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Islamophobia and McCarthyism

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Silver Soul, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. CSolarstorm

    CSolarstorm New spicy version

    That sounds like you're apologizing for the zealot. The zealot is clearly the agressor, wheras no matter how provocative someone is they're in their rights to say what they want. Hate to overuse the rape analogy, but being provocative, even stupidly so, does not mean a person is at fault in remotely the same way as the one attacking is. Honestly, I don't understand how some Muslims in the Middle East can sustain a sense of entitlement where if anyone anywhere in the world says something they don't like, they believe they have the right to call for their death.

    At this point though, I really think this is a diversion to something else going on the Middle East. It's pretty obvious since the Arab Spring that outside forces are playing all these religious, political, and social groups for fools and we're not hearing the majority of what's going on.
  2. Silver Soul

    Silver Soul Well-Known Member

  3. 7 tyranitars

    7 tyranitars Well-Known Member

  4. Ipwnyou

    Ipwnyou Well-Known Member

    That's the type of world we live in.

    Just a few months ago, people were upset about Obama's failure to participate in the slaughter of dissenters as actively as he usually does, and people failed to see how ridiculous that expectation was. Now when that same absurd hatred of free-speech is turned around, we can see how ridiculous it is.

    People want to say whatever they want, but they don't want everyone else to have that same right.
  5. Leonhardt

    Leonhardt Kaiser

    Which is the great hypocrisy surrounding the idea of unlimited free speech.

    While I feel that McCarthyism has seen a resurgence, it has not been in the practical sense of Kangaroo Courts and accusations but, rather, in the attitude of Americans since 9/11. The amount of suspicion and slander being thrown at Muslims living in the USA is comparable to the attacks on suspected Reds back in the days of McCarthy.

    My own grandfather was himself a target of the trials back in the 50s and left Boston, his home since leaving the German Democratic Republic, for Nova Scotia in Canada because of the treatment he recieved for being both an immigrant and a union man.

    Muslims today are getting the same treatment simply because they are both a visible minority and the United States is at war with an organization that claims Islam is their religion.
  6. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    Honestly I have to disagree, the media in and of itself bends over backwards to portray muslims in a positive light, and try not to associate muslims with acts of terror. There was even fretting over the fact that it was a Muslim that committed the Fort Hood attacks as opposed to a simple Christian White Guy. Last time I checked there wasn't much if any of the same media treatment of Communists in the 50s.
  7. What's unlimited free speech? Honestly. I've not seen it advocated anywhere. Any sane person sees that freedom of speech has limitations, it is not an absolute.

    Oh spare me. How would you, seeing as your own sig says you live in Canada? I bet if you gave the vast majority of muslims in the world the choice between their current state and living in America there would be only one winner.

    Pretty irrelevant really though isn't it?

    It's not so much that they claim Islam as their religion inasmuch as they want to use Islam as a tool of violence.
  8. Leonhardt

    Leonhardt Kaiser

    The US Bill of Rights allows for an almost unchallenged right to say whatever you want to say whether or not it is deemed racist, hateful or in many cases untrue.

    I lived just outside of Charleston, South Carolina from 2009 to 2011. I saw that there was a pretty clear element of mistrust and sometimes outright racism towards Muslims in general where I was living.

    I never said that Muslims hated living in the United States. I just remarked on the hostility and suspicion towards them that I observed during my time in the USA.

    Perhaps but I am just relating an anecdote from a family member about how the two situations are similar. A good friend of mine also moved from Tenesee to Canada because of the way his family felt they were being treated.

    Poor choice of words on my part. Your statement is the correct one.

    Not talking about the mainstream media outlets. I was discussing the attitude of many US citizens that I met and incidents that did occur (though they were probably sensationalized). Remember that Delta Airways fiasco?
  9. Yes. Good. That's not unlimited free speech.

    Ah right so because you saw some occasional racism and picked up on "mistrust" (which is a pretty open term) in one city in America over a two year period this must mean that America hates muslims.

    How is one racist towards a muslim?

    I reckon most of them get on fine.

