Is Serena overrated?

[Genaller]

Yeah let’s get some facts straight.

Ash has been far more personal with other girls than with Serena. Hell, he has trained closely together with all of them in battles, which is something destiny likes to put a stop whenever Serena is involved. And outside those battles, he has interacted more personally with other girls as well.

The battle point doesn’t really say much since all the other pokegirls had battle oriented goals whereas Serena’s goal during XY is explicitly non-battle oriented. Care to give any actual evidence on the bolded statement. For starters Serena is the only pokegirl Ash personally invited to join the group (a.k.a Serena had the highest initial value amongst any pokegirl for Ash). In addition off the top of my head I can think of examples that strongly support Ash valuing Serena over both May and Dawn (I’ll get into specifics after you give me the evidence I requested). Iris isn’t even worth mentioning as evidenced by how lackluster her parting with Ash was.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say Misty is his true girlfriend.

Except... Ash explicitly friend zoned her at the end of OS, Misty accepted how Ash felt about her, and they have not had a single interaction since that would suggest they have any romantic feelings towards each other.

But because it's been directly stated Serena is a love interest for Ash by the writers, diehard Serena fans make damn sure the message is spread out. (Well, at least I haven't seen other shippers as prominent as Serena's in this forum.)

Yeah that and the director of XY explicitly confirmed that the interpretation of Ash and Serena’s final interaction is meant to be that they’ll become a couple at some point in the future (whether we see it or not). Of course Serena's shippers would be more prominent since there’s objectively far more evidence in support of it than any other Ash x Pokegirl ship. So... people are not allowed to express their opinion? It’s fine if you don’t support the ship, but that doesn’t give you the right to say how much people should and shouldn’t express their views on a given topic; you can just choose to ignore them if you think it’s getting too much.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

The battle point doesn’t really say much since all the other pokegirls had battle oriented goals whereas Serena’s goal during XY is explicitly non-battle oriented. Care to give any actual evidence on the bolded statement. For starters Serena is the only pokegirl Ash personally invited to join the group (a.k.a Serena had the highest initial value amongst any pokegirl for Ash). In addition off the top of my head I can think of examples that strongly support Ash valuing Serena over both May and Dawn (I’ll get into specifics after you give me the evidence I requested). Iris isn’t even worth mentioning as evidenced by how lackluster her parting with Ash was.

I mainly used the battle part simply because this is this show's way of saying how much friendship there is going around. It's always a battle that decides and shows how deep many of the relationships are.

Except... Ash explicitly friend zoned her at the end of OS, Misty accepted how Ash felt about her, and they have not had a single interaction since that would suggest they have any romantic feelings towards each other.

Did they now.

It’s fine if you don’t support the ship, but that doesn’t give you the right to say how much people should and shouldn’t express their views on a given topic; you can just choose to ignore them if you think it’s getting too much.

And now you're making stuff up. I'm not telling people how much they can say their views.

 

[Genaller]

I mainly used the battle part simply because this is this show's way of saying how much friendship there is going around. It's always a battle that decides and shows how deep many of the relationships are.

Pretty bold claim there. Battles are the primary metric through which bonds are displayed; however, this show has stated that there are other ways to express bonds (matter of fact Showcases were defined from the onset as a means for expressing the bond between trainer and Pokémon through ways other than battle). Amusingly enough you still haven’t given any evidence for the statement of yours concerning the other girls having more personal interactions with Ash in non-battle scenarios.

Did they now.

Yeah; they did ^_^.

And now you're making stuff up. I'm not telling people how much they can say their views.

Am I now. Let’s see: “diehard Serena fans make damn sure the message is spread out.” If you were merely pointing out an observation then there would’ve been no need to use a word like “damn” especially in bold. The fact that you did means that you assign some negative connotation to “diehard fans” (of Serena) expressing their opinion throughout the community on the matter and would rather they not do so. If this is a misinterpretation on my part, then please enlighten me on what you were actually trying to achieve with this comment.

 

[UltimateNinja]

She's as overrated as Lillie currently is.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

She's as overrated as Lillie currently is.

Is Lillie overrated...? I've only heard complaints regarding Lillie after the Lusamine arc.

