Is the anime retconning Contests?

[Kazuniya]

There is legitimately nothing implying at all that the writers are against the girls battling, or girls battling in general. The fact that the majority of Ash’s PWC opponents have been female just makes that idea nonsensical lmao.

Can you explain why Ash has never had a primary female rival in the last 20+ years?

It's pretty obvious that the writers are pushing Ash's female companions into cutesy idol roles or passive roles where battles are a huge no-no and all that matters is looking cute. Like, it's super blatant. Serena being written into non-battle Contests is peak display of that behavior. I wouldn't be shocked if Chloe followed the same route too.

There's nothing wrong with a character wanting to do performances, of course, but there's an obvious pattern here that you're choosing to ignore, and it's very problematic. Here's hoping the next gen anime can actually rectify this.

 

[nuzamaki90]

Can you explain why Ash has never had a primary female rival in the last 20+ years?

It's pretty obvious that the writers are pushing Ash's female companions into cutesy idol roles where battles are a huge no-no and all that matters is looking cute. Like, it's super blatant. Serena being written into non-battle Contests is peak display of that behavior. I wouldn't be shocked if Chloe followed the same route too.

Because we didn’t get a real female rival until Gen 5 and then again in Gen 8. And even still in Best Wishes he had Bianca as one of his many rivals. Casey was there too at a smaller extent.

Bea was Ash’s “primary” female rival in Journeys, and before there was Alain and Shota, Korrina was Ash’s main rival. As was already stated, the female representation in the PWC for Ash has been dominating. The notion really is ridiculous.

And it’s not obvious at all lol. Where was this sentiment when Sun and Moon was airing? Serena was ALREADY doing “non-battle” Contests in XY, they were just called Showcases. Koharu trying out Contests is no different from her trying out literally every other activity she’s done so far in this series, and I guarantee you her next episode will be about her trying out something else. There really is no pattern at all, but if you can point it out I’ll concede.

 

[Ragnarok4]

The worst thing here is that the TryPokaron is better than the Contest Spectaculars, Since it at least requires the perfomer to "coordinate" with the Pokémon

 

[Dragonsoldier77]

The worst thing here is that the TryPokaron is better than the Contest Spectaculars, Since it at least requires the perfomer to "coordinate" with the Pokémon

Let’s be honest, they wouldn’t be able to animate that anymore anyways, trying to animate the trainer dancing along and also the pokemon would probably too much for the current animation.

Aside from being closer to the game, i feel like they did contest live because it’s also easier both to save time and in terms of animation.

 

[Sham]

It’s not even just that. There was literally a boy in the Contest Spectacular participating with his Breloom lmao.

This is wrong too. Both Serena’s battle with Shauna and her tag battle with Ash against Millefeui and James “finished”.


And this is just moving the goalpost. All the main girls have battled, point, blank, period. Some more than others. It doesn’t perpetuate any sort of stigma the writers have against the girls battling. If you want to get into goals, Mallow wants to make a restaurant that can be enjoyed by people and Pokémon which has nothing to do with battles. Kiawe wants to become a Kahuna like his grandpa, which means he has to be a strong trainer. I could go on but I’m sure you get the point. Also, Lana battled a lot, she was the most active trainer out of all the Alola girls. Lana and Popplio had spent the whole night training before it evolved into Brionne, Icy Wind and Sparkling Aria was learnt when the whole group were training before the League.

There is legitimately nothing implying at all that the writers are against the girls battling, or girls battling in general. The fact that the majority of Ash’s PWC opponents have been female just makes that idea nonsensical lmao.

I’m not addressing most of this is because I explained it already. If you think you have some great take on this despite me discussing all of this then great.

 

[Gingertail24]

Because we didn’t get a real female rival until Gen 5 and then again in Gen 8. And even still in Best Wishes he had Bianca as one of his many rivals. Casey was there too at a smaller extent.

Bea was Ash’s “primary” female rival in Journeys, and before there was Alain and Shota, Korrina was Ash’s main rival. As was already stated, the female representation in the PWC for Ash has been dominating. The notion really is ridiculous.

And it’s not obvious at all lol. Where was this sentiment when Sun and Moon was airing? Serena was ALREADY doing “non-battle” Contests in XY, they were just called Showcases. Koharu trying out Contests is no different from her trying out literally every other activity she’s done so far in this series, and I guarantee you her next episode will be about her trying out something else. There really is no pattern at all, but if you can point it out I’ll concede.

