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Is there really character development in Pokémon?

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OfCorsola

Brock and Misty!
Omg wow I agree with every word you've said! great minds think alike ;) lol
Lol, I'm glad we do agree :D I know I wan't clarifying ENOUGH, so if there's confusion let me know :D
@Pokemonfan132 I enjoy reading your posts. We may not agree on EVERYTHING, but you do make sense and I do look up to what you mean.
 

Nodame

Misty <3
Misty had less screen time in Johto compared to early Kanto. She was in the background most of the time. She did get some development like the whirl cup, but still wasn't enough at all. We need more than that. Her story was unfinished, sad.
 
Please do explain how exactly? When Brock developed more in Hoenn than he ever did in Johto in learning how to become better breeder, learned about various ways of pookemon healing, preparing potion or pokemon food through course of Hoenn generation., Met several other breeders like Yuma and Isis.
Applied his knpowledge in various issues concerning pokemon like incident with Shiftree who kidnapped nurse Joy, saving Mudkip leading to capture, Solrock who caused drought in village being misunderstood by people, Donphan which fallen in love. Or curing sick pokemon like Sharpedo, Bagon, Nuzleaf, taking care of baby Bonsly growing as pokemon caretaker a lot in noticeable way.

Caught more pokemon, evolved his Lotad and Mudkip, battled far more compared to Johto. Had sparring battles with Ash like Torkoal vs Lombre or Growyle vs Mudkip. Entered various events like contest, pokemon orientering, cheerleading deceiving institute, fought at Pewter gym in ntag battle with Ash(one of his best battles imo) etc.

Along with events during Battle Frontier and taking care of suck nurse Joy starting to ignite within Brock character more and more interest in becoming doctor.

Feeling like valuable member of AG cast interacting very good with May, Max and Ash.

Likewise statement of Brck not mentoing Ash in AG is simply untrue. What about preparing strategy after losing vs gym leader Brawley? Against Winona? Advicing what strategy and attacks to use against gym leaders like Flannery, warning him about special abilities like overgrowth, hidden power and frenzy plant?

Making sure that Ash and co dont fall recklessly without proper plan in dangerous areas, eat poison food, searched for specific berries required to restore pokemon health etc.
Often providing tips and moral support.

Brock developed more in Hoen than he did in Johto, battled more and received more focus yet some weird picture is painted of his character being "apparently "sidelined more there" not having role? Ash and May obviously got more focus(main star and females always get more), however that doesnt change fact that Brock still got more spotlight focusing on his career and subtle, but still visible character growth than it was case in Johto series where he was sidelined even more than Misty did.

Who at least got some compensation in Master Quest with Whirl Islands, several episodes focusing on her growth bonding with other characters like Sakura finding common language in helping to overcome problems with older siblings, Dorian in proving her worth as trainer, revealed why she liked water pokenon and growing to understand and respect better others like hotheaded trainer of fire pokemon who tried to catch Macargo etc. While utilizing more her pokenon and played subrole in several episodes like dealing with Ninetales, helping others like girl singer to retrieve her Igglybuf, tried to stop wild Sneasel, protect Diglet village from burglars etc.Beiung more active and lively in characterization due to more exposure.

What Brock exactly got there? Not much aside from having closer bond and better chemistry with Misty contributing to original trio interactions feeling more fluid, emotional and full of flare and unbounding support compared to Ag cast imo. But in screentime Brock still got better treatment in Hoenn in reality.

I think Brock was handled well until Sinnoh, tbh, so I wholeheartedly agree with all of this-- that said, I think his character just wasn't as memorable in AG to some as in Johto because of how iconic the original trio of Ash/Misty/Brock was. Not to mention Brock's awesome entrance where he saved Ash, May, and Max from the flock of Tailow attacking them all at once-- that was great.
 

