Islam And the Law Of Non Contradiction.

[NINJA PENGUIN]

After studying philopsophy and theology, heres one law the True Religion must observe for it to remain truth.

The Law Of Non Contradiction: If ANY doctrine, teaching or scripture is contradictiory to another in the religion, the religion is false.

Ok well following my theolgical studies, heres two Al Qu'ranic scriptures.



9:5 "When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful."

and

Qur'an 2:256 "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

(Emphasis Added)

Now are these contradictory, or can both be used in Islam in a non contradictory manner?

Debate.

 

[Kazekage]

You can find things like this in EVERY religion.

Hell even Science has some contradictions.

 

[J.T.]

If one contradiction was enough to completely disprove a religion, pretty much every well-known, well-established religion would be disproven. Yes, even Christianity.

Thing is, I don't think one contradiction is enough.

 

[Vermehlo_Steele]

It's highly easy to take a single line or two and then sensationalize them. That's what extremists and Islamamists do. This proves nothing.

 

[Mr. Mudkip]

The Islamic god isn't forgiving or merciful in the first place.

 

[Tim the turtle]

The Law Of Non Contradiction: If ANY doctrine, teaching or scripture is contradictiory to another in the religion, the religion is false.

Whilst this is technically true I think you are missing the point somewhat. If there is a contradiction in scripture then the religion is false only to the extent that the contradiction obtains. So all that would be needed is a change in the use of, or interpetation of, scripture to elliminate the contradiction and the religion could go on functioning perfectly fine. It would be a different religion, of course, but only very slightly.

 

[Profesco]

To add to what Tim said, you also have to consider humanity's inherent resistance to changing their ideology. Belief perseverance, the actual technical term. People go to great lengths to assimilate contradictory information into their pre-existing belief systems. It may not matter how many facts - scientific, philosophical, or plainly logical - fly directly into the face of a belief; people will find a way to rationalize.

 

[GhostAnime]

Hell even Science has some contradictions.

What do you mean by this? Past ones or.. ones that are actually established fairly well?

 

[Vermehlo_Steele]

The only contradiction in science is a 'doublespeak' one of believing 100% in all facts discovered whilst keeping mind that everything, even facts and data, can be wrong and open to change and even being disregarded.

ie One believes in the Law of Evolution, but keeps in mind that it could be wrong based on some future discovery.

 

[Hammerheart]

I think you have to take into account interpretation. Obviously they have been translated, so meaning gets lost in translation. (If you read the Qur'an in any other language than Arabic its considered not the quran, as the quran was the words of god, and by translating them, they are not the words of god.) If they are in the Qur'an, which is said to be the direct recitation of the word of god, which was written down pretty much straight away, (as apose to the bible which was recorded years later, in a difforent language) you have to look at the occasion of revelation. Basically which came latest is considered the right one. Alcohol is an interesting one, as there are 3 different messages about alcohol. But its said Allah's view on alcohol changes with circumstance, and so Muhammad received another prophecy, which gets recorded in the Qur'an and is therefore the most recent revelation on the matter, and the one considered to be the current word of god.

Believe it or not, you have to admit, they have their bases covered well in Islam

 

[Vermehlo_Steele]

Indeed Hammerheart, thank you for reaffriming what I said earlier. Anyway, I've always found it to be a bit arrogant that if you translate soemthing the meaning is completely different. Different words, but the concept is ultimately the same, da?

 

[GhostAnime]

ie One believes in the Law of Evolution, but keeps in mind that it could be wrong based on some future discovery.

.. It is not a law!

The only contradiction in science is a 'doublespeak' one of believing 100% in all facts discovered whilst keeping mind that everything, even facts and data, can be wrong and open to change and even being disregarded.

Then this wouldn't be a contradiction because most things in science aren't laws.

 

[Hammerheart]

Indeed Hammerheart, thank you for reaffriming what I said earlier. Anyway, I've always found it to be a bit arrogant that if you translate soemthing the meaning is completely different. Different words, but the concept is ultimately the same, da?

