Is reincarnation canon in the Pokemon universe?

[DatsRight]

Because of what Ash said about the perfume at the beginning, and the Girl Scouts at the Gym overheard him, so they probably told Erika not to battle him.

It was kind of implied her assistants were obnoxious fangirls and aggressive to all who opposed Erika by their own accord. From what I remember there was nothing suggesting Erika actually gave the order to ban Ash herself. She only turned a blind eye to them violently throwing him out her store (though you could blame his friends for being as ignorant towards that action, no one really contradicted slapstick assault in Kanto ).

I haven't watched any of the Sun/Moon anime (in fact, I haven't watched the anime since the XYZ series), but from reading about it on Bulbapedia, I think Tapu Fini actually showed Mallow an illusion of her mother with its magical mist. In her place, a rose grew, which turned out to be Shaymin, so it's more than likely that Mallow's Shaymin is her mother reincarnated as a Pokémon. Which makes me wonder if other humans in the Pokémon world can be reincarnated as Pokémon when they die.

(By the way, was it ever specified what Mallow's mother died of? They say she was very ill before she died, but they never really said exactly what illness she had.)

Yeah I don't think they were on-the-nose about what killed her, just she was sick.

From what I remember her spirit also gave a contemplating look just as she had to leave, either knowing she had to go or deciding she had to think up some sort of backup plan, thus became Shaymin.

 

[Leonhart]

It was kind of implied her assistants were obnoxious fangirls and aggressive to all who opposed Erika by their own accord. From what I remember there was nothing suggesting Erika actually gave the order to ban Ash herself. She only turned a blind eye to them violently throwing him out her store (though you could blame his friends for being as ignorant towards that action, no one really contradicted slapstick assault in Kanto ).

I already provided the translation of the Japanese dialogue where one of the Girl Scouts literally said that Erika told them not to let him into the Gym. Unless you're implying that the Girl Scout lied, but that wasn't implied in the Japanese version, nor would I understand why she'd lie in the first place.

As for the theory about Shaymin being the reincarnation of Mao's (Mallow's) mother: I don't remember much about that Shaymin, honestly. Most of SM is a blur to me aside from the Alola League episodes, but I don't like the thought of a person's soul being reborn as a Pokemon in the anime.

 

[Orphalesion]

I can totally see Erika being so pissed at Ash that she just refuses to let him into her gym. From her POV he insulted her personally when he insulted her perfumes. And in the anime there's more than 8 gyms in Kanto, so it's not like he really had to win her badge specifically.
Plus isn't politeness/respect a huge thing in Japan, especially towards people older than yourself? (And Erika was older than Ash) which would explain Misty and Brock not being bothered with Erika's treatment of Ash; as far as they are concerned he deserved what he got.

And also...the Pokemon anime is highly comedic in tone, and form that angle it all works out; Ash being the typical idiot protagonists who gets himself into trouble and then has to go to hilarious lengths to get himself out of trouble again.

Also, if we take the Kanto leaders in the anime seriously, there's worse offenders than Erika, such as Sabrina who turns losers into dolls, or Giovanni in any version, what with being a Yakuza boss and all...

 

[RedJirachi]

Yeah but it is different from 11th film ones and anime version of one from Pokemon game event (Dppt) anime love to add multiply Gods and mystical Pokemon in their own universe.

Only a handful of actual legendaries and mythicals count as deities. Mainly reality warpers like the Creation Trio or those who shaped the world like the Weather Trio. Most are just that; legends and myths made manifest. The "only one of each legendary/mythical" was meant to be a game mechanic, and in most cases it doesn't literally mean "there's only one of these in the world/universe/multiverse", though some should be unique/a set amount implicitly or explicitly...but that's an entirely different subject matter

Going exclusively by the games, the closest to reincarnation as it's traditionally understood is probably the Pokemon who died in the Burned Tower being reborn as the legendary beasts. Though when you think about, reincarnation is just a more specific form of resurrection. Ghosts, the afterlife and basically "any existence beyond death" could count under the broad term of resurrection. Game-wise it's not clear if fossils are a true revival or a cloning process. I really hope it's not the former with the Galarian fossils

 

[Orphalesion]

Going exclusively by the games, the closest to reincarnation as it's traditionally understood is probably the Pokemon who died in the Burned Tower being reborn as the legendary beasts. Though when you think about, reincarnation is just a more specific form of resurrection. Ghosts, the afterlife and basically "any existence beyond death" could count under the broad term of resurrection.