 

[NPT]

This thread is overrated. Why is it STILL open?

 

[AznKei]

Is Lillie overrated...? I've only heard complaints regarding Lillie after the Lusamine arc.

I remembered the latest detective Rotomdex episode where Lillie was talking about having friends while she was alone with Ash, some people thought about shipping hints between them, especially when she blushed.

 

[keepitsimple]

She's not overrated but she's ruining my face-off atm

 

[satopi]

Serena is overrated but not as overrated as Amoursh-... uh... Ash's powerhouse strength.

(I voted no, she's not overrated.)

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

She's not overrated.

But rather too polarizing.

 

[PorcelainVulpix]

@ the argument above, Ash has only ever showed jealousy when another man had Misty’s attention, only ever shown attraction to Giselle and maybe Misty during Ghost of Maiden’s Peak, and also I’d like to add that I felt Ash acted pretty personally with Dawn, May and Misty more than he ever did with Serena but I’m just going to stop here because arguing with die hard amour shippers is like talking to a brick wall. The director who was in charge of XY is not the lead director anymore. I remember some years back there was a director who said in an interview that the poke girls are just “eye candy for Ash,” which caused a lot of controversy and he isn’t even on staff anymore. Also, it’s been hinted at in multiple magazines that Misty is a love interest for Ash, there was even a whole play about it even though the writers did not write the play, the man who did write the play stated in an interview that he had to get everything approved by the Poke team in Japan first. Also, before Ash went to Alola, the cast of of the Pokenchi staff showed support of Ash and Misty by suggesting that Ash was going to Alola to finally chase after Misty. Are Ash and Misty together? No. So take anything a staff member says with a grain of salt.

Like I said said before, Serena is really NOT a bad character but some of these die hard amourshippers make it hard for her. Smh

 

[ash&charizardfan]

@ the argument above, Ash has only ever showed jealousy when another man had Misty’s attention, only ever shown attraction to Giselle and maybe Misty during Ghost of Maiden’s Peak, and also I’d like to add that I felt Ash acted pretty personally with Dawn, May and Misty more than he ever did with Serena but I’m just going to stop here because arguing with die hard amour shippers is like talking to a brick wall. The director who was in charge of XY is not the lead director anymore. I remember some years back there was a director who said in an interview that the poke girls are just “eye candy for Ash,” which caused a lot of controversy and he isn’t even on staff anymore. Also, it’s been hinted at in multiple magazines that Misty is a love interest for Ash, there was even a whole play about it even though the writers did not write the play, the man who did write the play stated in an interview that he had to get everything approved by the Poke team in Japan first. Also, before Ash went to Alola, the cast of of the Pokenchi staff showed support of Ash and Misty by suggesting that Ash was going to Alola to finally chase after Misty. Are Ash and Misty together? No. So take anything a staff member says with a grain of salt.

Well one thing to clear up, ash never showed jealously towards any man, he was annoyed towards both mandy and that gym leader because they were both avoiding his request for gym challenge which was intuned with the personality ash showed in OS, i wouldn't call jealously there. As for his interaction his XY series self was more mature and somewhat bland so therefore he wasn't that much personal interaction with her but she is still the only companion who was invited to join his journey. You are talking about the director, but the idea of shipping was brought in by the producer who is in this anime by the time of OS (the time misty was in) and not by the director, also no other ship in pokemon is promoted by the anime as much as amour is, besides shudo straight away rejected the notion that misty was a love interest and said that they were just best of friends. Even in misty's charac description it is never mentioned about her love interest stuff. I would not believe about the poke writer stuff there are many rumours about pokeshipping which has been proven wrong like that litttle girl in the trailer of first movie being poke child or baby breadth flower in XYZ 47 reminding of misty, all these thoeries have been proven wrong, misty was never promoted to be ash's love interest by the anime except for some instances in OI. No ship is canon but you cannot blame amourshippers to be gang ho simply because there ship is possibly has the most chance to be canon of any ash ships. Besides whatever stuff the director says is generally after consulting the whole crew.

