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Is there official confirmation that Meltan and Melmetal are Gen 8 Pokemon after all?

SWMegaFan

Well-Known Member
Other that it’s been found out that Meltan & Melmetal are numbers 808 & 809 respectively on the National Pokédex (which is still a mystery to me as to how that bit of information was found out), what’s the official word on which Gen do these 2 mythical Pokemon fall under? Some people argue that they’re part of Gen 7 since they’re coming out during the “Gen 7 era” but then again, 1)they’re technically not in the main line RPG core games for Gen 7 (which LGPE aren’t considered core games) & 2)it’s not like we haven’t had this happen in the past (have a new Pokemon make an appearance in a spin-off game that’s released in the Gen before it debuts in the upcoming Gen’s RPG core games).
 
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BCVM22

Well-Known Member
There is no official word. They can be whichever you like for now. Next year’s game will tell the tale more than our current guesses.

Their National Pokédex numbers are displayed definitively in both Pokémon GO and Pokémon Let’s Go.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
I can only speak for myself but until shown otherwise I consider both of them to be Gen 7 Pokemom.
 

shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
I learned this a while back but generations is more of a fan term than an official term. According to most fans, Meltan and Melmetal are Gen 7 Pokemon because they debuted in official main series Pokemon games during Gen 7.
 

DBK

Renegade Trainer
I learned this a while back but generations is more of a fan term than an official term. According to most fans, Meltan and Melmetal are Gen 7 Pokemon because they debuted in official main series Pokemon games during Gen 7.
Except Go and Let's Go aren't main series pokemon games. One is a mobile spin off and the other is, for lack of a better term, a transitional spin off. They don't appear in the main gen 7 titles and are not transferable to said titles (although that could be due to the differences in platforms). It should be considered gen 8, at least technically, until we get more information.

Also, in the past we've had pokemon from a new gen appear in a current gen game and still be considered from the new gen. That still applies here even if it doesn't seem that way.
 

shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
Except Go and Let's Go aren't main series pokemon games. One is a mobile spin off and the other is, for lack of a better term, a transitional spin off. They don't appear in the main gen 7 titles and are not transferable to said titles (although that could be due to the differences in platforms). It should be considered gen 8, at least technically, until we get more information.

Also, in the past we've had pokemon from a new gen appear in a current gen game and still be considered from the new gen. That still applies here even if it doesn't seem that way.
Actually GameFreak confirmed that Let's Go are part of the main series. What the fans did is that they labeled Let's Go as a main series game but they did not label it as a core series game featuring the technicality and depth of the traditional series.
 

Sαpphire

Johto Champion
I think at this point, its best to wait until we have the next set of games. There’s no real information, and so far they’re weirdly tied to a remade region rather than a new one, which hasn’t really happened before. Given their complete unavailability in Alola, I don’t think they should ever be considered Gen 7. But if they’re not important mythical to the next region, they may not qualify as Gen 8 either. What they could be, and I’d be very happy if they were, is the start of the breakdown of the generation concept entirely.

Except Go and Let's Go aren't main series pokemon games. One is a mobile spin off and the other is, for lack of a better term, a transitional spin off. They don't appear in the main gen 7 titles and are not transferable to said titles (although that could be due to the differences in platforms). It should be considered gen 8, at least technically, until we get more information.

Also, in the past we've had pokemon from a new gen appear in a current gen game and still be considered from the new gen. That still applies here even if it doesn't seem that way.

Let’s Go are main series games, as confirmed by Game Freak. Where they lie in the fan-constructed generation system, though, is questionable as well.
 

DBK

Renegade Trainer
Actually GameFreak confirmed that Let's Go are part of the main series. What the fans did is that they labeled Let's Go as a main series game but they did not label it as a core series game featuring the technicality and depth of the traditional series.

Let’s Go are main series games, as confirmed by Game Freak. Where they lie in the fan-constructed generation system, though, is questionable as well.
I stand corrected. I didn't realize they were confirmed as main series titles. Either way, they still shouldn't be considered gen 7 pokemon.