Bianca I would hardly call a good rival. No one is saying that female characters never battle at all. We're saying when it comes to female representation in the battling aspect, it's lacking compared to the males. As I said, yes ash had female rivals, but it's interesting how his most notable and popular ones are all male ,Sawyer, Alain,Paul,Gary, kiawe. Does anyone actually care about Bianca?

And yeah there is female in the pwc, but we're mainly focusing on MAIN character. Not one off characters ash battles once and we never see again. Like Marnie and drasna. I hardly call them rivals.

There is clearly a lack of battles and battling goals for female main characters after BW. Do I think the writers are sexist or doing it intentionally? No and idk. But there is clearly a pattern.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

I do feel they are being phased out, nearly retconned, just so the anime's take on them are the same as the games. At some point, it feels like the staff was put on a position where they have do adjustments so stuff shown in the anime is very close/faithful to the games, regardless of wether they were allowed to change them around in the past or not.

 

[ImBeVillain]

If Chloe will join to Pokemon Contest, it's will likely same situation as Ash in PWC....
*More offscreen rankings*

Imagine Pokemon Contest with Chloe would be used only at 3-4 episodes...

 

[Kazuniya]

There is clearly a lack of battles and battling goals for female main characters after BW. Do I think the writers are sexist or doing it intentionally? No and idk. But there is clearly a pattern.

Exactly.

Also referring to Bianca as 'Ash's major/serious rival' is really pushing it lmfao. Especially when Bianca was treated as comedy relief more than anything, and Trip was Ash's main rival in BW. Call me when Ash gets a serious, non-comedy relief female rival.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Okay I can definitely agree with the seniment that the 'representation' for girls battling has been lackluster and poor of late and agree with many of it's criticisms
However the notions that 'girls aren't allowed to battle anymore' to me sounds completely wrong and something the anime has proved wrong even now. Girls are definitely 'allowed' too and are meant to battle just like boys are
Now regarding the handling of that, yeah its been lacking in XY-JN compared to OS-BW

 

[Gingertail24]

Exactly.

Also referring to Bianca as 'Ash's major/serious rival' is really pushing it lmfao. Especially when Bianca was treated as comedy relief more than anything, and Trip was Ash's main rival in BW. Call me when Ash gets a serious, non-comedy relief female rival.

He has korrina and Bea. But outside of that, nothing. Unless you mean series long rival, like Paul and Gary. Not ones he battles a few times and they basically disappeared after ash beats them ( Bea and korrina)

 

[nuzamaki90]

Also referring to Bianca as 'Ash's major/serious rival' is really pushing it lmfao. Especially when Bianca was treated as comedy relief more than anything, and Trip was Ash's main rival in BW. Call me when Ash gets a serious, non-comedy relief female rival.

Lol this is just moving the goalpost. Bianca IS a female rival to Ash. I called you 8 years ago when we got a “non-comedy relief female rival”, her name was Korrina, and then I called you again 2 years ago when we got another one, her name was Bea. Both times it went to voicemail :/

I mean really. Just watching Pokémon Journeys makes this whole point make no sense. Iris was the female companion in BW and she didn’t do any idol stuff, she was a battler, she competed in all of the tournaments, and now she’s the Unova Champion. Dawn was the female companion in DP who was doing Contests and still is yet in all 8 of her appearances all she was doing was battling. The Alola classmates didn’t do performing or were competitive trainers, and in their appearances they didn’t do anything but live their lives. Koharu has spent the entire show doing anything and everything she comes across, but when she tries out Contests with the established idol-oriented female companion, suddenly the writers are focused on making the females stick to cutesy non-battle roles. Sounds like a reach.

 

[Gingertail24]

Lol this is just moving the goalpost. Bianca IS a female rival to Ash. I called you 8 years ago when we got a “non-comedy relief female rival”, her name was Korrina, and then I called you again 2 years ago when we got another one, her name was Bea. Both times it went to voicemail :/

I mean really. Just watching Pokémon Journeys makes this whole point make no sense. Iris was the female companion in BW and she didn’t do any idol stuff, she was a battler, she competed in all of the tournaments, and now she’s the Unova Champion. Dawn was the female companion in DP who was doing Contests and still is yet in all 8 of her appearances all she was doing was battling. The Alola classmates didn’t do performing or were competitive trainers, and in their appearances they didn’t do anything but live their lives. Koharu has spent the entire show doing anything and everything she comes across, but when she tries out Contests with the established idol-oriented female companion, suddenly the writers are focused on making the females stick to cutesy non-battle roles. Sounds like a reach.

