Is there really character development in Pokémon?

[PokemonNation2000]

when you compare OS Ash to current Ash you can definitely tell where he's grown.

No, all I can tell is that he now smokes cigarettes continuously and a voice that fits a 17 year old more than his actual age of 10, and that he lacks the depth of character and profound emotional range as well as character he demonstrated back then as opposed to now. If anything, he's devolved over time as a character.
If we're talking in terms of a trainer, though, then I agree he's grown in that respect.

 

[chalkus]

None of the girls have more or less personality than the others. They're all based on whatever stereotypes the writers give them.

Also Dawn influencing Ash's battles really doesn't say much about Dawn herself. It's simply because he started using contest techniques because he saw they worked.

But he did not see how contest moves could work in battles with May. Also, the other Pokegirls did not influence his battle style like Dawn did. She practically won his badges or him.

 

[Geo-Oblivion's Wrath]

She practically won his badges or him.

So did Serena in terms of Viola's Gym. As for Dawn, I can only recall her sitting in the sidelines for at least five of the Sinnoh Gyms. I don't recall her having any direct influence over Ash's battling style whatsoever.

 

[chalkus]

So did Serena in terms of Viola's Gym. As for Dawn, I can only recall her sitting in the sidelines for at least five of the Sinnoh Gyms. I don't recall her having any direct influence over Ash's battling style whatsoever.

What? The spin move, the ice aqua jet, using contest moves in battles, trading Buizel...

She had a profound effect on his battling.

 

[Geo-Oblivion's Wrath]

What? The spin move, the ice aqua jet, using contest moves in battles, trading Buizel...

She had a profound effect on his battling.

The first three, I can live with. But trading Buizel? I currently don't see what difference it would've made if Ash didn't have Buizel.

And I find it a bit outlandish to say things like Dawn won his badges for him.

 

[chalkus]

Ash would have lost to Maylene and Crasher Wake without Buizel. And Dawn did win his badges for him in a sense because without her Buizel and the techniques he copied from her, he would have lost some of his gym battles.

 

[Lord Trollbias]

Ash would have lost to Maylene and Crasher Wake without Buizel. And Dawn did win his badges for him in a sense because without her Buizel and the techniques he copied from her, he would have lost some of his gym battles.

Ash could just have used or caught a different Pokemon for those attles. Pikachu could have taken Wake. Hell they might have even given him Gile earlier and had the Dragon stomp those gyms.

 

[KJC]

Lol, what show are you watching? Both of their personalities were very well defined as well as different from Misty. Seriously are you trying to be clever by saying they had little personality or were indistinguishable?

Please tell me what the differences were. I'm not trashing them, I just genuinely did not see any noticeable character differences between May and Dawn.

Well, May might have been a bit more feisty, but that was because of her brother being annoying.

 

[Lorde]

May and Dawn had so little personality compared to Misty that they were almost indistinguishable. Maybe I'm in the minority but I literally could not tell the difference.

If we're comparing them to Kanto/Orange Islands Misty, then I agree. But even though I'm a huge Misty fan, I thought her personality became bland in Johto. I mean the same applies to Ash and Brock too imo, but it was more noticeable with Misty. I think May and Dawn both had their moments, but overall I didn't think they were all-that dynamic aside from the development that they got, which is worth praising.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

If we're comparing them to Kanto/Orange Islands Misty, then I agree. But even though I'm a huge Misty fan, I thought her personality became bland in Johto. I mean the same applies to Ash and Brock too imo, but it was more noticeable with Misty. I think May and Dawn both had their moments, but overall I didn't think they were all-that dynamic aside from the development that they got, which is worth praising.

I wouldn't say she got bland at all in Johto, in fact Misty had many memorable moments and highly vibrant, full of life characterization even there.

Its more that writers focused too much on repetitive formula based on COTD and their problems pushing main cast including Misty in background preventing her from being more active, display more of her characterization and doing what she knows best. Problem with Johto concerning Misty but Ash, Brock pretty much everyone came from writers inexperuence in pacing out and filling with more relevant growth long sagas which lasted for 3 years or so being their first try. Lose of GS ball plot which served as main vector to push things forward and main plot which led Ash and others to Johto didn't helped either finding themselves in dark not knowing in what direction to take things forward either -Taking some time to reorganize and make anime become more plot based as evidenced with Master Quest starting with Whirl Islands.