Not necessarily. Think how many words have a lot of other words that mean similar things, and how many of those words will have different meanings dependant on context. Also take into account semantic changes, words meaning different things over the years. Think how much one miss interpreted word could change a sentence?

for example the lords prayer, take the line And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us (or some variant on that), now seeking forgiveness for going on someone else's property without permission seems a bit of an odd thing to pray for if you ask me. Chances are it will have meant something different when first translated, and in turn meant something slightly different in its original language.

Granted its not the best example, as like you say, you get the overall concept of it. But there will be times when its not the case.

 

[GhostAnime]

Basically religion is just a big mystery we'll never understand completely even if we tried.

 

[TheFightingPikachu]

Contradiction Not the Only Problem

After studying philopsophy and theology, heres one law the True Religion must observe for it to remain truth.

The Law Of Non Contradiction: If ANY doctrine, teaching or scripture is contradictiory to another in the religion, the religion is false.

Honestly, I tend to give alleged contradictions the benefit of the doubt in such cases. Mostly this is because people claim all day long that the bible is full of contradictions most often without finding out if there might be a way to reconcile them. I certainly won't claim that any alleged contradiction can't matter, but we should ask: In what way would this possible contradiction affect the teachings of this book?

9:5 "When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful."

I think the bigger issue here is actually simply the fact that this verse recommends lying in ambush for people who have not committed any evil. If it simply allowed execution of people who didn't believe, then it would be debatable, but as it stands, it can in no way be described as virtuous. I don't want to indicate that all Muslims are extremists, but...dare I say it? Muhammed was the first Muslim extremist.

Islam was spread by the sword in the first several hundred years because Muhammed was not a true prophet of God. He needed the sword because he promoted a blind faith.

He claimed to be a prophet of God, but he spoke against prior claim that Jesus didn't die (despite the fact that Muhammed was decidedly not an eyewitness of events that took place several hundred years before he was alive), and then had the audacity to say that it only appeared that Jesus died. Yet he still claimed Jesus was a prophet even though he refused to believe that Jesus spoke many of the things the New Testament had to say.

In short, these are some of the biggest problems with Islam. (Well, kinda short, anyway.)

 

[MrPostman]

Honestly, I tend to give alleged contradictions the benefit of the doubt in such cases. Mostly this is because people claim all day long that the bible is full of contradictions most often without finding out if there might be a way to reconcile them. I certainly won't claim that any alleged contradiction can't matter, but we should ask: In what way would this possible contradiction affect the teachings of this book?

I think the bigger issue here is actually simply the fact that this verse recommends lying in ambush for people who have not committed any evil. If it simply allowed execution of people who didn't believe, then it would be debatable, but as it stands, it can in no way be described as virtuous. I don't want to indicate that all Muslims are extremists, but...dare I say it? Muhammed was the first Muslim extremist.

Islam was spread by the sword in the first several hundred years because Muhammed was not a true prophet of God. He needed the sword because he promoted a blind faith.

He claimed to be a prophet of God, but he spoke against prior claim that Jesus didn't die (despite the fact that Muhammed was decidedly not an eyewitness of events that took place several hundred years before he was alive), and then had the audacity to say that it only appeared that Jesus died. Yet he still claimed Jesus was a prophet even though he refused to believe that Jesus spoke many of the things the New Testament had to say.

In short, these are some of the biggest problems with Islam. (Well, kinda short, anyway.)

Contradictions (and generally being wrong even when it is consistent) mean a book isn't some divine revelation.

Since you mentioned the bible and all.

There has never been a true prophet. And fun fact: The sword was used to spread christianity too.

 

[GhostAnime]

I find it funny for a Christian to point out contradictions in Islam while earlier in the post saying some can be reconciled.

 

[Erienne]

Contradictions can be settled easily, ever heard of the documentary hypothesis? In brief, the Old Testament (and obviously the New Testament as well) were written by different people with different ideas. As such, any contradictions were either from different viewpoints or mistakes by the editor.

 

[GhostAnime]

That doesn't really make the religion anymore validated you know.

 

[Erienne]

That doesn't really make the religion anymore validated you know.

It doesn't validate it, since like if you're really religious, then you tend to believe that God or some deity, whatever you prefer, wrote the Bible. If you believe man wrote it, the documentary hypothesis sorta invalidates it, in a way.