Korrina and Bea are fine rivals. But like I said, there rare compared to ash non comedian serious rivals. And yeah iris is champion but we're talking about main female characters AFTER BW. So the whole Dawn and iris point is kinda mute. The Alola girls rarely battled. Most of the battling were left with the boys. Heck we had multiple training episodes where the boys practiced together. Not once did the Alola girls have something like that.
Koharu had evee, yet she rarely battled compared to ash and goh. And after BW, every main pokegirl has the cutesy pokemon. Nothing wrong with that. But you notice how they stop having pokemon like Blaziken, mamoswine, excadrill, etc.

 

[nuzamaki90]

Korrina and Bea are fine rivals. But like I said, there rare compared to ash non comedian serious rivals. And yeah iris is champion but we're talking about main female characters AFTER BW. So the whole Dawn and iris point is kinda mute. The Alola girls rarely battled. Most of the battling were left with the boys. Heck we had multiple training episodes where the boys practiced together. Not once did the Alola girls have something like that.
Koharu had evee, yet she rarely battled compared to ash and goh. And after BW, every main pokegirl has the cutesy pokemon. Nothing wrong with that. But you notice how they stop having pokemon like Blaziken, mamoswine, excadrill, etc.

Ash’s female rivals are rare in general, because female rivals in the games were a rarity in themselves. And again, you guys keep moving the goalpost, when was it ever stated that you guys were just talking about “girls after BW”? The Alola girls battled a lot, mainly Lana. I think you are misremembering, because we only got one episode where all the boys trained together and that was during the period where they were preparing for the League. Otherwise it was just Ash training with Kiawe, because they are the ones who had battle oriented goals. Also,The girls DID have parts in the episode training at Lillie’s mansion in preparation for the League.

Also neither Goh or Sophocles have a battle oriented goal, does that mean the writers are doing it for some underlying motive? No! It’s because they want the characters to do something else that’s not strictly tied to battling. Koharu rarely battles because that’s not what she’s into. Goh rarely battles because he doesn’t deem it necessary for catching Pokémon. I think this “pattern” that you guys are referring to only applies to XY, and it’s only being brought up because surprise, the XY character that fits that role returned.

I’m not addressing most of this is because I explained it already. If you think you have some great take on this despite me discussing all of this then great.

I mean, okay? If you want to say wrong things and then put your fingers in your ears when someone says otherwise, go right ahead.

 

[Gingertail24]

Ash’s female rivals are rare in general, because female rivals in the games were a rarity in themselves. And again, you guys keep moving the goalpost, when was it ever stated that you guys were just talking about “girls after BW”? The Alola girls battled a lot, mainly Lana. I think you are misremembering, because we only got one episode where all the boys trained together and that was during the period where they were preparing for the League. Otherwise it was just Ash training with Kiawe, because they are the ones who had battle oriented goals. Also,The girls DID have parts in the episode training at Lillie’s mansion in preparation for the League.

Also neither Goh or Sophocles have a battle oriented goal, does that mean the writers are doing it for some underlying motive? No! It’s because they want the characters to do something else that’s not strictly tied to battling. Koharu rarely battles because that’s not what she’s into. Goh rarely battles because he doesn’t deem it necessary for catching Pokémon. I think this “pattern” that you guys are referring to only applies to XY, and it’s only being brought up because surprise, the XY character that fits that role returned.


I mean, okay? If you want to say wrong things and then put your fingers in your ears when someone says otherwise, go right ahead.

What's stopping them from making original female rivals? They did it with Paul and Alain. Just because female rivals are rare in the games doesn't stop them from making new ones. Stephan isn't in the game either is he? Also no the Alola girls didn't battle alot. They trained in lily mansion, but we don't see that at all. The boys had an whole episode dedicated to them training for the league. Couldn't spare one episode for the girls?

And I'm not understanding your point. So correct me if I'm wrong. But you say goh and sopochles barely had battle oriented goals. Ok , but I think that proves our point. They don't have battle oriented goals but they still battled way more than the girls (minus Lana I guess). Why couldn't mallow, Lillie, Serena, koharu battle too? They don't have battle oriented goals, doesn't mean they shouldn't battle. And goh battle. Not as much as ash, but he still battles. Especially since he is part of project mew now. So his captures decrease while his battle increased. Also the Alolan girls, even Lana, were absolutely curbstomped in the league. Even sopochles, who like you said doesn't have a battle oriented goal, put a actually decent fight against kiawe

Also there is the point where the girls feel mandated to have cutesy pokemon, compared to pokemon like mamoswine or dracovish after BW. Not saying the writers are sexist, but the battling representation for the female main characters need to improve. As well as having more female rivals

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

What's stopping them from making original female rivals? They did it with Paul and Alain. Just because female rivals are rare in the games doesn't stop them from making new ones. Stephan isn't in the game either is he? Also no the Alola girls didn't battle alot. They trained in lily mansion, but we don't see that at all. The boys had an whole episode dedicated to them training for the league. Couldn't spare one episode for the girls?