    Great. Still irrelevant.
  10. ccangelopearl1362

    ccangelopearl1362 Well-Known Member

    Fox News Channel: Changing Intelligence on Libya Attack Turns Focus Back to Anti-Islam Film, Source Says
    Reuters: West’s free speech stand bars blasphemy ban

    So much for Islamophobia accusations. If President Barack Obama and/or his subordinates truly have the bright idea to favor breaking away from defending free speech, then a few telephone conversations or teleconferences with Organization for Islamic Cooperation Secretary-General Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu could very well dissuade them further. While the American consulate in Benghazi was under siege from any Al-Qaeda-linked terrorists gathering to attack it, other American intelligence agents were focused on… Innocence of Muslims. I would imagine that if both factors were present at the same time, in the sense that the terrorists really were planning to attack the consulate anyway, then they must have figured that any mobs that happened to be rioting nearby would provide the perfect cover for their assault. Remarkably, general bans on free speech appear to have exhausted my favorite Islamic intergovernmental organization precisely because the United States and European and Latin American countries decided to uphold that idea and thereby stand against such mobs, no matter where they might explode. I can only wonder what those delegations will opine once a certain movie about a certain raid to kill a certain particularly infamous terrorist mastermind gets the final green light from National Geographic Channel.:

    New York Post: NatGeo TV on terror alert

    SEAL Team Six: The Raid on Osama bin Laden has been scheduled for November 4, the Sunday before the 2012 presidential election, if I’m not mistaken. An avalanche of “phone calls and blog posts” against NGC has come to their attention, and – perhaps justifiably – they’re putting whatever security protocols they might already have in motion. Assuming that these terrorists include Innocence of Muslims in their supposed grievances, well, that would just tell me that they’re willing to cite anything as an example of the United States’ infernal schemes of dominance and oppression. At any rate, NatGeo’s employees are “big believers in the First Amendment”, so neither Obama nor Ihsanoglu can count on support from them. Recollection worldwide could remain just as important for other parts of Islam.:

    Center for Islamic Pluralism: Stephen Schwartz: The Legacy of September 11, 2001

    As Stephen Schwartz wrote, he spent the 11th anniversary of those airplane jihad attacks meditating on their significance in this period of time, between the Wahhabi stranglehold in Saudi Arabia and the upheavals in Syria and across the rest of the Middle East. Academics throughout the West ignored the convulsions befalling communities infiltrated by Wahhabi operatives, whether out of intimidation or financial inducements. Mr. Schwartz, as he has over the years, devoted particular attention to the Balkans and other hotspots that the Islamists have only just begun to target, such as Africa, Turkestan, and Burma, no doubt encouraging other Muslims to reject all this violence. If certain trends that have even the various factions within Islam quaking in their shoes continue to hold up, then there were never any viable options to these Islamic upheavals from the start.:

    Middle East Forum: David Goldman: Islamic Civilization is Dying

    Muslim countries have acquired demographic rates similar to Europe and Russia in a shorter amount of time, precisely because their populations don’t believe that their traditions will survive any encounter with modernity, no matter how trivial any such encounter might be. My two favorite Muslim countries, Turkey and Iran, are the two countries with the biggest declines, with Iranian women going from 7 children to 1.5 children on average and Turks gaining the same current rate, all while the Kurds have a burgeoning population. Mr. Goldman’s accompanying book, How Civilizations Die, pinpointed Egypt and Tunisia, the two countries I’ve come to associate most with the so-called “Arab Spring”, as the countries most likely to experience economic failure first, such that they’ll be facing what he calls a “train wreck” in the coming years and decades. While Tunisia went below 2 children as a fertility rate earlier this century, Egypt’s military dictatorship kept its people “rural, illiterate, and powerless”, with the ultimate effect of demoralizing them in the face of modernity in the 21st century. The Islamic supremacists sensed this and have been escalating their attacks against the United States and its allies, which makes everything I ever saw of their activities, going all the way back to 9/11 itself and perhaps even beyond it, look less like efforts to take over the world and more like efforts to take down as many people as possible before modernization sweeps Islamic traditions away for good. To put it in a different way, world domination isn’t just the Islamic supremacists’ goal, but their only option left for preserving their society, if they can. For my part, this development, which got my attention about this time last year, torpedoed any faith I once had that Islam and those two aforementioned other major cultures would fit into a global system that favors freedom and individuality and thus survive the 21st century… and necessitated, at least to my mind, a search for a new global standard for humankind. The six virtues that I ended up finding had sources beyond anything I ever imagined, and I have focused my attention there ever since. As for free speech, well, should Mitt Romney win the Oval Office this November, and he or the Tea Partiers begin to realize just how dire the situation truly is, then they might as well do everything they can to prevent it from becoming a casualty of the Islamic implosions unfolding worldwide, making the concept of Islamophobia meaningless.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012

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