Is it time for Ash to step down?

[JohtoMaster]

(I made this post on Nsider also)

Ash, one of the few who inspired me and was a awesome role model to me when I was a kid. I wanted to dress like him, I wanted to get his hat(which I did), I wanted to think and breath like Ash. It seems Ash has touched the lives of many during his journey to becoming a Pokemon Master. But has Ash even come close to reaching that Plateau?

Ash has competed in 3 big leagues (Kanto, Johto, Hoeon) and smaller competitions such as the Orange League and Battle Frontier. Out of those 5, Ash has only won one Tournament, which is the Orange League. The results have yet to come for the BF though. But after spending basically the whole series trying to be number one, it seems that Ash has fallen short just by a trainer or two and misses the finals. I always wondered what it would be like when Ash faced the Elite 4, but it seems that When has yet to wait once more.

I would have liked to see Ash's journey come to a end or a hault after the Johto league. The series was not getting any better, but more of a downfall. In the Johto League, Ash made some historic marks in his life. Things such as encountering Entei, Suicune, Celibi, etc, including encountering Mewtwo for a second time. Ash also saw Lugia, which led him to see one of his greatest rival and friend Richie. Ash met one of the best trainers of them all, Lance. Ash finally discovers the legendary Pokemon that he encountered in the first episode with the help of Mort (4th gym leader) At the end of the Johto league, Ash faces his rival Gary, the one who was always better than Ash, and Ash beats him.

I know that this may seem like a Grocery list, because it is. Ash has done so much and all of that resulted in 3 seasons of Pokemon and as a result, Ash came up empty. Who knows, maybe these three seasons were to get more journeys and things to remember with before Misty split up and the show went down hill. I heard that during the Johto league, Ash was suppose to kiss Misty. I was actually waiting for that to happen, but it was just a silly rumor

Now with Hoeon, it seems like there is no excitement with Ash. Sure he has a new look and he gets all new Pokemon, but is this the first time that it has happened? I give Ash alot of credit for doing what he has done. Raising all of those Pokemon, especially those who gave him problems (Charizard) I consider Ash to be one of the greatest trainers, but why would one of those lose all the time, and seeing what could be improved on for next time.

I think Ash has come a long way. I would love to see him stay, but only if he could become better than what he has been. When the Kanto saga ended, my friends rumored that the new G/S/C character would be taking his place. I found this kid to be even color than Ash at one point and it would have been awesome if there is a spin-off with this guy and the red haired rival. It could have had alot of drama with Team Rocket coming back after three years, just like the games. This all possibly could have changed the way of the look of the anime, besides these repeats of Ash losing and team rocket blasting off again.

So what do you think?

 

[nekusagi]

Ash will never leave the show. It would be nice, but it's not gonna happen.

 

[JohtoMaster]

That's what alot of people said about Yugi leaving Yugioh, that it would never happen. He was the star of his own show and look what happened. Now the show is much more interesting, even if you are not a yugioh fan

 

[Kabuto]

Ok, listen carefully. Ash is named after the creator of Pokemon Satoshi. He is based on the creator himself. We've had him for 9 years. Why watch a new kid do the same things Ash has been doing anyway.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

That's what alot of people said about Yugi leaving Yugioh, that it would never happen. He was the star of his own show and look what happened. Now the show is much more interesting, even if you are not a yugioh fan

What? GX is universally loathed by everyone, and has nothing to do with the original creator.

I don't want Satoshi to leave Pocket Monsters. He's still interesting, and it just wouldn't be the same show without him.

 

[CyberCubed]

Hmmm...

It seems Ash has touched the lives of many during his journey to becoming a Pokemon Master. But has Ash even come close to reaching that Plateau?

Ash's journey is not a short one, that much is certain. Each and every region he's become a much better trainer than the previous one, so he's certainly getting there.

Ash has competed in 3 big leagues (Kanto, Johto, Hoeon) and smaller competitions such as the Orange League and Battle Frontier.

I'd place the Battle Frontier above any of the others, as the Brains seem stronger than your average Gym leader and this apparently is an invite-only thing.

Out of those 5, Ash has only won one Tournament, which is the Orange League. The results have yet to come for the BF though. But after spending basically the whole series trying to be number one, it seems that Ash has fallen short just by a trainer or two and misses the finals.