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
I think Brock was handled well until Sinnoh

I disagree. I think he peaked in OS (Kanto) and while I was glad at first that he returned for the Johto saga, I felt that all the quirks that made him a funny character became forced and tired. I got bored of him in early Johto and I didn't enjoy him at all after that. I blame the writers for not handling his character well. I mean if they had him leave the cast in the first place, they probably should've stood by their decision instead of bringing him back, which didn't do his character any favors imo.
 
I disagree. I think he peaked in OS (Kanto) and while I was glad at first that he returned for the Johto saga, I felt that all the quirks that made him a funny character became forced and tired. I got bored of him in early Johto and I didn't enjoy him at all after that. I blame the writers for not handling his character well. I mean if they had him leave the cast in the first place, they probably should've stood by their decision instead of bringing him back, which didn't do his character any favors imo.
I can see that standpoint, but you gotta admit Sinnoh is where he really took a nosedive-- I still think he was fine until that point, though, personally.
 
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CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
I can see that standpoint, but you gotta admit Sinnoh is where he really took a nosedive-- I still think he was fine until that point, though, personally.

True he was still enjoyable personality wise in AG, but it didn't feel like he was going through development anymore. I think that's the topic. I liked Brock in AG but felt his development ended in Johto.

Honestly I thought Brock's AG clothes made him look cooler though.
 
True he was still enjoyable personality wise in AG, but it didn't feel like he was going through development anymore. I think that's the topic. I liked Brock in AG but felt his development ended in Johto.

Honestly I thought Brock's AG clothes made him look cooler though.

Yeah, I can definitely see that now that I think about it.

I liked both his OS and AG clothes: his DP clothes didn't look good on him, though, but then DP and him was a terrible combination.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Yeah, I can definitely see that now that I think about it.

I liked both his OS and AG clothes: his DP clothes didn't look good on him, though, but then DP and him was a terrible combination.

DP Ash was more mature; the only problem was that he was also written at times to be unnecessarily bland and/or a battle machine. In theory, his characterization fit well his growth as a Pokemon trainer.

And DP Ash looked good in that outfit. Probably my favorite.
 
DP Ash was more mature; the only problem was that he was also written at times to be unnecessarily bland and/or a battle machine. In theory, his characterization fit well his growth as a Pokemon trainer.

And DP Ash looked good in that outfit. Probably my favorite.

I was talking about Brock, man...

Too bad DP Ash's characterization was weak as a character despite being strong as a trainer, since you bring him up-- that was my issue with him.

I honestly didn't like his DP outfit either, but to each his own: his OS one is my favorite.

I will say DP Ash was a much better char. than DP Brock, though.
 
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Navin

MALDREAD
I was talking about Brock, man...

Oh, my bad.

Too bad DP Ash's characterization was weak as a character despite being strong as a trainer, since you bring him up-- that was my issue with him.

Hmm maybe if I ever have time I'll rewatch some of the old DP episodes and see how my perception has changed over time. I know I preferred DP Ash over BW Ash though.

I honestly didn't like his DP outfit either, but to each his own: his OS one is my favorite.I will say DP Ash was a much better char. than DP Brock, though.

OS outfit is iconic. In terms of actual design, honestly looking at them, I have to say that DP Ash looked the best. BW would have been amazing if it was designed like this: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bwsHyH2TR0I/Tof7r9ZDBhI/AAAAAAAAAd4/KPVDv7fcG7A/s1600/bw_satoshi_by_lemontehping-d308ypa.jpg
 

ThatGuyWithCommonSense

What common sense?
Hmm maybe if I ever have time I'll rewatch some of the old DP episodes and see how my perception has changed over time. I know I preferred DP Ash over BW Ash though.
I think almost everyone will prefer DP Ash over BW Ash.

In all honesty, there is character development, but it's just subtle and changes depending on who are the writer.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Misty had less screen time in Johto compared to early Kanto. She was in the background most of the time. She did get some development like the whirl cup, but still wasn't enough at all. We need more than that. Her story was unfinished, sad.

