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Is it safe to say Heracross and Donphan are Ash's strongest Johto Pokemon?

Heracross and Donphan really seem to be the only two that could stand side by side with the Kanto/Hoenn/Sinnoh teams and seem just as powerful.

Noctowl is a great psychic battler, but physically its very weak. And then there's the 3 starters, who sad to say, just simply aren't on par with their Kanto/Hoenn/Sinnoh counterparts.

It really feels that Ash's entire Johto team was totally mishandled from start to finish, and even now the writers only care about a select few from that era of Pokemon.
 

Silver_Seoul

Well-Known Member
I'd add in Cynda'Quilava. He racked up more wins in his one region than Charizard did in his first two, and I'd definitely rank him higher than Torkoal.
 

Silver_Seoul

Well-Known Member
Torkoal almost defeated a legendary, that alone puts it higher than Quilava so far.
Yes, because the lucky break of staying at a lab and suddenly standing up to a Legendary eliminates every losing streak it had before and just pales Cyndaquil's win streak into a blackhole.
 

Silver_Seoul

Well-Known Member
lets get this straight torkoal is proberly ash's worse pokemon it is horribly weak and failz and ash strongest johto pokemon are herracross bayleaf and noctowl
Okay, the forums are going crazy. You rank Noctowl above Donphan and Quilava? No doubt Noctowl is a unique powerhouse, now, but seriously. Do people need to be reminded of Cyndaquil having the highest Gym streak so far ? I'm pretty sure he beats even the Blazing Monkey!
 

Swine Trio

Bacon Lover
Well, considering Cyndaquill stood up to the a Steelix, something even Chimchar had trouble with, even with a better move pool, I would rank it about even. And then it trained to the point of evolution with a new move set.

Noctowl falls a bit short, considering it took, like, one hit and went down, in it's league battle. Sucky defense, strong offence.
 

DoleWhip

Well-Known Member
First of all, it's not fair to rank Noctowl lower because it's not a physical battler. Heracross and Donphan aren't special battlers (although they both know hyper beam, but that was never a move given to Ash's special powerhouses), and Noctowl does have a powerful sky attack. It's not surprising that it physically couldn't do much to a Shuckle.

I think Heracross is the strongest, then Donphan, Noctowl, and Quilava (who hasn't had many opportunities to show its strength but was a powerhouse during Johto), then Bayleef and Totodile.

Totodile is definitely Ash's weakest water type, but it's not hopeless. Although comical battles in nature, it did defeat a Kingdra, as well as Harrison's Sneasel that beat Pikachu. And Bayleef could easily be stronger than Torterra. Bayleef's less impressive moveset is a product of Johto times (since DP has introduced more unique TM and HM moves) and wouldn't be an issue if it came back to battle now. But Bayleef single-handedly beat Chuck, and it earned a solid victory over Harrison's Houndoom. Who has Torterra beaten since its time as a Turtwig? Candace's Sneasel and Team Rocket? It has strong moves and a bigger body but hasn't done so well in battle.
 

Silver_Seoul

Well-Known Member
Yes. Although it lacks in power, it has it's dance evasive and that bite which won it many valuable battles.
Yes, because dancing and biting its way to victory about three times compares to Cyndaquil's overall win streak of ~15+.
 

Swine Trio

Bacon Lover
Yes, because dancing and biting its way to victory about three times compares to Cyndaquil's overall win streak of ~15+.
But! But! It was against a newly caught Sneasle, and a random characters Kingdra, and Jessie's Charizard! ALL THREE ARE UBER PROOF!
 

Silver_Seoul

Well-Known Member
But! But! It was against a newly caught Sneasle, and a random characters Kingdra, and Jessie's Charizard! ALL THREE ARE UBER PROOF!
Oh, silly me. :3

Let's list Cyndaquil's Gym wins, alone, shall we? I'll edit this with a list momentarily.
 

Sparklingwater

Well-Known Member
There is really not much to compare Johto pokemon. I find it stupid for people to make it so personal about them in this thread. All of them had their moments, but none of them are like Ash's true powerhouse. You people can argue your heads off about which one is the strongest out of them, but truly the gap between the "strongest" and the "weakest" is only about a level or two. If Heracross is the strongest Johto, and is an 8, then the weakest would be 7.5. Everyone else will fall in between.
 

Aquadon

TCG Trainer
I'll say all but Totodile are strong. Bayleef had her known wins, as did Cyndaquil. Noctowl got a great redemption against Conway, and Heracross was always strong. Donphan has a few good wins, but also some very sloppy losses (Dusknoir? Really?). Heracross is definitely strong, but everyone else sans Totodile have wins and losses all around that made them great.
 

gliscor&yanmega

Well-Known Member
No. Why? Because there is no good way to determine who is stronger then the other. And really who cares? Don't compare Pokemon's strength to each other, just focus on them as individuals.
 

ggx

Banned
This thread have stupid writen all over it and that because of CyberCubed be damn stupid thinking he no everything when it come to other teams like the Johto, but he don't no a damn thing about wether they are strong are not.

Silver Seoul,Cyndaquil's wins are not in the blackhole and they never was for that matter,Cyndaquil's wins are ten times better then Torkoal who didn't even come to defeated that Registeeland he lost that battle in a speed of light,Charizard did beat a legendary Pokemon with out losing the battle,Cyndaquil/Quilava are stronger and have a higher win over Torkoal by a long shot.

The Johto team was never mishandled are even weak from the start to the tell end,they have proven time and time again that the Johto team is strong it is the fans here being so damn stupid like CyberCubed saying that they are weak but they are and never was weak to begin with,the Johto team was always strong from the very start.

DoleWhip,you are really damn wrong you noob idiot,Totodile is not Ash's weak water types and he is a really strong water type Pokemon of Ash's that he ever had,Totodile wins against Harrisons Sneasel,the Kingdra in the Whirl Cups battles,and against Jessie's Charizard,were all real battles those are not comical battles and you are so stupid.


Aquadon,my god here comes another dumb *** noob,Bayleef,Cyndaquil,Totodile,Noctowl,Donphan, Heracross,were all well handled and train really well in battles,Noctowl didn't need any redemption because he wasn't weak are poorly handled,but his battle against Conway was really good and it proves that he wasn't weak to begin with,boy you are so stupid.
 
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Silver_Seoul

Well-Known Member
Here we go:

Scyther
Nidorina
Clefairy (Technically)
Gastly
Steelix
Dewgong

Now someone list me Charizard's Kanto and OI Gym wins. Heck, give me Torkoal and Infernape's just for the heck of it.
 
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