That's because he still has a long way to go. If he won a league, that's great, but he'd still travel to the next region to compete in the following leagues. Winning a single league does not make you the greatest trainer in the world, the writers have made that much an obvious point.

I would have liked to see Ash's journey come to a end or a hault after the Johto league. The series was not getting any better, but more of a downfall.

Luckily AG reversed the downfall completely, and now the show is in its prime for the most part.

I know that this may seem like a Grocery list, because it is. Ash has done so much and all of that resulted in 3 seasons of Pokemon and as a result, Ash came up empty.

I wouldn't consider coming in the Top 16, winning the Orange Islands, and coming in the Top 8th twice to be "coming up empty." He doesn't need to win the entire thing to show that he's improving. He's caught, trained and evolved a lot of his Pokemon. He's met many friends and has saved the world a half dozen times from legendary Pokemon. It's a success story more or less.

Who knows, maybe these three seasons were to get more journeys and things to remember with before Misty split up and the show went down hill.

The show got better when Misty left, the show didn't go downhill. AG for the most part, has been critically acclaimed because it's on par with the 1st season. They got rid of the dead weight (Misty), brought in a female lead (May), and revived a stale series.

I don't see how you can say anything of AG is worse than either Johto or the Orange Islands.

I heard that during the Johto league, Ash was suppose to kiss Misty. I was actually waiting for that to happen, but it was just a silly rumor

You shouldn't listen to silly rumours then...that was never going to happen.

Sure he has a new look and he gets all new Pokemon, but is this the first time that it has happened?

He is also a mentor now and has taken May under his wing, along with her little brother who learns from him. AG is to show how much an improvement Ash has made over his old Kanto/Johto days.

I think Ash has come a long way. I would love to see him stay, but only if he could become better than what he has been.

Um, he has.

It doesn't take a genius to see that AG Ash > Kanto/Johto Ash in terms of training and battling ability.

When the Kanto saga ended, my friends rumored that the new G/S/C character would be taking his place. I found this kid to be even color than Ash at one point and it would have been awesome if there is a spin-off with this guy and the red haired rival. It could have had alot of drama with Team Rocket coming back after three years, just like the games. This all possibly could have changed the way of the look of the anime, besides these repeats of Ash losing and team rocket blasting off again.

It's the same writers. No matter what they do, the show will be the same.

I'm trying to figure out why "getting rid of Ash and co." would magically change the way the show is written.

All we'd get is some new dumb 10 year old kid starting his journey and doing all the same crap Ash did anyway.

Kenta in the Raikou special acting more or less the same as Ash. It's the same thing.

So what do you think?

Considering you don't seem to like AG, we disagee completely.

 

[Kamex]

That's what alot of people said about Yugi leaving Yugioh, that it would never happen. He was the star of his own show and look what happened. Now the show is much more interesting, even if you are not a yugioh fan

Yeah, even Yugi's name the name of the show. But unlike many other series, Kazuki Takahashi decided to end the main Yugioh story while it was still somewhat fresh, instead of dragging it on too far. As for GX, I think it was a nice way to continue the series without extending the original story too much, but I don't for a second think the show is much more interesting than it was before.

As for Advanced Generation, I don't think having a new main character would do much good, unless the writers were to alter the main idea of the story quite a bit.

BTW, is there an anime version of the any Pokemon manga? Like Pokemon Special? If not, it'd be interesting to see how that went... although it might be a little too much like our current Pokemon anime.

 

[ChaosMage]

It seems almost as if you think that being in the top 8 in the Hoenn League, which had several hundred contestents, all of which were capable of defeating 8 Hoenn gym leaders (and they were a fair bit tougher in Hoenn than they'd been in previous regions), and coming very close to defeating the trainer who eventually won the league with a team of pokemon which you haven't been training for all that long isn't very impressive. And another Kanto-Ash rip-off? I wouldn't watch it, I'll tell you that!

 

[JohtoMaster]

It's funny how you all are trying to bring me down with your posts. You see I stopped watching the show after Team Rocket blasted off for the 109234u02q3u40q348u019348012480124801293480ew98r02384203802385023948 time and such. Ash really has done well, coming near the finals for everything. I am not just talking about Advanced Generation or whatever it is called, I am talking about the franchise of Pokemon. I would like to see a new trainer start out much fresh and experiences instead of seeing the same thing happen over and over. Ash beating the leaders/trainers, team rocket blasting off, and Ash coming up short.

