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Is our Protagonist too weak?

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Rohanator

Well-Known Member
We can only hope that the next series is to BW what AG was to the OS, where he doesn't horribly regress in between and it feels more like a continuation. BW was probably more reboot like(it's NOT a reboot, but you should get what I mean) because the BW games were more like a new beginning with no old gen Pokes and a region some where else than Japan for the first time.

And replacing Ash most likely wouldn't help them. The main reason so many older fans still care about this show is because it's still the same guy at it. If they make an actual new beginning it'll be easy to drop out of it. I can't imagine the newer seasons of show's like Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh! having the same kind of loyal following as the newer series of Pokemon do. At least that's how it is for me.
 
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LizardonX

Banned
You didn't really need all that other stuff, and could have just said this. The writers don't really seem to want to advance him anymore, even though the theme of the show IS about getting better. Nothing ever really STICKS with him, whether it's stuff he has to learn again or just conveniently forgets about. Regardless of the show is about the "journey" you still keep consistent development.

They could at least show Ash losing his knowledge of how to capture a pokemon onscreen by lots of sleep and relaxation or something..
We can only hope that the next series is to BW what AG was to the OS, where he doesn't horribly regress in between and it feels more like a continuation. BW was probably more reboot like(it's NOT a reboot, but you should get what I mean) because the BW games were more like a new beginning with no old gen Pokes and a region some where else than Japan for the first time.

And replacing Ash most likely wouldn't help them. The main reason so many older fans still care about this show is because it's still the same guy at it. If they make an actual new beginning it'll be easy to drop out of it. I can't imagine the newer seasons of show's like Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh! having the same kind of loyal following as the newer series of Pokemon do. At least that's how it is for me.

5Ds has almost as large a fanbase as the original provided you can see past CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES!
 

TheFonz

Pokemon Semi-Master
They could at least show Ash losing his knowledge of how to capture a pokemon onscreen by lots of sleep and relaxation or something..


5Ds has almost as large a fanbase as the original provided you can see past CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES!

5Ds is very different. It has a very different feel than the series before it. A lot of things got changed in the game too, it's nothing at all like it was. That's why Pokémon should remain the same way
 

LizardonX

Banned
5Ds is very different. It has a very different feel than the series before it. A lot of things got changed in the game too, it's nothing at all like it was. That's why Pokémon should remain the same way

Well from my own experience a good number of people were turned off by the concept of turbo dueling but almost everyone who stuck it out loved the new atmosphere and a strong MC without an outside spirit living inside him.
 

TheFonz

Pokemon Semi-Master
Well from my own experience a good number of people were turned off by the concept of turbo dueling but almost everyone who stuck it out loved the new atmosphere and a strong MC without an outside spirit living inside him.

Oh I didn't mean Turbo duels. I didn't mind CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES. You can duel anyway possible. I meant like it being such a distant future and there weren't any past references. It seemed so random to me after how connected the other two series were. It seemed like they changed a lot in how the Yu-Gi-Oh! World worked.

That's what I like about Pokémon. It's at least consistent in that way
 

LizardonX

Banned
Oh I didn't mean Turbo duels. I didn't mind CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES. You can duel anyway possible. I meant like it being such a distant future and there weren't any past references. It seemed so random to me after how connected the other two series were. It seemed like they changed a lot in how the Yu-Gi-Oh! World worked.

That's what I like about Pokémon. It's at least consistent in that way
They mentioned KaibaCorp and Satellite was domino city 20 or so years in the futre. Plus Ushio/Trudge was the same bully who beat up yugi in school. Now if you talk zexal then you have a point. Only reference was the one filler with the statues.

Again what that show has taught us is that you can be sucessful with strong MCs from the start.
 

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
Tl;dr: Its just lazy writing to keep Ash be an inconsistent trainer when he's shown consistency with May in AG by helping her, just to end up being a newbie like her in BW. Even it caters to a new audience now, its just lazy to not want Ash to develop as a character.

