Is Red really the strongest 'Dex Holder?

[PokemonOwn]

Red is clearly the strongest Dex holder. And for those that mention the battle against Bruno (The 1st time), that was Lorelei that mainly defeated him. Even Gold, who manages to finally defeat The Masked Man, asked him for training to beat Silver, who, to be fair, is a carbon copy of Green (Girl), despite the fact that they were joined together since the very beginning.

Blue is also rather good competition - To be honest, I'd be looking forward to an epic battle between the main protagonists (Red, Gold, Ruby, Pearl & Black) against all of their rivals (Blue, Silver, Sapphire, Diamond and White).

I also think it would be good for all of the female counterparts to have an epic battle, or something along those lines.

But yea - Red all the way. ;D

 

[Weedy Spyze]

Red is clearly the strongest Dex holder.

Not clearly. Why don't you explain why he is "clearly" the strongest, instead of just simply stating it.

Oh and by the way, Diamond is the male protagonist (Lucas' conterpart) and Pearl is the rival (Barry's counterpart).

 

[PokemonOwn]

Not clearly. Why don't you explain why he is "clearly" the strongest, instead of just simply stating it.

Oh and by the way, Diamond is the male protagonist (Lucas' conterpart) and Pearl is the rival (Barry's counterpart).

Sorry, I forget the nature of the Sinnoh Manga. :/

The reason for this is because he WAS the original Dex Holder. His title is "The Battler" and even Prof. Oak entrusted him with a Pokedex rather quickly, as compared to other Dex holders such as Yellow and Gold. Red, as MrMineEpik has stated has been training for the longest of the bunch (Barring Blue, who was trained since he was about five by Chuck). He has been the Pokedex holder that has had their Pokemon the longest (By his short backstory, it looks like he had Poliwag at about the age of three).

 

[Weedy Spyze]

Sorry, I forget the nature of the Sinnoh Manga. :/

The reason for this is because he WAS the original Dex Holder. His title is "The Battler" and even Prof. Oak entrusted him with a Pokedex rather quickly, as compared to other Dex holders such as Yellow and Gold. Red, as MrMineEpik has stated has been training for the longest of the bunch (Barring Blue, who was trained since he was about five by Chuck). He has been the Pokedex holder that has had their Pokemon the longest (By his short backstory, it looks like he had Poliwag at about the age of three).

Blue (Oak's grandson) was the original Dexholder, not Red. I've already established that Oak is a tad senile when it comes to entrusting his Pokedexes, since he seems to contradict himself rather frequently on what he thinks a Pokedex holder "should be" I guess. I'll elaborate more if you need me to. Ruby was also trained at or before the age of five, by his father Norman, and has also exhibited many battle skills that are in my opinion, more impressive than stuff Red has shown. We don't know what age Red was when he got Poliwag, and every single dexholder sans Yellow, Sapphire, Emerald, Platinum, and White are all known to have Pokemon from a young age. Silver for example, has had his Sneasel ever since he was two. Gold grew up in a house full of Pokemon, and has been around them since birth. Black had his Munna and Rufflet at the age of five, nine years before he started on his journey around Unova.

For the record, Red is actually my favorite character, which is why a picture of him is my avatar. I just don't think there's any real evidence that he's the "strongest" Dexholder, nor do I think he needs to be. I don't think there needs to be a definite strongest at all. Red is obviously stronger than a few of the other Dexholders, but there are also others who I think could be his match. If you want me to elaborate, I've already done so here: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showth...-strongest-Dex-Holder&p=14855078#post14855078.

 

[Recon]

Emerald got the Tactics Symbol at the end of the Emerald Arc.

Nuff said.

 

[Doodlebug]

i dunno, i always thought that Emerald won cause it is the "Emerald arc" and cuz its his "arc" they had to make him win or something...
but thats just me -_-;

 

[TeamGalacticMars]

I think he is the strongest I mean he has level 80 Pokemon!|:| He is tough to beat in the game to!

 

[lolipiece]

I think he is the strongest I mean he has level 80 Pokemon!|:| He is tough to beat in the game to!

1. So what. A level 1 Rattata could beat a level 80 Pokemon.

2. This. Is. Not. The. Games. Stop applying game logic to this series. It doesn't work that way. Those Red's aren't even the same one.

 

[Doodlebug]

1. So what. A level 1 Rattata could beat a level 80 Pokemon.

how does that work? O_O

 

[Electrolled]

Teach it Endeavor and Quick attack and attach a Focus Sash :3

Endeavor brings the other Pokemon down to 1 HP, and Quick Attack faints it.

