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Is this considered Sueish?

Discussion in 'The Authors' Café' started by TheBlackDuelist, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. TheBlackDuelist

    TheBlackDuelist Well-Known Member

    Wow, 5 threads in a couple of days lol. Forgive me if this is seems annoying but I just have alot of questions.

    So, in my story I give my Protagonist (well, the main one anyways), a gauntlet on his arm for plot reasons. This gauntlet is able to do a number of different things. So i have three questions:

    1. ) If you can explain it properly, can you have a person talk with Pokemon? I'm not saying that the person in general is special, rather it's an item that makes it possible, but with certain conditions. Is this considered cliche?

    2.) A Pokemon that is very weak in terms of stats and move pool, can it gain a great amount of strength from sheer training? Martial arts to be more specific. Giving him a great deal of strength but a lack of movepool is essentially is what I am saying.

    3.) I've developed a specific team of Pokemon for my character's team who all exhibit the traits he admires in a Pokemon. If some of them are from different regions, would it make sense to place some of them in the region where he is at? (Ex: A Beldum appearing in Sinnoh?)

    Thanks, any tips/advance would be greatly appreciated.
  2. SoulMuse

    SoulMuse Shadow of nothing

    Well, honestly, in my experience reading fan fiction, the idea of requiring an item to talk to Pokemon is actually quite original, especially if you have some kind of restrictions on it. The only thing I would stay away from there would probably be making the item really rare, or super expensive or something like that.

    One thing to keep in mind when writing fan fiction is that things like stats aren't quite as big of a deal. With the absence of a "level" system, stats really don't exist, so don't worry about that so much. That said, there isn't anything wrong with making a "weaker" Pokemon powerful within a fan fiction setting, so long as you explain it. Obviously something like having a Pikachu beating Mewtwo in a straight fight is not a good idea, but looking at what you wrote, as long as you didn't go completely nuts, it probably is alright.

    Don't see any problem with that. Even in the games Pokemon from various regions can be found outside of their native region, so that even has some "canonical" precedent.
  3. Negrek

    Negrek Lost but Seeking

    It's very hard to judge whether something is "Sueish" in a vacuum. Traits themselves aren't Sueish things; it's how they change the character's interaction with the world that matters. The fact that you're apparently really desperate for your character catch a beldum despite it making no sense given the setting you've chosen for the story is a bad sign, but the beldum in and of itself isn't Sueish one way or the other.


    a) Yes, it's cliché. Doesn't mean it's not fine as long as you handle it well. Item-based translations are popular, and most people probably won't bat an eye.

    b) I'm not sure to what degree I would expect martial arts training to actually help a pokémon in battle, but there's nothing wrong with a weak pokémon undergoing special training to make it stronger than the norm for its species, so long as it stays within reason.

    c) Nope. If you're really that desperate for him to have those specific pokémon, there are a multitude of ways to have him get them without magically porting them to an inappropriate region. Consider having him catch something else and then trade for what he wants, or buy from a breeder, etc.
    Dragonfree likes this.
  4. TheBlackDuelist

    TheBlackDuelist Well-Known Member

    Phew, I thought that I would get bombarded with comments like "That's so sue, omg!" or something along those lines. Forgive me for thinking like this. Back on the topic, yea I see what you mean with the levels. The anime seems to stay away from those and have had Pokemon who were deemed weak as strong individuals. Great, I'm glad to know that I wasn't being completely unreasonable.

    It's very hard to judge whether something is "Sueish" in a vacuum. Traits themselves aren't Sueish things; it's how they change the character's interaction with the world that matters. The fact that you're apparently really desperate for your character catch a beldum despite it making no sense given the setting you've chosen for the story is a bad sign, but the beldum in and of itself isn't Sueish one way or the other.


    Ok, so some cliche's can actually make a story better. I see...I see.