 

[PorcelainVulpix]

Well one thing to clear up, ash never showed jealously towards any man, he was annoyed towards both mandy and that gym leader because they were both avoiding his request for gym challenge which was intuned with the personality ash showed in OS, i wouldn't call jealously there. As for his interaction his XY series self was more mature and somewhat bland so therefore he wasn't that much personal interaction with her but she is still the only companion who was invited to join his journey. You are talking about the director, but the idea of shipping was brought in by the producer who is in this anime by the time of OS (the time misty was in) and not by the director, also no other ship in pokemon is promoted by the anime as much as amour is, besides shudo straight away rejected the notion that misty was a love interest and said that they were just best of friends. Even in misty's charac description it is never mentioned about her love interest stuff. I would not believe about the poke writer stuff there are many rumours about pokeshipping which has been proven wrong like that litttle girl in the trailer of first movie being poke child or baby breadth flower in XYZ 47 reminding of misty, all these thoeries have been proven wrong, misty was never promoted to be ash's love interest by the anime except for some instances in OI. No ship is canon but you cannot blame amourshippers to be gang ho simply because there ship is possibly has the most chance to be canon of any ash ships. Besides whatever stuff the director says is generally after consulting the whole crew.

Actually, you’re wrong. Ash’s jealousy towards Danny was most definiely because of Misty because 1) he didn’t even know Danny was the gym leader at the time and 2) how was he avoiding an challange with Ash? They were both climing a mountain and Ash got angry and almost fell of the mountain all because he heard Misty calling for Danny and not him. 3) Then when Misty greeted Danny after they finished climbing the mountain, he was obviously miffed that Misty cared so much for Danny’s safety and not his. Also in Princess vs Princess Ash showed jealousy because he thought Misty wanted to enter the competition just to impress Fiorella. That didn’t involve a gym leader or anything about Ash period.

There’s been multiple magazines that acknowledge Misty’s crush on Ash and even had Tracey and Jessie and James acknowledge their “feelings” for each other. Even the pokenchi staff did not too long ago. Even some VA’s.

Either way, I’m done arguing and derailing the thread. Youre right that I can’t blame Amourshippers for supporting their ship, which is completely understandable, it’s just Amourshippers are constantly putting Serena on a throne and trying to diminish any other Ash and main girl shipping just like you and another user have done in this thread. I don’t think I’ve ever tried to say deny anything about Amourshipping yet here people are trying to make it seem like I’m wrong for support a different Ash and main girl ship. It’s okay to support your ship without trying to challenge other ship!!

 

[satopi]

Misty has Tracey now... but I'd rather have Ash get Misty May, Dawn, Iris, Ritchie over Serena for obvious reasons. Ash went to Alola to reunite with Anabel. (Honestly, Pokeshipping was supposed to happen until they decided to make them just friends... the only ship that is canon is Pikashipping, which is the best ship!) I do agree that Amourshipping killed the shipping wars of the past, now it's just boring.

And I may be playing devil's advocate here but there's more to Serena that appeals to Amourshippers. I see more "Serena is relatable to me because she doesn't know what to do with her life/she gives up too easily and quits when it gets rough/she follows her heart.... etc" than "OMG true amour!! Ash & Serena's so cute, Serena trumps all!" Most of them just want Serena to be happy and yeah, her being an official love interest did increase her popularity but in essence, Serena's a very relatable character and showcased the largest amount of inner strength that doesn't need a battle or ribbon to show she developed. Kind of like Lillie with her phobia. People like characters they can insert themselves and relate to on a personal level rather than Serena being an unstoppable force to be dealt with.

 

[Jeal]

Actually, you’re wrong. Ash’s jealousy towards Danny was most definiely because of Misty because 1) he didn’t even know Danny was the gym leader at the time and 2) how was he avoiding an challange with Ash? They were both climing a mountain and Ash got angry and almost fell of the mountain all because he heard Misty calling for Danny and not him. 3) Then when Misty greeted Danny after they finished climbing the mountain, he was obviously miffed that Misty cared so much for Danny’s safety and not his. Also in Princess vs Princess Ash showed jealousy because he thought Misty wanted to enter the competition just to impress Fiorella. That didn’t involve a gym leader or anything about Ash period.