 

[CyberCubed]

You asked what we thought, I replied. If you weren't looking for a debate, why bother making this thread?

New trainers = May. She's a new beginning trainer with a fresh experience and her own unique goal. You got what you wanted, so what are you complaining about?

Likewise if you aren't watching AG then how can you have an opinion on what Ash is doing, how good the show is, and what's going on? If you haven't watched any of Pokemon Advanced, you don't really have a good point to base your argument on. Besides, new characters WOULD be the same thing. It's the same writers, what are you expecting?

 

[Ralts Master]

I'm sure my position of "Ash should never have been in Hoenn" is well-known by now...

 

[nameless]

It's funny how you all are trying to bring me down with your posts.

So what do you think?

They gave you their thoughts on it which you asked for.

And besides kid, I'm not so sure how to explain this to you but the whole point of the franchise is to sell. They make games, they base the anime on it and advertise the pokemon from that region. It's the Pokemon and games that sell, not the main characters.

As Cybercube said, even if they change the character, which again would be pointless, it's still the same thing which you said your already annoyed with.

You see I stopped watching the show after Team Rocket blasted off for the 109234u02q3u40q348u019348012480124801293480ew98r02384203802385023948 time and such.

Ash really has done well, coming near the finals for everything. I am not just talking about Advanced Generation or whatever it is called, I am talking about the franchise of Pokemon. I would like to see a new trainer start out much fresh and experiences instead of seeing the same thing happen over and over. Ash beating the leaders/trainers, team rocket blasting off, and Ash coming up short.

You complain about reptitiveness, yet even with a new rookie character we'll still end up seeing him/her more or less going through the same trials that Ash went through. Go to new region, see and capture new pokemon, meet powerful trainers, blast TR off, beat gym leaders and compete in league, repeat cycle.

I don't understand how you cannot see that. Even with May in AG, a new character, she's more or less running through a similar gauntlet. Go to new region, blast off TR, see new and capture pokemon, compete in contests, and then leagues, repeat cycle.

That and Pikachu is the established identity of pokemon, ask anyone these days about pokemon and they'll quickly reply, "the show with the yellow rat?"

And you'll probably say, "then give the new character a pikachu," then again, it'll be the same thing all over again.

 

[ChaosMage]

Reasons Ash SHOULD have been in Hoenn-

-To mentor May, something we haven't seen any trainer do full-time
-His pokemon rox yo sox
-Because he still needs to win a league at some point
-Because n00b trainers like Kanto-Ash suck, and are pretty redundant
-Pikachu, everyone's fifth favourite electric mouse pokemon, will always need to be in the series

And many, many more...

 

[pikachu!]

Ash will never leave ash is like the main char if ash left the show wuould be stuipd. Yugioh change but pokemon wont!

 

[Raevell]

Wow, I can't imagine Ash leaving. Considering he's one of my favorite characters I would be pretty upset if he left. Luckily I don't see this happening, Ash the entire show is based on following Ash around. The Japanese public still likes Satoshi as well from what I can gather.

I do have to say, it's hard to base an opinion on something you've never seen. I don't understand how you can complain about a season that you haven't watched.

I don't see them doing to Pokemon and Ash what they did to Yugi-Oh. The show is doing well, especially in Japan (the movie was 2nd in box office sales concerning Japanese produced movies in Japan) I think it would be a very stupid move to drop a main character simply because they want to do something different. You can't and shouldn't do that when the show is doing well.

They have made changes, to say AG is like Johto only goes to prove you certainly haven't watch it. They brought in a new character, they've done tons of character development with Ash, and he continues to improve as a trainer. Yes, the show can be redundant, but so are a ton of other shows.

Take a look at the shows we in America produce; they're all law shows and crime shows and it's continuously the same exact thing. Someone murdered, find bad guy, DNA, prosecute, win or lose. Week after week after week this is what we watch.

Either way the shows are remaining interesting enough that they are bringing in an audience week after week. Pokemon is a prime time show in Tokyo.

I can see exactly where you're coming from though. I would love to see a few changes here and there but at the time it just isn't going to happen.

Excuse me for making a judgment on you, but it sounds like you're also a bit agitated with AG simply because Misty left and you didn't get the pokeshipping you expected at the end of Johto.

