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Is it just me who doesn't hate the fillers of Johto?

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ArmadaUGS

Well-Known Member
Yeah I really like that char and I do understand the fact that you question me on how biased I maight be.
But I really like Brock too and should be very "biased" there too. Even then I consider Orange Islands like a good saga.

Misty leaving the cast is a big reason I don't like Hoenn as much but it is tons of other things too.

-The Pokemons does not feel like Pokemon for me. I guess this maybe makes me "biased" but what the hell if we keep going like this we are all biased and it comes to personal taste.
- Emotions: Worse for sure. The connection between mostly Ash and the Pokemons he has feels not as big as they used to in the early parts of the anime
- I like when Ash do have more of a "rivalry" thing with gym leaders in Kanto then this friendly thing he has with pretty much everyone in all the other sagas (but a combination of both would be good too)
- Re learning much stuff. Seriously after 300 episodes he is trying to catch Pokemons by just throwing the ball (after telling May she can't do it that way)
- He wanna become a champion but refuse to actually use the strongest Pokemon he has (Charizard) in the Hoenn League
- Less fun in generall. Also personal taste (like everything) but I do think Misty adds a extra spice that is really fun to watch.

One thing that is really good in Hoenn though (Yes Im not completly biased like you/others maybe think)
- Gave May more episodes as a own char then they gave Misty. Even if I don't like contests (Im not a fan of "judgeing" sports in generall so it maybe is because of that) it is good they try to develope the char but then Max should have had a bit more but yeah great thing they tried to make May a better char

And yeah probably something else too but I can't really remember atm.

Edit:
Yeah the fact that they don't have as many "stupid wins" in Hoenn is also good. Ash Pikachu had tons of random victorys by aiming his thunder to the horn/tongue etc
Some strategys Ash use in Hoenn while fighting is also pretty good and shows that he is actually learning much
 
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LizardonX

Banned
Well it's good that you have reasons, but most just bash everything after Hoenn with no reasons other than Misty isn't there.
 

ArmadaUGS

Well-Known Member
Tbh many people bash even Hoenn cause that was the region that had Pokemons many old fans don't recognize. So Pokemon was not "outstanding" anymore (like basically every kid was playing Pokemon or had the cards/watched the anime or doing Pokemon related stuff)
But yeah this is probably different depending on where you live (and when it came to that specific country) so Im more talking about Sweden in this specific answer. But yeah I don't like when people hate on things without giving it a chance.

That's also why I decided to watch the entire anime after many years without it cause I actually wanna see how everyting turned out and not just hear what people say without even watching it.
 

Hilda

Well-Known Member
So not having your opinion makes someone not a Pokemon fan?

No, not liking a very big aspect of Pokémon makes it. And I said real Pokémon fan, which is used for die-hard fans. I urge you to think a bit more carefully before commenting.
 

Hilda

Well-Known Member
I liked certain parts of Johto, but didn't like most of it.

Does that mean I'm not a die hard fan?

I clearly remember saying ''hate''. Disliking a few parts because it was monotone and such is ok. But some people go ''OHHHH, why did Johto even exist!!! Oh the Tragedy!!''
 

LizardonX

Banned
I remember back in the day when they did a pokemon marathon once. The entire marathon was a string of fillers. God that was infuriating.

Now I can just skip to the good eps and ignore the fillers that plagued the region and pretend they never existed
 

gliscor&yanmega

Well-Known Member
I started watching the anime again after about ten years or so (I lost Kids WB around 2002 or so), and I actually enjoyed the Johto episodes so far. Not sure what I see in them that others don't seem to, but I enjoy the fillers.

There will of course people others who enjoy Johto's fillers.

As with everything, there's always a large amount of people who will like and dislike a certain thing, the more popular something is, the larger these two sides are.

Personally, I haven't watched Johto in a long while, but I'm pretty sure I enjoyed it when I did watch it, and I'm sure I'll enjoy watching them again whenever I get around to doing so.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
Johto is pretty amazing. Those who hate it are not real Pokémon fans.

Considering the vast majority of the original fanbase stopped watching regularly back in the middle of Johto, I don't know what you're talking about.

Most people never even made it through all of Johto in its original run. It was shortly after the 3rd movie debuted and after Charizard left that the original fanbase was drifting.

That's why some people didn't even know Misty was gone till like 2004-2005, simply because they stopped watching in the middle of Johto and came back when we were in the middle of Hoenn and didn't know what happened.
 

Thriller

Its almost time
Ugh, I'm glad I missed out on most of Johto. I only caught one episode at the airport (I lived close to no WB Stations back then) and it was just a dumb filler about Remoraid shooting into a rock.

So glad Hoenn more than made up for the atrocious Johto.
 
I clearly remember saying ''hate''. Disliking a few parts because it was monotone and such is ok. But some people go ''OHHHH, why did Johto even exist!!! Oh the Tragedy!!''

You're still not backing up your statement from earlier that Street Comedy mentioned~
 

Zubeon

Well-Known Member
I started watching again from Episode 1 onward, and I'm currently about 1/3 of the way through Johto Champions, being one of those original fans who stopped watching early in Johto.

I don't think anyone's arguing that there's too much filler, but for me most of it is still good enough. Like somebody else mentioned, I enjoyed seeing Lickitung in action a lot more in Johto, until Wobbufett came along. But if I ever work my way back around, I know which episodes I'll be skipping, though that's not exclusive to the Johto saga.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Personally i gave chance to any pokemon series with each saga having good chunk of good and bad episodes. I admit how Johto indeed had fairly notable number of easily forgettable no purpose episodes, but it also had many memorable ones as well. I liked episodes including mini competitions such as grass tournament, bug catching contest, competition about putting down fire etc.