There’s been multiple magazines that acknowledge Misty’s crush on Ash and even had Tracey and Jessie and James acknowledge their “feelings” for each other. Even the pokenchi staff did not too long ago. Even some VA’s.

Either way, I’m done arguing and derailing the thread. Youre right that I can’t blame Amourshippers for supporting their ship, which is completely understandable, it’s just Amourshippers are constantly putting Serena on a throne and trying to diminish any other Ash and main girl shipping just like you and another user have done in this thread. I don’t think I’ve ever tried to say deny anything about Amourshipping yet here people are trying to make it seem like I’m wrong for support a different Ash and main girl ship. It’s okay to support your ship without trying to challenge other ship!!

No one of us tried to diminish Ash's other shippings , it was AuraChanellerChris who started the discussion saying ''other girls have received way more attention from Ash than Serena has'' which isn't really true. I have no problems with another shippings(Just AshxIris, please no).

 

[satopi]

No one of us tried to diminish Ash's other shippings , it was AuraChanellerChris who started the discussion saying ''other girls have received way more attention from Ash than Serena has'' which isn't really true.

I think he meant more as in Ash's interactions with the previous Pokegirls were more engaging, had more substance in his view. Maybe he was trying to say Ash and Serena's interactions were boring and too shoujo like (I mean we did have Serena vision, Serena leaving home to find her love to give him something back, Serena pondering if she was on a date with Ash or not in one episode, lovers met as kids and one of them saved the other, reunited when they got older trope, overly dramatic yet cute lovers' quarrel, shock value kiss at the end, most likely more that I can't think up on the top of my head.)

I have no problems with another shippings(Just AshxIris, please no).

HEY!

 

[ash&charizardfan]

Actually, you’re wrong. Ash’s jealousy towards Danny was most definiely because of Misty because 1) he didn’t even know Danny was the gym leader at the time and 2) how was he avoiding an challange with Ash? They were both climing a mountain and Ash got angry and almost fell of the mountain all because he heard Misty calling for Danny and not him. 3) Then when Misty greeted Danny after they finished climbing the mountain, he was obviously miffed that Misty cared so much for Danny’s safety and not his. Also in Princess vs Princess Ash showed jealousy because he thought Misty wanted to enter the competition just to impress Fiorella. That didn’t involve a gym leader or anything about Ash period.

There’s been multiple magazines that acknowledge Misty’s crush on Ash and even had Tracey and Jessie and James acknowledge their “feelings” for each other. Even the pokenchi staff did not too long ago. Even some VA’s.

Either way, I’m done arguing and derailing the thread. Youre right that I can’t blame Amourshippers for supporting their ship, which is completely understandable, it’s just Amourshippers are constantly putting Serena on a throne and trying to diminish any other Ash and main girl shipping just like you and another user have done in this thread. I don’t think I’ve ever tried to say deny anything about Amourshipping yet here people are trying to make it seem like I’m wrong for support a different Ash and main girl ship. It’s okay to support your ship without trying to challenge other ship!!

Wrong again,1) he first thought danny was a challenger and not gym leader, he tought of him as a competitor who was trying to beat him by challenging the gym leader before him. 2) He may not be avoiding ash's challenge, but misty was mocking ash's personality while praising danny all the time which hurt ash's ego which made him angry at danny. 3) Again the challenge of mountain climbing was tough so ash thought he would get his friends sympathy and praise for clearing a tough challenge and when misty greeted danny instead of ash that hurt ash's ego again, which was synonymous with OS ash's personality, he had this attitude of 'it's all about me and me alone'. I don't see any jealously on ash's part here more like his bratty nature. As for princess vs princess episode, there wasn't any jealously on ash's part, besides kanto saga hardly had shipping moments most were present in OI.

Neither TR nor tracey has acknowledged anything, TR had mocked them, just like TR along with COTD mocked ash and may of being a couple in AG, while lyra tried to match ash and dawn while lana's sisters asked lana if ash is his boyfriend, doe that mean may, dawn and lana have crush on ash. None of the magazine has ever confirmed misty's crush at best all had hinted that, on the other hand OS head writer gave a negative answer on misty's crush. Those two had hardly interacted during her cameo in AG and SM, and i bet there wont be any moments in this cameo as well. There were one or two ads featuring ash and dawn as well.