Yaaaaaas, it's about time someone pointed out how lazy it is to give up developing a character and give into inconsistency. And what makes it worse is that we never get an in-anime explanation for it. I mean I can definitely read the writers; they're being careful not to make Ash into an all-powerful trainer, but they're doing the most with the regression stuff. Ash's rivalry with Trip comes to mind at once; I screamed when Trip's Snivy clocked Ash's Pikachu like it was nothing. And yeah, obviously Pikachu was weakened from having his electric powers taken by Zekrom, but it was still a ridiculous outcome since Pikachu still had Quick Attack and Iron Tail. Like, I don't mean to be pressed and repeat the same thing over and over again, but Ash's Pikachu might as well not battle if he's going to get dragged through filth by weak opponents. And I don't think I have to even bother mentioning all the other battles that Ash and Trip had that were either completely one-sided (in Trip's favor basically) or draws. Like, I can't stand how the writers pay dust to the protagonist, and I think it's about time they had several seats and attempted to actually develop Ash correctly.
 

Graham Aker

Well-Known Member
Like, I can't stand how the writers pay dust to the protagonist, and I think it's about time they had several seats and attempted to actually develop Ash correctly.

I don't think the writers want to see him develop correctly anymore. If Pikachu is so important to the series, then have another trainer start off with a Pikachu. As I said, it's not like Ash's Pikachu really has a distinguishable personality anymore anyway.
 
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TheFonz

Pokemon Semi-Master
They mentioned KaibaCorp and Satellite was domino city 20 or so years in the futre. Plus Ushio/Trudge was the same bully who beat up yugi in school. Now if you talk zexal then you have a point. Only reference was the one filler with the statues.

Again what that show has taught us is that you can be sucessful with strong MCs from the start.

It's a lot more than 20 with that advance in technology and no sign of Yugi, Joey, Kaiba, and Pegasus. Like who even runs KaibaCorp? Trudge would be a lot older if it was the same guy...I have no idea why they have him

Anyways probably shouldn't be talking about that...

About Pikachu VS Snivy...they could have played it off better if it was shown Pikachu was actually weakened but Ash and Pikachu didn't notice during the battle. Then Ash and Trip should have had a 3 on 3 with Ash only using the Unova starters.

There. Major plot inconsistence solved in a few minutes. Not hard at all
 

LizardonX

Banned
It's a lot more than 20 with that advance in technology and no sign of Yugi, Joey, Kaiba, and Pegasus. Like who even runs KaibaCorp? Trudge would be a lot older if it was the same guy...I have no idea why they have him

Anyways probably shouldn't be talking about that...

About Pikachu VS Snivy...they could have played it off better if it was shown Pikachu was actually weakened but Ash and Pikachu didn't notice during the battle. Then Ash and Trip should have had a 3 on 3 with Ash only using the Unova starters.

There. Major plot inconsistence solved in a few minutes. Not hard at all

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Tetsu_Ushio

Same person. As to who runs kaiba corp, probably unimportant off screen characters who work closely with the security force.

You're veering off into fanfic land again. I could say what if Ash used very smart tactics such as having swellow crack open a legendary's head, aim for the armor, or counter shielding to defeat tobias but in the end of the day it solves nothing.
 

TheFonz

Pokemon Semi-Master
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Tetsu_Ushio

Same person. As to who runs kaiba corp, probably unimportant off screen characters who work closely with the security force.

You're veering off into fanfic land again. I could say what if Ash used very smart tactics such as having swellow crack open a legendary's head, aim for the armor, or counter shielding to defeat tobias but in the end of the day it solves nothing.

That's crazy! Now it makes me actually dislike 5Ds...

You're right, but you gotta admit that whole situation needed tweaking in its writing. It didn't even go anywhere
 

LizardonX

Banned
That's crazy! Now it makes me actually dislike 5Ds...

You're right, but you gotta admit that whole situation needed tweaking in its writing. It didn't even go anywhere

Well if Ushio surviving 20-30 years makes you dislike a series then okay..I've seen worse XD. Also keep in mind momentum effectively provides infinite amounts of electricity so development of new tech would naturally speed up.