And I'm not understanding your point. So correct me if I'm wrong. But you say goh and sopochles barely had battle oriented goals. Ok , but I think that proves our point. They don't have battle oriented goals but they still battled way more than the girls (minus Lana I guess). Why couldn't mallow, Lillie, Serena, koharu battle too? They don't have battle oriented goals, doesn't mean they shouldn't battle. And goh battle. Not as much as ash, but he still battles. Especially since he is part of project mew now. So his captures decrease while his battle increased.

Also there is the point where the girls feel mandated to have cutesy pokemon, compared to pokemon like mamoswine or dracovish after BW. Not saying the writers are sexist, but the battling representation for the female main characters need to improve. As well as having more female rivals

Visquez existed, a literal anime OC made to replace the guy
Also again, the boys didnt get an episode training coz they are boys so F girls, that ep was about Sophocles and his development with Vikavolt they wanted to do, that particular storyline

 

[Gingertail24]

Visquez existed, a literal anime OC made to replace the guy
Also again, the boys didnt get an episode training coz they are boys so F girls, that ep was about Sophocles and his development with Vikavolt they wanted to do, that particular storyline

Not saying it's because "F girls". Just saying either way, the girl battling is seriously lacking. That still doesn't change the fact that why couldn't the girls get an episode?? They were all interested in the league, great idea for an episode. But for some reason they couldn't get an episode because? Also still says alot that the girls got curbstomped while the boys all put up a good fight. They apparently trained in the mansion, so?

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Not saying it's because "F girls". Just saying either way, the girl battling is seriously lacking. That still doesn't change the fact that why couldn't the girls get an episode?? They were all interested in the league, great idea for an episode. But for some reason they couldn't get an episode because? Also still says alot that the girls got curbstomped while the boys all put up a good fight. They apparently trained in the mansion, so?

Coz they were still not as well versed as the boys were! Again, Sophs did battle more because they chose that direction for him with regards to developing him and Vikavolt. With the girls, they went a separate way
I do agree that the girl representation for the main characters for battling need to improve more, but I dont think there's necessairly an underlying motive for that as some insinuate

 

[nuzamaki90]

What's stopping them from making original female rivals? They did it with Paul and Alain. Just because female rivals are rare in the games doesn't stop them from making new ones. Stephan isn't in the game either is he? Also no the Alola girls didn't battle alot. They trained in lily mansion, but we don't see that at all. The boys had an whole episode dedicated to them training for the league. Couldn't spare one episode for the girls?

And I'm not understanding your point. So correct me if I'm wrong. But you say goh and sopochles barely had battle oriented goals. Ok , but I think that proves our point. They don't have battle oriented goals but they still battled way more than the girls (minus Lana I guess). Why couldn't mallow, Lillie, Serena, koharu battle too? They don't have battle oriented goals, doesn't mean they shouldn't battle. And goh battle. Not as much as ash, but he still battles. Especially since he is part of project mew now. So his captures decrease while his battle increased.

Burgundy and Georgia were anime original female rivals, do they not count because they weren’t Ash’s? Shauna was Serena’s rival but she was still shown to be a good trainer outside of performing. You are definitely misremembering Sun and Moon because the Alola girls did battle whenever the time came for it, whether it was Ultra Guardians, Lusamine, Brock & Misty, Team Skull, Team Rocket, wild Pokémon, or the Pokémon League. And yes we DID see them training at Lillie’s mansion, what are you talking about? They trained together at the Pokémon School too.

You keep tip toeing around the original point being “the writers are putting the female companions into idol and passive non-battling cutesy roles” which only applies to Serena. Finally, the Alola girls got “curbstomped” just as much as anyone else did. They each fought trainers far better than them just like nearly everyone else. The only point I can actually agree with you on is the girls getting cutesy Pokémon nowadays which is dumb. Lana should’ve gotten Araquanid.

 

[Gingertail24]

Coz they were still not as well versed as the boys were! Again, Sophs did battle more because they chose that direction for him with regards to developing him and Vikavolt. With the girls, they went a separate way
I do agree that the girl representation for the main characters for battling need to improve more, but I dont think there's necessairly an underlying motive for that as some insinuate

Ok so we agree? Never said or meant they the writers are secretly sexist