However generally looking in Johto i noticed she showed plenty of humor, flare and genuine curiosity coming in light of strong, competent character .
With Misty generally when not being pushed to sidelines still being compassionate , stubborn and hotheaded not letting others to mess with her, cynical often joking with Ash, Brock or others and highly passionate about pokemon, dreams and love being flirty zooming around things she was interested in. Only notable difference was that she was more calm compared to Kanto which was sign of development, maturity.

But never to point of losing her appeal still having lot of fire, spunk and life in her interactions.


Finding it in least hand hypocritical when Ash(referring to Hoenn and DP), Dawn or May matured being praised as better and equally fun characters. Buton other hand when Misty matured some view it as "derailment"instead of growth acting like only violent aspect of character from early Kanto(when punched others)was personality, forgetting how Misty had much more to her(romantic side, sarcasm, determination, passion for battling and water types, feistiness and stubborn attitude etc with anger as well remaining but being expressed in verbal less violent way). Especially during chronicles and cameos which depicted Misty character growth nin most consustent and clear way showing to became more responsible not being insecure in herself so much like she used to be while still being quirky, fierce and tomboyish finding right balance between her hotheaded and girly side.

Maturity actually allowed for some great character development with Misty overcoming some of long time problems such as gaining sisters respect, getting over Gyarados fear, being willing to let go ones she loves knowing whats best for them(like Togetic) , became more open and comsiderate as person developing very tight bond with Ash and Brock during travels and got over complex of feeling inferior growing in "stronger" character and trainer who knew how to take care of herself betterm be more independent and levelheaded without losing her charm.

Thats not a bad thing, its simply evolution of character, learning on its flaws and mistakes with more deoth and dimension being added to him through build upo on already exiusting traits along with beimng enriched with some new ones.

But Misty growth for some weird reason is often overlooked.

 

[CyberCubed]

Please tell me what the differences were. I'm not trashing them, I just genuinely did not see any noticeable character differences between May and Dawn.

Well, May might have been a bit more feisty, but that was because of her brother being annoying.

I really hope you're joking, either that or it doesn't sound like you watched much more than 5 episodes of Hoenn or the DP arc.

The only overlap in their personalities was the obvious interest in Contests and being somewhat more girly than the other females, but other than that they were fairly different. And even then May wasn't really that girly overall.

 

[Caseydia]

Please tell me what the differences were. I'm not trashing them, I just genuinely did not see any noticeable character differences between May and Dawn.

Well, May might have been a bit more feisty, but that was because of her brother being annoying.

I don't know if this is true or not but I agree that certain situations like siblings can give the characters something to develop on. If May didn't have a brother than May's personality would have been a slight different.

The only overlap in their personalities was the obvious interest in Contests and being somewhat more girly than the other females, but other than that they were fairly different. And even then May wasn't really that girly overall.

I've watched all of AG and she had her girly aspects just like the other girls. Dawn had a bit more but still I wish people wouldn't make it like being girly is a crime. I was a very girly girl too growing up so I sympathize with both Dawn and Serena.

 

[Mocksie]

Jessie finally learned how to use her Wobuffet correctly after several seasons. Does that count as character development?

Several of Ash's less than friendly rivals have also shown character development as the season progresses (Trip, Gary, Paul, etc.) whether it be by changing their attitude or improving their relationship with Ash.

As far as Ash himself goes, he has shown very little development imo. His "skill" in Pokemon battles is very inconsistently portrayed. Sometimes they show Ash prevailing in incredibly difficult battles, where other times they show him losing to pokemon/people who he should beat no problem... like level 5 Snivys. And I can understand if Ash's new pokemon lose to opponents like that, but there is no reason that, Pikachu, the pokemon Ash has been working with forever, should lose to such an easy opponent. That is very poor continuity and does not show any growth or improvement with him or Pikachu.