From a theological/mythological standpoint resurrection is the return of a dead being to physical life in a body, it's literally what it means "to rise again".
So no ghosts and many forms of the afterlife do not fall under "resurrection". In fact some variations of Christianity, for example, say that you cease to exist when you die and you will basically be recreated/resurrected/brought back to life by the biblical god at the end of time on Judgment Day.

Though I agree that reincarnation could be seen as a specific variant of resurrection.

 

[DatsRight]

I already provided the translation of the Japanese dialogue where one of the Girl Scouts literally said that Erika told them not to let him into the Gym. Unless you're implying that the Girl Scout lied, but that wasn't implied in the Japanese version, nor would I understand why she'd lie in the first place.

Oh, they did? Sorry I didn't see that comment.

 

[DatsRight]

I can totally see Erika being so pissed at Ash that she just refuses to let him into her gym. From her POV he insulted her personally when he insulted her perfumes. And in the anime there's more than 8 gyms in Kanto, so it's not like he really had to win her badge specifically.
Plus isn't politeness/respect a huge thing in Japan, especially towards people older than yourself? (And Erika was older than Ash) which would explain Misty and Brock not being bothered with Erika's treatment of Ash; as far as they are concerned he deserved what he got.

And also...the Pokemon anime is highly comedic in tone, and form that angle it all works out; Ash being the typical idiot protagonists who gets himself into trouble and then has to go to hilarious lengths to get himself out of trouble again.

Also, if we take the Kanto leaders in the anime seriously, there's worse offenders than Erika, such as Sabrina who turns losers into dolls, or Giovanni in any version, what with being a Yakuza boss and all...

But EVERYONE in Kanto was freaking rude. Half the time Ash himself flipped out was because no one could explain things to him without an excess of snide disapproval and pompous insults. Everyone relished taking someone else down a peg.

I feel like Shudo wanted to make the anime REALLY cynical at first. The hyper defensive superiority complex of a lot of figures would have made more sense in the original plans where the Pokemon trainer occupation was meant to be far more pressuring and crappy, basically you had to be a good Pokemon trainer or you were deemed a "failure". Gym leaders apparently got fired if officials caught them losing too often and tons of wannabe trainers would spend their lives trying to make it work only to find they had barely anything to their name. Their were signs of this concept at times, particularly with Team Rocket's backstories and Misty's heavily implied projecting on Ash, but the anime itself tended to tone the lore down a lot of the time, making everyone look just super petty and dismissive for no reason. This is a likely reason later seasons made things more idealistic since without the substance, it went from a more cynical take to just gratuitously mean spirited.

It would make sense if Erika was a by product of this, that the gym leader job was meant to be such a crapsack originally that she takes heavy solace in her other line of work so gets super aggressive when someone criticises it. It....isn't at all in the show so Erika just kinda looks like a well off entrepreneur that's bullying a kid (and to the point of trying to end his dream goal) over one matter-of-fact rude remark.

 

[NovaBrunswick]

But EVERYONE in Kanto was freaking rude. Half the time Ash himself flipped out was because no one could explain things to him without an excess of snide disapproval and pompous insults. Everyone relished taking someone else down a peg.

Even his own friends. There's one scene at the beginning of EP011 ("The School of Hard Knocks") where Misty beats up Ash because of something he said, and he sports visible injuries. If I remember correctly, in the very first episode ("Pokémon, I Choose You!"), when Misty was fishing and she ended up reeling Ash in, she angrily slapped him across the face for ruining her fishing trip. I think both these scenes were cut out from the dub though, since people don't often approve of violence in kids' TV shows.

