through went down ther gutter with past and previous adventures, companions being treated like nonexistant which never happened.
Giving out impression how its pointless to follow someone journey anymore if there is no progression injected into it.

Accompanied with inadequable and inconsistent development of companions like Iris with growth not following amount of effort put into it beforehand,.Or Cilan who barely grew at all with rivalries between characters being treated like joke which shouldn't be took seriuously.

Though ill be fair because there are things i liked such as Don George tournaments, group chemistry which felt to be full of energy and many fun episodes containing lighthearted humor and good dialogue.
And we got N arc which was imo highlight of whole Bw series executing it in decent manner.

But afterwards when we stepped intio Decolora adventure its like writers didn't even tried anymore wasting time on pointless fillers which weren't even that amusing tbh, no real storyline for Ash and group to follow or any plot through which their journey through DA islands could feel like it holds some relevance, memorability to it.

Saddest thing is how they had material on disposal to make Decolora side adventure truly meaningful, full of unexpectedd twists filled with return of older familiar faces lifting things up through presence and help move story forward. Along with giving outlet on table through which Ash, Iris and Cilan could train, develop together and apply acquired knowledge helping them move forward. All through expansion on World Cup concept which had lot of potential basing on what games displayed. But they just passed on it ending everything with Junior Cup which was travesty imo resulting in side arc becoming detour with very little development or events which would add certain texture to whole thing.

One of fundamental points in making some franchise and its media (this case anime)healthy and strong lies in staying faithful to continuity, development of characters and consistency of plots keeping ties with previous characters and achievements which molded things in past resulting in eventful, coherent story which is build upon over course of journey. Setting groundwork for devoted fans, stable income of money and higher popularity.

Which writers honestly aren't especially good at all since whatever changes they made requires explanation and build up to it to avoid messing up integrity of characters and plots creating only confusion. I already know im going to be frowned upon but even Johto was better series having sense of continuity moving things forward and more endearing characters imo.



If you ask me by combining all good points from OS, AG, DP and BW we could have perfect saga. Though than again you cant with current writing recreate "style" previous saga had following different type of writing, or do same type of dynamic with other characters which operate on different level making it basically impossible task for accomplish.

Ash's Pikachu lost to Trip's brand new Snivy in the first episode, and Ash tried to capture a Deerling without weakening it first in the second episode. For many of us, the anime struggled to recover from that point onwards. Making Ash the same person he was at the start of his Kanto journey was a mistake that should never have happened. Since then the show has tried to make up for it, without contradicting its new timeline, but seems largely to have failed. The recent return of Charizard (as much as I think he's great) is but the main example of this.

This new Ash appear to completely forget much of his previously gained knowledge, which meant two things - watching him battle didn't feel like this was the Ash that we all knew, and he did not have that knowledge to pass on to others. Like them or not, Ash was a sort-of mentor to both May and Dawn, especially at the begining of each of their respective journeys, somewhat like how Brock and Misty were to him at the start of his own journey.
The Ash at the end of the Sinnoh was one of the top four trainers in the league. He was experianced. He was ready to be a proper mentor to someone else. Brock's leaving should have signalled that a more grown up Ash was on the way.
The Best Wishes series had the potential to show Ash as a mature and responsible trainer, travelling with a newbie and showing them the ropes while still following his own goals. The third trainer could still have been Iris, but a more grown up one.
What we got was the exact opposite of that. Ash was a novice again, and he was teamed up with a girl whose goal would never really be explored all that much, and an older trainer whose main roll is to cook the food and act as a tour guide. It wasn't just Ash who regressed - the entire formula for the main cast did.

Compared to the Sinnoh series, much was lacking. Setting aside arguments about episode quality and the characterisations of the cast, let's look a the actual pokemon. Ash may have had more in this series than in Sinnoh, but compare them to his previous team and his new rosta comes up lacking. Compare Oshawott to Buizel. Yes, Oshawott learned Hydro Pump whereas Buizel is still stuck with Water Gun, but Buizel at least had a variety of type in his moveset. Then there's Snivy, who is far weaker than Torterra, and Pignite who simply does not compare to Infernape. The same goes for Unfezant and Staraptor. Admittedly Scraggy compares well to Gible (at least to some extent) and Krookodile to Gliscor, but that is about it. Boldore and Palpitoad, although having a greater variety (I myself think that Palpitoad is the best water type Ash owns) simply are not used enough, and Leavanny suffers the same problem, even though it is the only one of Ash's current pokemon to develop a good improvised move that gets used repeatedly (the String Shot - Energy Ball/Razor Leaf combo move)

The same thing happened with the rivals. Like of loathe Paul, there can be no arguing that his pokemon, especially Torterra, Honchkrow, Ursaring, Electivire, Magmortar, Weavile and Drapion, set a standard of strength that Trip and his pokemon simply failed to reach, with only Serperior and Conkeldurr coming close. Trip also failed to live up to the standard set by Gary. As far as we know, Trip's entire team consists of Serperior, Conkeldurr, Tranquill, Frillish, Lampent and Vanillite. Not so very threatening, after all. Or at least it would not have been to an Ash with the same knowledge as the one we had in Sinnoh.

 

[はるひ]

It's not that they are running out of ideas. If that were the case, we wouldn't have gotten so many new and awesome things like we did in BW/BW2. It's that the writers don't care about giving us a big epic ending to Best Wishes, which is a shame but what can we do about it now? XY isn't that far away.

True. It's just that to me, I feel like DA! is just rehashing old episodes from previous seasons. I like DP but I don't want to see them be rehashed again. It gets boring. And some characters... I don't know why they are there. (trio comes to mind)

 

[Caseydia]

I disagree I have watched the anime from the start and BW was a breath of fresh air from the DP. In DP the show became to an endless cycle of running gags and the show had no suspense. When BW came I finally took Team Rocket seriously and Ash battled more than just Team Rocket. The wild pokemon were finally threating instead of solving everything with just a "I'm sorry forgive me" or it all Team Rocket fault."

I really hope that the lull in the show is becase the writers are studying up for XY

I don't know what is this supposed to be. BW has had rehashes as well as DP did. BW didn't feel any fresh than DP. In fact it felt like it was going backwards because it was similar to how Kanto was. I wish people would stop putting down DP for being fresh when BW has it's own problems including rehashes from back in the old days as well.

As far as TR goes, all the writers did was make TR appear less and more serious like they were back in the old days. After that they became just like how the were before. Buffoons.

 

[はるひ]

^^I liked Dp/AG Rocket dan the most but this.... this is just....

I felt like the episodes in DA wouldn't be different if we took them out. But the animation was great!