Also agreed with Sapphire, the generation system really needs to go. It's too restrictive and causes some great mechanics/features to be abandoned.
 

RileyXY1

Young Battle Trainer
Meltan & Melmetal have their index numbers coded with the rest of the Gen VII Pokemon.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
the generation system really needs to go. It's too restrictive and causes some great mechanics/features to be abandoned.

It's not really a system. Nintendo and Game Freak have used "a new generation" in the general sense to describe new games at times, but the numbering system is mostly unofficial. There isn't anything to abandon.

Meltan & Melmetal have their index numbers coded with the rest of the Gen VII Pokemon.

No... they are National Pokédex numbers 808 and 809. Which, in the most literal fashion possible, puts them right after Generation VII and right before Generation VIII. Maybe they're in one group, maybe they're in the other, maybe they're in neither. To try and place them definitively right is a flawed effort without Generation VIII to provide the other half of the necessary context.
 
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shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
I stand corrected. I didn't realize they were confirmed as main series titles. Either way, they still shouldn't be considered gen 7 pokemon.

Also agreed with Sapphire, the generation system really needs to go. It's too restrictive and causes some great mechanics/features to be abandoned.
I thought the same to be honest, had a hard time processing that Meltan was a Gen 7 Pokemon, not Gen 8 but eventually I just thought he is a Gen 7 Pokemon since Let's Go is a Gen 7 game.
 
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DBK

Renegade Trainer
It's not really a system. Nintendo and Game Freak have used "a new generation" in the general sense to describe new games at times, but the numbering system is mostly unofficial. There isn't anything to abandon.
True enough. And the reason for some of the mechanics/features to not continue on to newer games is because of the changes in hardware/systems (unfortunately), not because they were new generations (ie having their own mechanics/features or refined versions of surviving mechanic/features that work for it's particular theming). So I can agree to that.

No... they are National Pokédex numbers 808 and 809. Which, in the most literal fashion possible, puts them right after Generation VII and right before Generation VIII. Maybe they're in one group, maybe they're in the other, maybe they're in neither. To try and place them definitively right is a flawed effort without Generation VIII to provide the other half of the necessary context.
And THIS. While I think that info makes it pretty clear that it's not a gen 7 mon, I agree that we really can't place it anywhere definitively until we get more information on Gen 8.
 

SWMegaFan

Well-Known Member
It is my understanding that TPCi does recognize the term “generation” as an official word in the Pokemon franchise (not just a fan term). Heck, even all Pokemon are classified in their respective generation in the National Pokédex function of Pokemon Bank. Furthermore, the National Pokédex numbers are official as well.
 

Prof. SALTY

The Scruffy Professor
I consider them both gen 8 until proven otherwise. Pokemon debuting in the gen before their dex is nothing new (whether through spin-offs, the anime, or a main game is irrelevant).
 

AgentKallus

It's not a game Kate.
To answer this question I will ask another.

What region would you put them in?

First option -Kanto- As not one of the original 151 I doubt people would allow the Meltan line to be classed as Kanto pokemon.

Second option -Alola- Meltan was not introduced until after Alola and is not in the Alola pokedex nor available in any of the Alola games, so it makes no sense to put it here.

Third option -Switch2019- If Meltan is in the next region's pokedex then that settles it, but if it isn't then that just complicates matters further.

Pokemon Go introduced Meltan, and Pokemon go organises Pokemon by region, which makes perfect sense. However organising by region is really just organising by gen but naming each gen after that generation's respective new region. Following that logic saying the Meltan line are gen 7 pokemon could be equivalent to saying they are Alolan which they are clearly not. So if the Meltan line are not Alolan then do we consider them an exception that are still gen 7 or do we consider them gen 8 pokemon that were revealed early, the best way to answer that is to wait and see.