They couldn't even do a top percentage joke with the snivy XD
 

pokedigijedi

Saiyan Jedi
"is our protagonist too weak" you ask?
yes, and i shall try to put it in a way that will hopefully not seem like character bashing, when you travel to new regions ignoring all your old vets(if pokemon was real that is) when they could become an asset in training and mentoring new characters you obtain and dont bother trying to remember anything you learn with an ally who loses power eveytime he enters a new region then yes id say your kind of weak and not too terribly bright.

probabely not the best example im not 100% sure if it makes sense but it was the first thing to come to mind.

on a joking level ash has the iq of a conoli and the skills of a pebble. plus he is cursed by the stubborn and bland writers to remain the same age until the series finale i like the japanese works but sometimes they seem kind of nuts i apologize if i was in anyway sounding offensive.
 

PokemonTrainerKaden

Well-Known Member
Personally.. I'm just sick and tired of ash getting "reset" at the beginning of the series and "forgetting" pokemon type match ups and getting over confident... It's just tiresome to watch him learn the same things over and over... And I get its because of new viewers and younger viewers, but I definitely believe they need to start showing that ash actually HAS been on all these other journeys before... I mean.. What REALLY pissed me off lol was that Ash took on the battle pyramid and Pikachu took on a top class trainer with a legendary pokemon (regice) and won... Like 2 episodes later he struggles to beat a Bidoof or whatever it was at the start of D/P... And then in the next series where Pikachu should ONLY be stronger, it looses to a snivy in its first ever battle, I know it couldn't use ele tric attacks... But it's quick attack would have beaten it in one hit lol

Effectively my rant above is summerised in my opening statement... IM TIRED OF ASH ALWAYS BEING RESET!

This is heavily my opinion. I haven't really watched the show since half way through D/P, but I still get upset that he's being reset and being made out to look like an idiot in front of the new viewers. I don't mind him starting with only Pikachu, even I when I get a new game trade my Infernape for my starter and then use the new pokemon that I catch, but his strategies have just gotten cheap from what I've seen of BW. I think what made me most mad was when he lost to Trip with that Snivy in it's first battle ever and Trip got that huge ego boost. It was a fluke, and wasn't even Pikachu's fault, it was Zekroms.
 

WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
Yes Ash is weak. Well at least in Best Wishes. Like many have stated, that regression in the beginning of the sagas doesnt help at all. In DP, they made him be competent and have a ton of on-screen training. In BW, he can't even win a simple tournament. What's the point in creating new tactics if they are going to ignore them anyway? Where's the Counter Shield?
 

matt0044

Well-Known Member
the Anime would be pretty boring if he was strong and kept winning battles nya~

First, we're not asking for Ash to win every battle but show more consistency and growth as a Trainer.

Second, see my previous post.

I think Toriko, Goku, Kenshiro and others would like to have a word with you. And even then, they struggle to earn their victories. I hate this notion that a badass, smart main character from the get-go is inherently bad. Like most things, it depends on the writing.

And while a underdog character isn't bad, it's their development and growth that makes them truly good where we see them go from "fair" to "great." Sadly with Ash, it's not handled very well as others have point out. And don't get me started on BW...
 

Caseydia

Ace Trainer
By this I mean Ash, he's always the underdog approximately 99.99999% of the time, struggling to defeat even the most basic of opponents. Shouldn't he at least be able to show any degree of competency?

The writers do what they want. I've realized that now. If Best Wishes turned out different then I would have said no. If the ywant him to get real good, then they would do another Sinnoh/Hoenn type league, if not then what's there is what's there. It all depends on the writing formate for him and his pokemon. It's not really Ash's fault that Pikachu got reset and weak, it's them making it so that it doesn't look like it's level 200 for kids starting to watch the show.
 

matt0044

Well-Known Member
If Pokemon was real, realistically you probably wouldn't win a league, multiple times.

The downside is how the story is dragged out seemingly infinitely which not a lot of viewers will have the patience to sit for. It can be realistic, no doubt, but making sure the story doesn't suffer is the real challenge.
 

LizardonX

Banned
The writers do what they want. I've realized that now. If Best Wishes turned out different then I would have said no. If the ywant him to get real good, then they would do another Sinnoh/Hoenn type league, if not then what's there is what's there. It all depends on the writing formate for him and his pokemon. It's not really Ash's fault that Pikachu got reset and weak, it's them making it so that it doesn't look like it's level 200 for kids starting to watch the show.

I dont like how they think kids onky start watching at the beginning of a region.
 
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