 

[Doodlebug]

Teach it Endeavor and Quick attack and attach a Focus Sash :3

Endeavor brings the other Pokemon down to 1 HP, and Quick Attack faints it.

...wow.
never thought of that..... O_O

 

[Gyarados Fan]

...wow.
never thought of that..... O_O

It's old xD a game site thought of it way back in 2007.

 

[Klizcool]

Red, as the main protagonist, is the strongest. But, given his situation, (I know that others have said why), he wasn't able to win. In all truths, if you were to gather all of the Dex holders in one tournament, at a good time, Red has a good chance of winning. But being more realistic, there are also the chances that Red could make a minor slip up and lose. Its in the odds, and Red has a great chance of winning. But there is still that "1%" chance of a loss you need to account for. No one's perfect.

 

[lolipiece]

Red, as the main protagonist, is the strongest. But, given his situation, (I know that others have said why), he wasn't able to win. In all truths, if you were to gather all of the Dex holders in one tournament, at a good time, Red has a good chance of winning. But being more realistic, there are also the chances that Red could make a minor slip up and lose. Its in the odds, and Red has a great chance of winning. But there is still that "1%" chance of a loss you need to account for. No one's perfect.

That argument doesn't work because there is no "main protagonist". It switches every chapter based on a game.

 

[e9310103838]

I don't know why,

when discussing the league match of dex holders, Green and Blue always be forgotten. lol ;042;

 

[Genius Mode]

I personally think X would give Red a run for his money. After all, X's past is somewhat similar to Red's in that they're both known specifically for their awesome pokemon battling, and that they both won champion tournaments, one normal, and the other junior. It's hard to dispute between Red and Emerald however because they prefer different battling styles. I can confidently say that Red is the best battler out of gen 1 and 2 though. He was even given a title for it. Another person to consider is Black. His battling ability is most likely at Red's level, and with his Musharna, he could definitely beat Red, but ofc that would never happen because he doesn't see it as ethical.
---Speculation from here on out---
Ruby would probably have been an equal or better to Red, similar to X, if they hadn't given up on their talents and dreams and gotten rusty. Red knew what he wanted to do and kept doing it from the beginning
That's it from me

What about Y?

 

[Gamzee Makara]

I'd argue that the strongest of the Gen 1-3 Dex Holder is Emerald due to him winning the Battle Dome Tournament of the early Dex Holders which Red and all the others lost at some point.

Red, for a best Battler, didn't bother to ever get the Earth Badge from Blue, which is one less quantifiable feat than Sapphire. Speaking of the latter 2, Blue and Sapphire lost to Lysandre and Tucker, two opponents WAYYYYY below their skill level, respectively, Yellow, Gold, Silver, Crystal and Ruby don't have enough quantifiable battle feats. (Wild Pokémon Catches and Glorified Pageants don't qualify as strength or skill IMO)

As for the IV-VI gen, I'd have to say that it's Platinum, due to her conquering the Gyms faster than Sapphire, and winning all of the Fight Area Battle Frontier facilities minus(but implied to be investing in the future challenge of) the Battle Tower.

Diamond, Pearl, and Y never did anything quantifiable, Black has been uploaded to the closest Pokémon equivalent to the internet due to preventable amateur, Youngster-level clumsiness(had he stayed in Detective Time, he'd have avoided Beheyeem)which ruined his character progression, White only did the Battle Subway which she has no certification from and/or proof of winning, Blake's Pokémon all have the same neutral nature which means that they are weak by default, Whitley has only one Pokémon and refuses to get more because she believes in PokéPETA's brainwashing(She needs therapy and Cinnabar Volcano Burgers...like, now), and X had only one Gym Battle with him not even getting a da*n badge for it.

The Verdict's still out on Sun and Moon.

 

[TheViolentTomboy]

Red and Green are the strongest overall because they have no lives outside battling and training. Yellow has the most potential power output thanks to Viridian magic. Ruby has the most natural talent and battle sense, but he's hampered by his issues and the fact that he doesn't train regularly. Emerald's the best at gimmick battles that have extra rules and whatnot.

Eh, and battles and badges aren't the only way to measure worth, and natures don't mean much outside the games. (And Crystal's catching skills aren't...skills? Bruh. And Sapphire lost due to a bad match up, Blue lost to a Legendary) Green and White certainly aren't the strongest, but they are completely self-made, with Green selling her patents and White coming up with a battle facility that boosts the economy to boot. And while Platinum's feats are indeed impressive, it's worth noting that she got a lot of initial help in both training and traveling, while Sapphire did everything herself while taking the long way around.