In a way Misty character development in Kanto, Orange and later half of Johto followed different direction being mostly focused on Misty personality, emotional growth rather than focusing on her career of becoming water master and variuous ambitions she may had(like Dawn for example had which grew as coordinator but barely changed as person). Her development was more gradual happening due to line of various events, issues she faced against and circumstances leaving effect on character. Along with sometime experiencing direct change through episodes like overcoming Gyarados fear, learning to understand better water pokemon like Marill when saving its life, growing to like Psyduck despite getting on her nerves or sharing her own tragic past and childhood with Ash and Brock revealing how underneath rough surface and tough attitude is hiding insecure girl, full of fears and desire to be noticed and acknowledged for her qualities.

As time went on through individual episodes where writers dived in Misty inner thoughts and personal feelings over someone or something, moments where she struggled, had selfdoubts about her own appearance, skills as trainer and various issues not being sure where she stands as person; changes began happening within her molding to become person she was and is today. Subtly but notably starting to mature and evolve.

Because of that i feel emotionally Misty changed more than any other male protagonist beside Ash and out of girls only May seemed to change to such extent as character like she did making it seem like all struggles and failures they went through, challenges they had to overcome , personal fears and development of new skills had them evolve as characters becoming stronger as result of that. While always staying true to herself with writers exploring more facets than just nagging and complaining which made Misty feel complete and multidimensional.
For instance in Orange Islands she showed more of her romantic side liking to flirt and pair other couples together like Nidoran couple, in Johto we sawed more of her spirit and passion for battling and water types, spirit for adventure falling for romantic and cute stuff(Teddiursa thief being one of great examples). along with snarky side becoming more centered on teasing and moral support .

Not everything was handled good, consistent and adequatelly paced , but at end of the day Misty became more mature, filled with independence and selfesteem discovering her own talent and qualities she posess as person proving strength to several people out there who underestimated her trainer skills and knowledge., As well more open and compassionate toward her friends and others being able to connect with people who suffered from same issues as she did using her own experience as medium to help them overcome theirs without losing her appeal remaining that same adventurous girl with lot of spunk who liked to playfully tease, stand up for weak having that fiery passion for competition.

But yes it goes without saying how Misty left prematurely leaving much more to be desired and be explored about character.

She is great character being mistake to have her leave considering how writers left lot of untapped potential for further development unused, lot of things about her past, goals and ambitions unexplored resulting in getting dumped with no resolution to story met, using gym as last minute excuse of keeping her out of cast. With specials after departure while offering some great growth not providing any real resolution to various plots of story centered around her with whole future and in what way dreams and desires will play out being left uncleared, open..
Like goal of water master and further expand on what it entails, potential to do more with her pokemon team, explore world and learn about water types and various cultures as much as she can. To fact of writers never fleshing out Misty and her backstory enough leaving lot of things to be desired and veiled with mystery about unresolved flaws, issues, lack of resolution in understanding pokemon feelings on close level using them to full potential etc.

True he was still enjoyable personality wise in AG, but it didn't feel like he was going through development anymore. I think that's the topic. I liked Brock in AG but felt his development ended in Johto.

Honestly I thought Brock's AG clothes made him look cooler though.

I guess it depoends on what each of us considers to be character development than though. I dont feel need to reinstate my points once again(did it at least three times in this thread)but personally i felt Brock continued to grow as breeder, showed signs of starting to consider shifting his career toward something else and came on better terms with his family). Being one of reasons why i felt staying in AG brought him more benefit than hindrance.
 

p96822

Evolve me please
Will I wouldn't say that Misty wasn't that well devolveped like you said in a way. I felt that there could've been more to her charater then emotion. I think Iris and Deino episode was better of show of understanding Dragon type and learn more of Iris past then we got with Misty. I felt that Misty Pokemon were very underdevoped then most of the other female protagasts to me not caring about Misty's goal of being a Water Pokemon Master. If the writters when deeper with her charater along side her sister then I could I like Misty much more then I do now.