There were many enjoyable episodes focusing on Misty, Brock, TR and flesh out of their characters. Such as " Fortune Hunters" about pokemon horoscope, "Forest Grumps" where James and Meowth got stuck with Misty and Jessie with Ash and Brock having to work together and escape from Ursaring". "Heartbreak of Brock"where Brock almost got married, "Unbearable" where Misty was deceived by Teddiursa charm fiercely defending her, "Wired for Battle" where Heracross was involved in fierce battle against Scizor. And many, many more.

Putting bad episodes aside in comparison to DP fillers and all those practicing for appeals i often found Johto episodes involving more humor and more engaging interactions between main cast.

Quite frankly i never understood such immense hatred for non plot related episodes" fan term =fillers).
Its like people would want that show should only include gym battles, episodes about pokemon captures and character development turning series in game with no real story and sense of adventure going on,.

Not to mention with such approach there wouldn't be enough material to allow for creation of sustainable, stable storyline lasting long enough until new games come out
To truly get know characters and flesh their personalities out, provide adventurous feel to series being treated like coherent story with sense of progression rather than some gameboy stage its good from time to time to have episodes based on humor and lighthearted side of adventure often adding required appeal to TV series by maintaining viewers attention preventing them from ending tired with plot related episodes.

Of course exaggeration in any form leads to lose of interest as well, but non plot related episodes in moderate amount are necessary to have stable, balanced story allowing to relate better to characters and fully enjoy in storytelling.

Considering the vast majority of the original fanbase stopped watching regularly back in the middle of Johto, I don't know what you're talking about.

Not quite, its more that most original fanbase stopped watching after Misty left and original trio was split up.

Amount of complaining which came afterwards and surprisingly big demand for return only further indicates this.

Your right about popularity starting drifting away in middle of Johto, but real decline happened at end of OS.

Ugh, I'm glad I missed out on most of Johto. I only caught one episode at the airport (I lived close to no WB Stations back then) and it was just a dumb filler about Remoraid shooting into a rock.

So glad Hoenn more than made up for the atrocious Johto.

To be fair, if you never watched most of some saga than you can't really form full picture on some series and if they had required appeal to suit your taste. Johto had quite a few bad episodes, but it also had many enjoyable episodes as well with fans often doing mistake of classifying everything which isn't gym battle as "filler". Also Master Quest was probably highlight of that series having many great arcs about Team Rocket organization, Whirl islands which gave some quality focus on Misty water goal, one of best leagues and several memorable episodes focusing on Misty, Brock or TR.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
I think a lot of people enjoyed Johto, but I can't imagine anyone nowadays wanting to have to go through 3 years in a region with the majority of episodes being filler, even if the majority are entertaining.
 

An00bis

Wicked Witch
Yeah the fact that they don't have as many "stupid wins" in Hoenn is also good.

Thunder Armor.

Aiming for the Horn / Tongue of a Pokemon would technically work from a physical standpoint. To be fair, there were also Pokemon in Kanto who used the reverse strategy to defeat Pikachu (Jeanette Fisher's Bellsprout). What happened in that battle was something that science (or anyone present) couldn't really explain.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
I think a lot of people enjoyed Johto, but I can't imagine anyone nowadays wanting to have to go through 3 years in a region with the majority of episodes being filler, even if the majority are entertaining.

That was the problem for most of us who were already teens when Johto was airing:

- Ash didn't get to capture any cool Pokemon in Johto. They just gave him the starters, gave him ONE evolution over 150 episodes (Bayleef), and dumped Heracross way too fast and Phanpy came too later. His Johto team, at least before Unova, was his worst developed team of the series.

- Gary only appears 3 times prior to the league. For Ash's main rival of the series, its absolutely absurd that Gary barely appeared in Johto at all. Especially since this was his last saga as a main rival.

- Misty and Brock didn't really get as much screentime or development as needed. Aside from May and Dawn, even Iris and Cilan are getting a bit more to do in comparison to Misty/Brock. Why Misty and Brock couldn't get regular tournaments, have rivalries, or battle more often has always been strange.

- WAAAAY too much Ash focus. Again, this goes with above. He's the main character, but it doesn't mean he's the only one to carry the show. Future generations focused on Ash's travel companions much better, and gave them actually proper development in the show.


That being said I did enjoy some parts of Johto, and I really liked the tail-end of Master Quest. My guess is this is the first time the writers were forced to stretch one region out over 3 years, and they had no clue how to do it without just making endless fillers.
 

Haunter ゴースト

Well-Known Member
It's not that nobody likes the fillers, they were actually all very entertaining and fun.

The problem is that a TONNE of them were unnecceserry and ultimately dragged the Johto Saga on for too long that the viewers got bored. The other problem is how they were spaced out horribly giving times where we would have 30 episode gaps between Gym Battles.

Basically, the Johto saga should have been kept short and sweet. Infact, it should have paced itself like Best Wishes. The Best Wishes formula would have suited it fine.
 

overlimit22

Active Member
I like Johto When I was a Kid, But considering that was easily 8-9 Years Ago I Can't really remember much. I Think I Just had different standards back then. Nostalgia probably wouldn't make me change my mind now either.

The Only Filler I've Really hated in Pokemon Is In DP Where it took so long to get to the 8th Gym Battle. So many of those episodes could have been used to make the end of the season feel less rushed and it just Irks me.
 
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