Anyway, as of now, Ash isn't going anywhere. And I wouldn't want him to.

 

[JohtoMaster]

I did watch most of the Advanced Generation and I was pretty amazed on how the changes occured. With updated graphics and new looks, I was pretty impressed. But what I am trying to say is that I wish that the show could explore more darker things, like encountering shadow Pokemon, that would be really neat.

Sure you have the movies and you have Team Magma and Aqua, but I am not much into the series anymore and I am just no longer interested.

 

[Geki]

Ash is by far my favorite character, and if they writers removed him, I would stop watching the anime. I'll never have to worry though, they'll never remove Ash and Pikachu.

 

[ViNe WhIp]

That would be the best thing to ever happen to Pokémon. Theres other changes I'd like to see like Jessie and James being fired and Meowth being assigned to a new couple, and for the love of god quit with the blasting off thing it was funny for what? The first 20 eps? If that but not anymore, have the new lead character start with a new pokemon something common like the Pokémon that appear on the first route in each game, have the chosen three from the beginning town stay together on their journy so the spotlight can be shifted around and isn't always on one character.

 

[sweethart_772002]

Oh...I love this. 8D

After watching Pokemon for years now, I have come to a conclusion that Ash is pretty much a static (is that the right word for it?), non-dynamic, character, who get ALL the credit, and now has lost all appeal to me ever since the end of the Jhoto seasons, and the beginning of the Hoenn season.

The Hoenn season, seemed too redundant for me. Everything Ash was going through was too predictable, and a lot of old stuff were being recycled. Like Ash's encounterment with May; In my opinion, it should have been more original, than having Ash destroy ANOTHER bike. =P

During the entire Pokemon series, Ash, in my opinion (once again), got too much credit for himself, and the spotlight was shined on him, just a bit much, for my taste. The Celebi movie, for one, I thought Sam should have gotten his chance to save Celebi, and revive Celebi in his arms, but no, Ash did it. =P

It also feels pretty cliche to see "the strong, young hero, reach the finals, but then loses for some stupid reason, even though you know he's strong enough to get through it" kinda thing. IMO it's like a official Mary-Sue, trying to be an underdog.

Also being on the subject of Mary-Sues, Ash has encountered pretty much ALL the Legendary Pokemon. Those pokemon, having some kind of connection/predicament with him.

I've always been eager to see the R/S/E characters, like Wally,and Brendan, star in at least ONE episode. Felt to me, that Ash is just taking over yet another region...filled with mishaps...adventure...yada-yada...doing the same ol'... (Though I'm happy May came in. =D There's one thing I'm happy about.)

The Pokemon World doesn't revolve around one young trainer, and his glories. It's about a community of people and thier bonds with thier Pokemon.
I want to see another trainer star taking his/her own journey through thier own region, and seeing how he/she reacts in given situations, maybe similar to Ash's--what ever!

I ask myself this a lot from time to time, which I really must get out of my head, and let someone else answer it >_<!

-Why hasn't any of the other major characters (Like Brock, Misty, etc.)gotten a bit more recognition like Ash has? You know, like his achiements in the movies and stuff like that.

And that's why I'm sick of Ash...=P (Though I still love him =] but, he needs to let someone else shine in his place every once in a while.)

I agree on your opinion. Ash NEEDS to step down. At least for a bit. (Something like how the Pokemon Special manga has it...yeah.) Pokemon wouldn't be the same without him.

[Edit]

That would be the best thing to ever happen to Pokémon. Theres other changes I'd like to see like Jessie and James being fired and Meowth being assigned to a new couple, and for the love of god quit with the blasting off thing it was funny for what? The first 20 eps?

Heh...I agree with you.

We need to rotate the villains around from region to region as well. It'd be fun to see a Team Aqua/Magma members hunting Ash and Co. down. xD; Then, if Ash goes back to Kanto, or whatever, Team Rocket would be back > and so on and so forth...(Catch my drift?)

If that but not anymore, start with a new pokemon, have the chosen three from the beginning town stay togeter on their journy

I'm all for that too! ~_~!
(Would be nice, for a change.)

 

[ViNe WhIp]

I totally agree with sweehart_772002's post. Btw I changed some things in my post around a bit to be a little more clear.