 

[lolipiece]

I personally think X would give Red a run for his money. After all, X's past is somewhat similar to Red's in that they're both known specifically for their awesome pokemon battling, and that they both won champion tournaments, one normal, and the other junior.

"Champion tournament?" Are you referring to the Pokemon League? Because no, X did not compete in the Pokemon League. He challenged a generic tournament for small children. Those things are too different to compare properly.

If he hadn't given up training for five years, I could see it. But there's still the massive age gap between them.

Red, for a best Battler, didn't bother to ever get the Earth Badge from Blue, which is one less quantifiable feat than Sapphire.

...And? Red still won against Giovanni, the Gym Leader at the time. And not like it matters since getting the Badge wasn't required to beat the League at the time. Titles are not an indicator of strength.

Speaking of the latter 2, Blue and Sapphire lost to Lysandre and Tucker, two opponents WAYYYYY below their skill level, respectively, Yellow, Gold, Silver, Crystal and Ruby don't have enough quantifiable battle feats. (Wild Pokémon Catches and Glorified Pageants don't qualify as strength or skill IMO)

Excuse me? Where is your source for that "skill level" claim? Lysandre was shown to be a very powerful battle since X lost to him without defeating a single one of his Pokemon. And the Frontier Brains are explicitly powerful Trainers. That's why they have the job in the first place.

And I fail to see how catching Pokemon isn't a skill. May I remind you she learned that ability as a small child. When her arms were broken? And Contests aren't skillful either? Contests aren't easy either.

As for the IV-VI gen, I'd have to say that it's Platinum, due to her conquering the Gyms faster than Sapphire, and winning all of the Fight Area Battle Frontier facilities minus(but implied to be investing in the future challenge of) the Battle Tower.

Platinum's journey was completely different from Sapphire's. It's not fair to say someone is better when the things they did were radically different. And second, who cares who was faster? Sapphire wasn't even trying to set a record.

Diamond, Pearl, and Y never did anything quantifiable,

Diamond and Pearl aren't battlers. Why even mention them? And Y is still in school to learn Sky battling.

Black has been uploaded to the closest Pokémon equivalent to the internet due to preventable amateur, Youngster-level clumsiness(had he stayed in Detective Time, he'd have avoided Beheyeem)which ruined his character progression

...Source, please? You clearly do not understand how Detective Time works.

White only did the Battle Subway which she has no certification from and/or proof of winning

That's not really fair considering she was a novice at that point. She at least got good enough to tie with them.

Blake's Pokémon all have the same neutral nature which means that they are weak by default

...??? You're starting to confuse me.

Natures don't mean everything.

Whitley has only one Pokémon and refuses to get more because she believes in PokéPETA's brainwashing

Again, not a battler.

(She needs therapy and Cinnabar Volcano Burgers...like, now)

What?

and X had only one Gym Battle with him not even getting a da*n badge for it.

It wasn't even an official battle.

 

[Lucky3]

Well, if we go by 'the more likely to win in your average pokemon battle' definition of strenght, then I'd say Red, since that's his thing after all. That doesn't mean he's going to win every battle he ever fights so it isn't weird if he lost to Emerald.

Green is his rival and supposedly his equal so he's up there with him. Yellow migh have a powerful ability but she's unlikely to use it in a normal battle so I wouldn't put her with the strongest. Blue is good at coming up with strategies and having backup plans upon backup plans, but not particularly powerful outside of that.

Neither of the Johto trio seems particularly good at battling, although Gold's ability to think outside the box and come up with crazy plans on the fly might come in handy. The Hoenn trio is the opposite, they're all pretty good. I'd say all of them could be a hard match even for Red.

Platinum has a impressive track record, knows a lot and learns fast, so she probably would have a fair shot at Red too. Pearl and Dia have abilities that can be useful in battle, but I doubt they're at that level.

Black is a champion and Lack-two is like a robot that hardly ever loses, so I'd say they're high tier. White and Whi-two come a little short by comparison. X was already very good as a kid and now he has super senses and it's practically imposible to catch him by surprise, so he'd be a tough challenge. Y is good at Sky Battles, but that's way too specific to be relevant. And neither Sun and Moon seems like a particularly strong battler, but it's too soon to tell.