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Is our Protagonist too weak?

Discussion in 'Animé Spoilers' started by LizardonX, Mar 2, 2013.

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  1. LizardonX

    LizardonX Banned

    By this I mean Ash, he's always the underdog approximately 99.99999% of the time, struggling to defeat even the most basic of opponents. Shouldn't he at least be able to show any degree of competency?
     
  2. diakyu

    diakyu Well-Known Member

    He does show degrees of competency. But they usually only happen near the middle and/or at the end of the saga.

    And a show without an underdog protagonist is lame.
     
  3. Blue Saturday

    Blue Saturday too fly

    Ash is a Shounen underdog archetype character. He will not win all the time. That's just that.
     
  4. LizardonX

    LizardonX Banned

    He' still the only shonen protag I know to still remain so weak after 700 episodes. Even naruto and yuma from zexal got better.
     
  5. Haunter ゴースト

    Haunter ゴースト Well-Known Member

    80% of the time, Ash is shown as too weak (BW especially).

    Overall we know Ash is an incredibly strong trainer, however despite this the writers make every single battle a challenge for him. They always make it look like he's struggling to win (because of X Pokemon or X Stategy). This sucks, because when he does win it always makes it feel like he only just got away with it.

    I missed the early episodes of Johto when Charizard was shown as too strong which Misty and Brock commented on. I also miss when Ash was too cocky for getting multiple wins in a row in AG, which ultimately Drake had to stop.
     
  6. Cresselia92

    Cresselia92 SM Ash = New Ash

    Agreed. It would be cool if even after all this time Ash shows some progress, but still has to learn after all this time. I mean, a person can always to learn new stuff. So even if they temporarily "overpower" him at the beginning of the new series, I don't think that thing is necessarily bad.

    And no, with that I don't mean "Ash must beat everything in his path". Just... keep him more consistent.
     
  7. Janovy

    Janovy Banned

    No, he's just as he should be. No one wants a protagonist who's badass and completely unbeatable.
     
  8. moneylesswario

    moneylesswario Shudo's Powerhouses

    No he's not weak enough
     
  9. Cresselia92

    Cresselia92 SM Ash = New Ash

    Nobody is asking for that (a part some people). What people want is more coherence, nothing more. I mean, isn't better to see Ash saying "Oh, I must weaken a Pokemon before catching it!" instead of mindlessly throwing his Poke Ball at Pokemon (Deerling and Snivy), if they really need to teach that lesson to children?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  10. AceDetective

    AceDetective Banned

    I always figured it was because of the intended audience. Pokemon is designed for young kids, who probably aren't that good at gaming so they struggle just as much as Ash, meaning they relate to him more
     
  11. sandy ketchum

    sandy ketchum Well-Known Member

    Ash has always been an underdog. he doesnt make any real progression. he travels through four regions and he doesnt even know how to catch a pokemon. he acts like an experienced trainer in the middle and ending of a saga. in the beginning of a one he acts like a noob.
     
  12. Janovy

    Janovy Banned

    Um, the first post seems to imply that Ash hasn't shown any degree of competency which is completely wrong.
     
  13. TheFonz

    TheFonz Pokemon Semi-Master

    People always say that Ash winning everything wouldn't be entertaining. I agree, he's not Yugi who has to win everything or get banished to the Shadow Realm. Ash is on a journey

    However, the opposite extreme is worse. Barely winning anything. That's how it is in BW. I can't believe it, it's no fun seeing Ash being put down to make someone look powerful. I didn't like it against Drew and Kenny, and I really don't like how it's increased
     
  14. Yeah he is too weak, but it's because the show needs to keep his battles interesting. It would get boring fast if he were to stay overpowered and have very little losses in a new series. It's for marketing reasons too. Ash was apparently supposed to win the Indigo League, but the franchise was so popular that G/S came out and the anime continued on too. It'll probably go on like this with Ash never winning a league unless the show finally concludes due to the games losing popularity and the anime's ratings dropping to new all time lows.
     
  15. I was just about to say that, however, badassary is actually trendy among characters. Not that I personally want a uber h4xor character, of course.

    But yeah, Satoshi can't win all the time not only that but he can't win against characters who logically he can't beat. I'd be raising an eyebrow if he WERE to win against Kotetsu or Takuto. Just saying.
     
  16. LizardonX

    LizardonX Banned

    You have a point there. The solution is obviously to turn pokemon into a shadow game :)

    If Ash was on the same level as your average 8 year old who just got to BW postgame I honestly think it would be an imporvement. At least he would have 1 fully evolved starter.
     
  17. TheFonz

    TheFonz Pokemon Semi-Master

    Um...he SHOULD be able to beat Kotetsu. As for Takuto...he should be able to do better than 1HKOs
     
  18. i disagree, especially with the hydreigon, samurott and the lucario. (and against a oshawott, snivy etc). Now that I think about it, if Satoshi could beat a darkrai with a sceptile and have his pikachu tie with a latios... then i don't think he's too weak at all.
     
  19. TheFonz

    TheFonz Pokemon Semi-Master

    He beat a Metagross owned by an older more competent trainer two series ago with Swellow, Grovyle, and Pikachu. Boldore and Pignite should have been more than enough.

    As for Samurott and Lucario...Pikachu beat Samurott with barely any trouble. And Lucario was absolute bull. Riolu should not be KOing fully evolved Normal/Flying types and yet getting beaten terribly by Snivy
     
  20. Cresselia92

    Cresselia92 SM Ash = New Ash

    The same Pikachu that lost to a Panpour. Ash has been outsmarted in that battle. :p

    The strength of a Pokemon doesn't automatically mean that his Trainer is strong, you know.

    But... I think that during a battle a lot of factors influence the outcome of said match. And I feel that in BW Ash has been less creative than in previous regions.
     
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