Is it wrong to put serena on throne and diminish other shippings with the amount of promotion that shipping is getting, just 2 months back anime website had put some top moments of amour in there official site. With this amount of promotion, amour has most chances of being canon than other ships, of course people can ship other pairings as well, i still ship pearl since it is quite a cute ship. But its no secret that amout has killed other ships.

And I may be playing devil's advocate here but there's more to Serena that appeals to Amourshippers. I see more "Serena is relatable to me because she doesn't know what to do with her life/she gives up too easily and quits when it gets rough/she follows her heart.... etc" than "OMG true amour!! Ash & Serena's so cute, Serena trumps all!" Most of them just want Serena to be happy and yeah, her being an official love interest did increase her popularity but in essence, Serena's a very relatable character and showcased the largest amount of inner strength that doesn't need a battle or ribbon to show she developed. Kind of like Lillie with her phobia. People like characters they can insert themselves and relate to on a personal level rather than Serena being an unstoppable force to be dealt with.

I won't mind anabel coming back, her and ash are my 3rd favourite ships after amour and pearl. I would love to see her.

You have to see the twittr and FB to get the idea most of comments of particular one section just says that serena is all about shipping and nothing else, even though she grew more of a character than misty did in about half of episodes. I think shipping with ash did overwhelm her character, serena is comparable to hinata from naruto series, who often get overwhlemed as a character due to her shipping with naruto.

I think he meant mor
e as in Ash's interactions with the previous Pokegirls were more engaging, had more substance in his view. Maybe he was trying to say Ash and Serena's interactions were boring and too shoujo like (I mean we did have Serena vision, Serena leaving home to find her love to give him something back, Serena pondering if she was on a date with Ash or not in one episode, lovers met as kids and one of them saved the other, reunited when they got older trope, overly dramatic yet cute lovers' quarrel, shock value kiss at the end, most likely more that I can't think up on the top of my head.)


HEY!

That has to do with XY series more influenced with shonen series than previous pokemon series while ash was acting like shonen hero and matured one. Even the shipping hints were mostly influenced by moments that happen in shonen series.

Poor iris, the only underrated companion of all gets too much hate.

 

[Jeal]

I think he meant more as in Ash's interactions with the previous Pokegirls were more engaging, had more substance in his view. Maybe he was trying to say Ash and Serena's interactions were boring and too shoujo like (I mean we did have Serena vision, Serena leaving home to find her love to give him something back, Serena pondering if she was on a date with Ash or not in one episode, lovers met as kids and one of them saved the other, reunited when they got older trope, overly dramatic yet cute lovers' quarrel, shock value kiss at the end, most likely more that I can't think up on the top of my head.)


HEY!

Well, yeah, I can understand that.But I liked their interactions. Ash was like a role model for her, and she was always there to support him. The best examples are the conversations in XY007 and XY040. Their moments alone were more than ''hey, don't worry! Everything will be fine! You will make great in your gym battle, contest!'', do you get it? Something deeper than that. It can be monotonous for some, though.

 

[Power Up]

@ the argument above, Ash has only ever showed jealousy when another man had Misty’s attention, only ever shown attraction to Giselle and maybe Misty during Ghost of Maiden’s Peak, and also I’d like to add that I felt Ash acted pretty personally with Dawn, May and Misty more than he ever did with Serena but I’m just going to stop here because arguing with die hard amour shippers is like talking to a brick wall. The director who was in charge of XY is not the lead director anymore. I remember some years back there was a director who said in an interview that the poke girls are just “eye candy for Ash,” which caused a lot of controversy and he isn’t even on staff anymore. Also, it’s been hinted at in multiple magazines that Misty is a love interest for Ash, there was even a whole play about it even though the writers did not write the play, the man who did write the play stated in an interview that he had to get everything approved by the Poke team in Japan first. Also, before Ash went to Alola, the cast of of the Pokenchi staff showed support of Ash and Misty by suggesting that Ash was going to Alola to finally chase after Misty. Are Ash and Misty together? No. So take anything a staff member says with a grain of salt.