Lets make up a hypothetical scenario. What if the meltan line was introduced mid-generation in a more traditional Pokemon remake? Say meltan was introduced in oras instead of pikavee then what region would we consider it? To me that would depend on whether it was available in xy via trade or etc, If it was it would likely be considered a Kalos pokemon even if to get it in Kalos one had to trade it over from Hoenn. What if oras couldn't interact with xy and it was thus impossible to have the pokemon in xy, in that case we couldn't consider it kalosian, right? but what would we consider it then? Hoennense? Alolan? but its not in the Alola dex!

It would be messy and so I'm hoping that meltan is in the Switch2019 dex and we can all call it a gen 8 Pokemon but as I said eariler the best way to answer that is to wait and see
 

Ariki

Well-Known Member
Here’s what we know;

Meltan and Melmetal’s index numbers are within the gen 7 range (gen 7 starts at 800 and ends at 899). Their index numbers are 891 and 892.

Note, the index number is not the same as the national dex number.

Pokemon LGPE are main series Gen 7 titles. We know this because the HUD and engine are based on the ones used for the other Gen 7 titles.

The other Gen 7 titles contain numerous easter eggs hinting at Let’s Go - such as the Kantonian style gym in USUM, the Kantonian style battle in USUM and the the fact that in USUM you can develop a relationship with your Pokemon and that has an impact on what happens in battle.

SM/USUM feature an unused icon on the status screen indicating that a Pokemon originates from PoGo.

The Gen 8 games will index gen 8 Pokemon from 900 - 999 and the graphics are going to be vastly different.
 

SWMegaFan

Well-Known Member
Here’s what we know;

Meltan and Melmetal’s index numbers are within the gen 7 range (gen 7 starts at 800 and ends at 899). Their index numbers are 891 and 892.

Note, the index number is not the same as the national dex number.

Pokemon LGPE are main series Gen 7 titles. We know this because the HUD and engine are based on the ones used for the other Gen 7 titles.

The other Gen 7 titles contain numerous easter eggs hinting at Let’s Go - such as the Kantonian style gym in USUM, the Kantonian style battle in USUM and the the fact that in USUM you can develop a relationship with your Pokemon and that has an impact on what happens in battle.

SM/USUM feature an unused icon on the status screen indicating that a Pokemon originates from PoGo.

The Gen 8 games will index gen 8 Pokemon from 900 - 999 and the graphics are going to be vastly different.

You make good points. However, I have a few questions:

1) How did you find out about the index numbers? Also, what happens if there’s more than 100 new Pokemon introduced in Gen 8? Wouldn’t the index numbers pass 999 in that case?

2)What’s a HUD? And how do you know about its engine? Also, I was under the impression that Pokemon LGPE were just spin-offs/side games of Gen 7.

3) If Meltan and Melmetal are truly part of Gen 7, then why don’t the games USUM recognize those two Pokemon in their coding? After all, USUM are the core RPG games of Gen 7.
 

lolipiece

Pictured: what browsing Serebii does to a person
Staff member
Moderator
3) If Meltan and Melmetal are truly part of Gen 7, then why don’t the games USUM recognize those two Pokemon in their coding? After all, USUM are the core RPG games of Gen 7.

Poipole, Naganadel, Blacephalon, Stakataka, and Zeraora weren't in the base SM, so Meltan and Melmetal not being in USUM doesn't really mean much.

Things are different now since new Pokemon can be added mid-Generation.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
Here’s what we know

Any number of these things are not things we "know." People can say "well, they're definitively Generation VII" until all involved parties are blue in the face, but that does not make it so in and of itself.

Trying to place them definitively without Generation VIII to provide the other half of the necessary context remains a partial effort, at absolute best.
 

Cometstarlight

What do I do now?
I feel like people often forget that the mythical doesn't have to be at the end of the pokedex for their respective region. If that were the case Victini would be Gen IV since it comes right after Arceus and before Snivy.

I honestly think it's a gen 8 Pokemon, but I really don't care either way. Meltan is Meltan, as far as I'm concerned.
 
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