    Lol, I thought that as well. The martial arts is actually in itself a weak point as the main character's movepool is quite weak, however it is from his intensive training that he is able to use pull off a "special" move.

    I wouldn't call it deperate like I NEED HIM, I just think the way the form looks and it's move pool fits, it perfectly goes with my protagonists' ideas. Beldum isn

    Thanks for your responses guys, any more input would be appreciated
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
  5. Negrek

    Negrek Lost but Seeking

    Looks like you lost your train of thought, there. In any case, it's a fairly simple assessment: is the beldum important enough to you that you're willing to have your character go through the trouble necessary to get ahold of one, or is it something you'll just have to deal with not getting to include. The Sueish thing is deciding you want something for your character and then giving it to them even when it makes no in-world sense, i.e. "Oh look, now there are beldum on Route 210!"
  6. TheBlackDuelist

    TheBlackDuelist Well-Known Member

    I see your point.....Ok, so getting a Pokemon from trading sounds actually like a pretty sweet idea. I actually worked a way around with it and it turns out that it's pretty much the same outcome with my character lol. Thanks Negrek :)
  7. I understand almost all of your points from above, but the one thing I don't get is the issue with off-regioners. Also I feel like I should stop calling them off-regioners but that's neither here nor there.

    I've seen many succesful, award-winning above average fics that many people enjoyed with off-region Pokemon, especially many of the original Unova fics. Plus are we forgetting that you actually CAN get Beldum in Sinnoh, so it doesn't really qualify as off-region, just hard to come by [(Swarm within the Battle Zone island,) but hey, the battle zone could be where the Author gets his special martial arts training from]

    Back on topic, What I'm saying is that the purpose of AU/Fics is that they are fiction, so personally, and I know hope many people agree with me, Off-region Pokemon are a non-issue in most cases, with an explanation preferred but not completely necessary

    Edit: Replying to the below as it doesn't dignify a whole new Post: Ooooooh, Honestly I believed that the key issue was with Off-region Pokemon, 'tis what I get for skimming. *Bows Down to the great JX*
    Double edit: saw a mysterious red notification, changing above generalization
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
  8. JX Valentine

    JX Valentine Ever-Discordant

    Pretty sure the point is less about whether or not Beldum is off-region and more about the fact that it's the preevolution of a pseudo-legendary that the protagonist would just happen to find on a low-leveled route normally inhabited by certain Pokémon for a reason (be it climate or just the fact that it's not a mountainous part of Sinnoh, whereas Beldum tend to keep to mountainous areas).

    Tl;dr, there's nothing wrong with having Gen A Pokémon show up in Gen B's region. There's plenty wrong with having Gen A's special Pokémon show up in Gen B's region for no other reason than "I want my character to have a sparkly special Pokémon." That's why you have to be careful with what you choose to do in a fanfic. Sure, it's fanfic, but that doesn't necessarily mean you can do whatever you want. The point of writing is to present a story that a reader can buy. If you violate canon for no apparent reason other than to make your character look special, then that's not going to be something a reader can swallow easily. Your character becomes less and less like a developed, deep character and more an object that's clearly born from your own wish-fulfillment. There's nothing wrong with writing fic that's exclusively wish-fulfilling, of course, but in that case, why show it to a reader if it's just for you?

    If it helps, a reminder: Mary Sue is a term that refers to a character who messes with canon and logic just because. So yes, a reasonable explanation for having something like Beldum show up on Route 201 would be needed (in order to avoid shaky to mediocre writing and characterization, anyway). But if you can avoid producing a character around whom the universe bends for no apparent reason, you can avoid a Sue. And that's what Negrek means by "don't give your character Pokémon just because"—because doing so would be producing that universe-bending-for-no-apparent-reason character.

    Hope that makes sense.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
    Dragonfree likes this.
  9. TheBlackDuelist

    TheBlackDuelist Well-Known Member

    Yea that definitely makes sense, look at you JX always coming to my rescue. :)

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