 

[OfCorsola]

In my opinion, Ash had all development in season 6 is where it stopped he became more bland, and not like his self. Brock and Mistys development stopped in OS. They then were pushed asides like nobody's, (poor Brock was treated like this all up until DP and Misty's story wasn't finished)
Then we got May. IMO she had some great devolpment. Form a clumsy, noob to a rocking pokemon coordinator. At first she didn't like pokemon but she learned to love them. That's some great development we got in like the first 20 episodes. I was impressed. She had some great character reflection with Ash, Brock and wow Drew, and her amazing sibling relationship with Max.
Now there's Team Rocket who were just like Brock.
Then there's Dawn...IMHO she had best development. I thought she was the star of DP (Ash bored me, and like I said Brock was neglected) I felt like she was such a strong character, and even though she's not my favorite I have a liking towards her and she grew so much that she beat everyone. She had great growth that she didn't need more because it was complete.
As for Iris and Cilan? I felt like they were there to be there cilan was interesting but they didn't have much growth. It was a short arc anyways.
Clemont and Bonnie. I like the way things are going with them and I can see then growing. They have potential already I just need to see more of hem.
Ah yes, Serena. I did not like her as much at first, (because she had no goal)but as each episode comes it portrays her potential. She just needs a goal to get that character growth. So it's unknown about her.

 

[k6666]

there is for the sidekick but for ash no cause he forget everything he learned from previous saga , i rather writer develop and glorified the sidekick cause they never get reset cause what is point of the CD if the character forgot all about it

 

[chalkus]

In my opinion, Ash had all development in season 6 is where it stopped he became more bland, and not like his self. Brock and Mistys development stopped in OS. They then were pushed asides like nobody's, (poor Brock was treated like this all up until DP and Misty's story wasn't finished)
Then we got May. IMO she had some great devolpment. Form a clumsy, noob to a rocking pokemon coordinator. At first she didn't like pokemon but she learned to love them. That's some great development we got in like the first 20 episodes. I was impressed. She had some great character reflection with Ash, Brock and wow Drew, and her amazing sibling relationship with Max.
Now there's Team Rocket who were just like Brock.
Then there's Dawn...IMHO she had best development. I thought she was the star of DP (Ash bored me, and like I said Brock was neglected) I felt like she was such a strong character, and even though she's not my favorite I have a liking towards her and she grew so much that she beat everyone. She had great growth that she didn't need more because it was complete.
As for Iris and Cilan? I felt like they were there to be there cilan was interesting but they didn't have much growth. It was a short arc anyways.
Clemont and Bonnie. I like the way things are going with them and I can see then growing. They have potential already I just need to see more of hem.
Ah yes, Serena. I did not like her as much at first, (because she had no goal)but as each episode comes it portrays her potential. She just needs a goal to get that character growth. So it's unknown about her.

The thing with Brock was that instead of being given character development, he was given a role. He was the dependable one, the chef, the caretaker. He did get some development in DP, like when he helped out that Nurse Joy in the rundown Pokemon Center, when he helped Autumn at the maid cafe and when he rushed back to care for Dawn's Pokemon when it got sick. I would have preferred better development but at least Brock got to be in the show for as long as he did.

 

[Shiny pokemon lower]

The character development in the Pokemon Anime is in general to bad in my opinion. The Writers don't always let Ash's pokemon og to their fullest potential or Ash himself and his Companions often stop growing in the middle of their time in their time in the show.
The Team Rocket trio is almost in the same boat or perhaps even worse! After they Catch one or two pokemon each nothing else happens with them. Theyr'e mostly there only as an extra comedy to the episode. Even trough the change in the BW Saga didn't work well they could at last got some legally captured pokemon for Team Rocket and their pokemon could gradually become stronger and learning new mowes just like the pokemon to Ash and his friends.
I won't judge the Kalos Saga yet. Mabye The Writer have learned from all complaints they have gotten and now finally tries to do something with that? I have my doubts, but I still can hope...

 

[CyberCubed]

The thing with Brock was that instead of being given character development, he was given a role. He was the dependable one, the chef, the caretaker. He did get some development in DP, like when he helped out that Nurse Joy in the rundown Pokemon Center, when he helped Autumn at the maid cafe and when he rushed back to care for Dawn's Pokemon when it got sick. I would have preferred better development but at least Brock got to be in the show for as long as he did.

Brock's development ended with Johto. Ash didn't rely on him as a mentor anymore and he was pushed to the sidelines because Ash helped May and Dawn instead.

Considering how long Brock was in the series the fact that he barely went through any development at all is pretty disappointing. He barely developed any better than Iris or Cilan.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Brock's development ended with Johto. Ash didn't rely on him as a mentor anymore and he was pushed to the sidelines because Ash helped May and Dawn instead.