Like I said said before, Serena is really NOT a bad character but some of these die hard amourshippers make it hard for her. Smh

Man, it must suck to base a character off a couple of idiotic shippers. You had people threatening to commit suicide if Pokeshipping wasn't made canon back in the day, does that make Misty a bad character?

Why people are using shippers to justify criticism towards Serena is beyond me. There's no reason for shippers to influence your viewpoint.

 

[PorcelainVulpix]

Wrong again,1) he first thought danny was a challenger and not gym leader, he tought of him as a competitor who was trying to beat him by challenging the gym leader before him. 2) He may not be avoiding ash's challenge, but misty was mocking ash's personality while praising danny all the time which hurt ash's ego which made him angry at danny. 3) Again the challenge of mountain climbing was tough so ash thought he would get his friends sympathy and praise for clearing a tough challenge and when misty greeted danny instead of ash that hurt ash's ego again, which was synonymous with OS ash's personality, he had this attitude of 'it's all about me and me alone'. I don't see any jealously on ash's part here more like his bratty nature. As for princess vs princess episode, there wasn't any jealously on ash's part, besides kanto saga hardly had shipping moments most were present in OI.

Neither TR nor tracey has acknowledged anything, TR had mocked them, just like TR along with COTD mocked ash and may of being a couple in AG, while lyra tried to match ash and dawn while lana's sisters asked lana if ash is his boyfriend, doe that mean may, dawn and lana have crush on ash. None of the magazine has ever confirmed misty's crush at best all had hinted that, on the other hand OS head writer gave a negative answer on misty's crush. Those two had hardly interacted during her cameo in AG and SM, and i bet there wont be any moments in this cameo as well. There were one or two ads featuring ash and dawn as well.

Is it wrong to put serena on throne and diminish other shippings with the amount of promotion that shipping is getting, just 2 months back anime website had put some top moments of amour in there official site. With this amount of promotion, amour has most chances of being canon than other ships, of course people can ship other pairings as well, i still ship pearl since it is quite a cute ship. But its no secret that amout has killed other ships.



I won't mind anabel coming back, her and ash are my 3rd favourite ships after amour and pearl. I would love to see her.

You have to see the twittr and FB to get the idea most of comments of particular one section just says that serena is all about shipping and nothing else, even though she grew more of a character than misty did in about half of episodes. I think shipping with ash did overwhelm her character, serena is comparable to hinata from naruto series, who often get overwhlemed as a character due to her shipping with naruto.



That has to do with XY series more influenced with shonen series than previous pokemon series while ash was acting like shonen hero and matured one. Even the shipping hints were mostly influenced by moments that happen in shonen series.

Poor iris, the only underrated companion of all gets too much hate.

I can tell you didnt even watch the episode. The scene I’m talking about Misty, wasnt even criticizing Ash in. I stopped reading your post because you seem like the same deragned type of shippers I was talking about. Just pure ignorance smh, your wrong opinion will never stop people from supporting a ship. I’m so glad I’m not that insecure about the shippings I support to where I have to go about bashign any other ship. Oh, btw, Tracey definitely implied Ash and Misty have feelings for each other in both the dub and original japanese episode before you claim it was at the hands of 4kids.

Man, it must suck to base a character off a couple of idiotic shippers. You had people threatening to commit suicide if Pokeshipping wasn't made canon back in the day, does that make Misty a bad character?

Why people are using shippers to justify criticism towards Serena is beyond me. There's no reason for shippers to influence your viewpoint.

I’m not doing what you said though? lololol
I literally said multiple times Serena is NOT a bad character. Although I do mostly see amourshippers embarrassing her with deranged behavior whether yall own up to it or not. I’m not saying there isnt insane shippers in other shipping fandoms because there most definitely is but right now deranged Anourshippers stick out the most, probably because it’s the most recent Ash and main girl ship but still there’s no denying that there’s quite a large amount of crazy Amourshippers who push their opinions down other people’s throats and discredit other ships. And it’s frustrating for people to accuse non amourshippers of not being big fans of serena because of the ship alone when most of the time, thats noo even the case. I actually have no problem with the actual ship or character but no matter how many times I state that, I’m sure it will be skipped over.