I think Iris was much better in the devolvemped then Misty.Even though Iris doesn't have the firely determintion that Misty has, but I felt they worked on Iris' story much more and give more to the Pokemon training then anything else. Iris had trouble with her Pokemon and she needed to learn her Pokemon emotion and care for them. Unlike Psyduck, Iris' Pokemon had some hard time listening to her insead of being comic relife. Iris also has the upper hand of having people to look up to. Even though you can say Misty had the one elte four member to look too, Iris had the champion of the sinnoh league to look up to in a big way. Also she helped Iris out to learn a little bit more about her new Dragonite. So Iris had a better hand then Misty when it came to her story.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Iris compared to Misty in my book was both, handled better but also worse in some aspects. As far as focus goes she received more attention toward her career of becoming dragon master and her pokemon got more focus in their training and working on overcoming flaws.

But as far as development goes while she got insufficient amount of fleshing out i find Misty growth was executed in quite believable manner. She struggled, had emotional crisis and worked hard for everything she got.

With Misty you could say writers never explored much on her goals and story with Iris obviously gaining more expansion on her dragon master niche and what it incolves. She not only met but battled other experts like Drayden and Cynthia and worked in growing to undertand sdragon feelings and flaws syncronizing with them on more closer level than any other female(pretty much most characters did), but i still believe writers in Misty case did pretty good job at developing her in personality sense which got carried over onto her story.
Changed more as character compared to Iris resulting in what i consider believable and memorable growth.

In nutshell she grew from short tempered, frustrated girl into more mature, filled with confidence person who got out of sister shadow, started to take more initiative herself, discovered value of fruiendship appreciating Ash and Brock friendship and overcome some fears like Gyarados with most of growth coming through individual episodes where she bond with pokemon, battled or experienced selfdoubts while gradually changing over course of OS remaining playful and spunky in more mature light. In that aspect i appreciated writers work puttong lot of thought in conveying this in endearing and fun manner.

Looking back inconsistency and not enough clearly defined path through which Misty character development was unfold was in many ways understandable since formula was different back than with most of Misty role being compound of acting like coach, mentor to Ash. Bringing lot of comedy, fun interaction and conflict in main cast ,served as motivator and someone who pushed others forward through her defiant demeanor, often heped in resolution of plots(like crisis with enraged pokemon like Tentacruel, sunken ships like St. Anne, helping in getting other couples together or saving people lives or coming up with plans how to get group out of forest or desert landscape when they got lost etc) playing more role of classic heroine bringing indentity and appeal toward this show.

While having her story, dreams of learning as much as she can about water types, meet other spoecialists, had broken relationship with sisters and issues from past which haunted her and gave more insight behind way she acted and had approach toward other characters , pokemon she used in battling or rescue operations etc.

Misty came in pokemon during era when more emphasis was put on journey aspect, friendship and introspection of human personalities and close bonds constructed between them resulting in pokemon, careers and plots taking backseat at times(even Ash trained much less and his pokemon personalities werent explored nearly as much compared to today). Not necessarily bad, its just pokemon anime functioned differently back than.

Making Misty because of that going through growth as character, but her own dreams and story were falling behind not being explored and fleshed out as much as they could had been. As strange as it may sound.
 

p96822

Evolve me please
I think if they give Misty's sister devolvement or see more of their past I would I have been more instered in Misty.
 

Caseydia

Ace Trainer
I think if they give Misty's sister devolvement or see more of their past I would I have been more instered in Misty.

I think every one of the main girls holds a certain interest to a certain person. I was more drawn to May because she was a little naïve like me who liked to travel and don't really care about all that battle stuff. Plus, most of the pokemon she had was the ones I had in my game and she was the real first female co star to have her own quest and rivals besides Ash. So when it comes to development, it depends on what the writers are in the mood for I guess.
 
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