Please do explain how exactly? When Brock developed more in Hoenn than he ever did in Johto in learning how to become better breeder, learned about various ways of pookemon healing, preparing potion or pokemon food through course of Hoenn generation., Met several other breeders like Yuma and Isis.
Applied his knpowledge in various issues concerning pokemon like incident with Shiftree who kidnapped nurse Joy, saving Mudkip leading to capture, Solrock who caused drought in village being misunderstood by people, Donphan which fallen in love. Or curing sick pokemon like Sharpedo, Bagon, Nuzleaf, taking care of baby Bonsly growing as pokemon caretaker a lot in noticeable way.

Caught more pokemon, evolved his Lotad and Mudkip, battled far more compared to Johto. Had sparring battles with Ash like Torkoal vs Lombre or Growyle vs Mudkip. Entered various events like contest, pokemon orientering, cheerleading deceiving institute, fought at Pewter gym in ntag battle with Ash(one of his best battles imo) etc.

Along with events during Battle Frontier and taking care of suck nurse Joy starting to ignite within Brock character more and more interest in becoming doctor.

Feeling like valuable member of AG cast interacting very good with May, Max and Ash.

Likewise statement of Brck not mentoing Ash in AG is simply untrue. What about preparing strategy after losing vs gym leader Brawley? Against Winona? Advicing what strategy and attacks to use against gym leaders like Flannery, warning him about special abilities like overgrowth, hidden power and frenzy plant?

Making sure that Ash and co dont fall recklessly without proper plan in dangerous areas, eat poison food, searched for specific berries required to restore pokemon health etc.
Often providing tips and moral support.

Brock developed more in Hoen than he did in Johto, battled more and received more focus yet some weird picture is painted of his character being "apparently "sidelined more there" not having role? Ash and May obviously got more focus(main star and females always get more), however that doesnt change fact that Brock still got more spotlight focusing on his career and subtle, but still visible character growth than it was case in Johto series where he was sidelined even more than Misty did.

Who at least got some compensation in Master Quest with Whirl Islands, several episodes focusing on her growth bonding with other characters like Sakura finding common language in helping to overcome problems with older siblings, Dorian in proving her worth as trainer, revealed why she liked water pokenon and growing to understand and respect better others like hotheaded trainer of fire pokemon who tried to catch Macargo etc. While utilizing more her pokenon and played subrole in several episodes like dealing with Ninetales, helping others like girl singer to retrieve her Igglybuf, tried to stop wild Sneasel, protect Diglet village from burglars etc.Beiung more active and lively in characterization due to more exposure.

What Brock exactly got there? Not much aside from having closer bond and better chemistry with Misty contributing to original trio interactions feeling more fluid, emotional and full of flare and unbounding support compared to Ag cast imo. But in screentime Brock still got better treatment in Hoenn in reality.

 

[Nodame]

In my opinion, Ash had all development in season 6 is where it stopped he became more bland, and not like his self. Brock and Mistys development stopped in OS. They then were pushed asides like nobody's, (poor Brock was treated like this all up until DP and Misty's story wasn't finished)
Then we got May. IMO she had some great devolpment. Form a clumsy, noob to a rocking pokemon coordinator. At first she didn't like pokemon but she learned to love them. That's some great development we got in like the first 20 episodes. I was impressed. She had some great character reflection with Ash, Brock and wow Drew, and her amazing sibling relationship with Max.
Now there's Team Rocket who were just like Brock.
Then there's Dawn...IMHO she had best development. I thought she was the star of DP (Ash bored me, and like I said Brock was neglected) I felt like she was such a strong character, and even though she's not my favorite I have a liking towards her and she grew so much that she beat everyone. She had great growth that she didn't need more because it was complete.
As for Iris and Cilan? I felt like they were there to be there cilan was interesting but they didn't have much growth. It was a short arc anyways.
Clemont and Bonnie. I like the way things are going with them and I can see then growing. They have potential already I just need to see more of hem.
Ah yes, Serena. I did not like her as much at first, (because she had no goal)but as each episode comes it portrays her potential. She just needs a goal to get that character growth. So it's unknown about her.

Omg wow I agree with every word you've said! great minds think alike lol