From what I remember her spirit also gave a contemplating look just as she had to leave, either knowing she had to go or deciding she had to think up some sort of backup plan, thus became Shaymin.

I think she probably felt sad about her daughter being so angry with her just before she died, and she never got to make amends with her while she was still alive.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

I think both these scenes were cut out from the dub though, since people don't often approve of violence in kids' TV shows.

Not just this, but keeping the scenes would compromise the shipping narrative they wanted to be a thing so much despite having no basis no reality

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

But EVERYONE in Kanto was freaking rude.

I wouldn’t say everyone. Besides Delia and Prof. Oak who were obligated to be really nice, you had most of the Officer Jennys and Nurse Joys being polite and kind, and Bill was really polite to the point he showed the gang his work and I think offered them tea. Blaine And Koga were neutral as Koga was a ninja whose training made him suppress strong emotions so they wouldn’t interfere with any missions assigned to him and Blaine was just unhappy that Cinnabar Island became more of a vacation resort with hardly anyone wanting to battle him so it’s understandable why he seemed so moody. Plus Blaine did set up the gang with rooms in his inn. He really wasn’t rude to Ash and told him the truth about Charizard in that he needed to get it to listen to him and he shouldn’t be sending it out in battles if it isn’t going to obey commands.

 

[Orphalesion]

Personally I just always saw it as Ash being kind of a dumbass who gets beaten down for his dumbass actions/statements for comedic effect. Typical older comedy anime.
Just compare it with Ramna 1/2, for example, where the main character is similarly irreverent/rude/impulsive and gets similar amounts of punishment for it.
And especially with Erika I think that due to her position and being a Yamato Nadeshiko she's not used to people being rude or even slightly impolite to her, hence why she reacted so negatively to Ash.

 

[TwilightBlade]

About the Mallow and Shaymin thing I don't actually watch the show anymore but from I read Mallow released the Shaymin at the end of the Alola series right? So if it was reincarnated from her deceased mother's soul why did she have to go away again?

 

[NovaBrunswick]

About the Mallow and Shaymin thing I don't actually watch the show anymore but from I read Mallow released the Shaymin at the end of the Alola series right? So if it was reincarnated from her deceased mother's soul why did she have to go away again?

Maybe she had to return to the afterlife. Also, wasn't Acerola's Mimikyu a reincarnation of a previously deceased Mimikyu? (Which seems to confirm that even Ghost-type Pokémon can die and be reborn.)

The hyper defensive superiority complex of a lot of figures would have made more sense in the original plans where the Pokemon trainer occupation was meant to be far more pressuring and crappy, basically you had to be a good Pokemon trainer or you were deemed a "failure". Gym leaders apparently got fired if officials caught them losing too often and tons of wannabe trainers would spend their lives trying to make it work only to find they had barely anything to their name.

Wasn't there a Chronicles episode about Misty returning to the Cerulean Gym and it being threatened with closure by the Gym authorities because she was gone for too long? It probably only seems to be a thing in Kanto, as other regions don't have said authorities of any kind.

And especially with Erika I think that due to her position and being a Yamato Nadeshiko she's not used to people being rude or even slightly impolite to her, hence why she reacted so negatively to Ash.

Also, as you said before, politeness and respect are a big deal in Japan.

 

[DatsRight]

About the Mallow and Shaymin thing I don't actually watch the show anymore but from I read Mallow released the Shaymin at the end of the Alola series right? So if it was reincarnated from her deceased mother's soul why did she have to go away again?

I think it was meant to display symbolism, that Mallow's family were reunited again and by letting Shaymin fly off into the sky she was finally accepting the loss of her mother.

In-universe, I guess it's that reincarnation doesn't neccessarily mean the exact same memories and instincts. Shaymin was still a Pokemon with its own personality different from Mallow's mother.