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Israel Attacks Gaza - At Least 170 Killed

Your first sentence above just made me sick. This really shows how much you (and Israel) care (which is absolutely none) about the civilian suffering and dying in Gaza. This also rejects Israel's claim of "minimizing civilin deaths". Further more than it was a United Nation's aid truck, and United Nations is trying to help the needy in the region and form peace. Blowing a UN truck is just an announcement from Israel that "We don't want peace". If Israel wanted to make sure that Hamas doen't get their hands on supplies, they would've either sent a group of soldiers with the truck to make sure it reaches it destination safely and is distributed among the needy people, or through any other means.

What Biglutz meant was that Israel is doing all it can to minimalize civilian casualties but the fact that it is a war zone makes that job difficult and that mistakes will enevitably made in such a situation.

Also to say that Israel did this on purpose is really deluded. It was unfortunate that this happened but mistakes like this will often happen in a war zone and it is naive to believe otherwise. Secondly if Israel wanted to show it didn't want peace then they wouldn't have attacked one truck. They would stop all support from the UN and they certainly wouldn't have waited a week of being bombed to do something about it.
 

BigLutz

Banned
Alright its the weekend, time to see what Chimkong posted for a good laugh.

Chimkong said:
Your first sentence above just made me sick.

Now you know how I feel when I read your posts.

Chimkong said:
This really shows how much you (and Israel) care (which is absolutely none) about the civilian suffering and dying in Gaza.

Wow two sentences in and you COMPLETELY misread my post. The Humanitarian Situation was already bad there even with shipments because Hamas was stopping the shipments of aid, they were keeping them from getting to the people.

Chimkong said:
This also rejects Israel's claim of "minimizing civilin deaths".

Listen if Israel didn't care about minimizing civilian deaths, they never would have dropped leaflets telling civilians to get out. They never would have let civilians with pass ports leave. Hell they wouldn't even allow aid in, in the first place. Even more if they really didn't care about civilian deaths they would fire bomb the whole place.

Chimkong said:
Further more than it was a United Nation's aid truck, and United Nations is trying to help the needy in the region and form peace. Blowing a UN truck is just an announcement from Israel that "We don't want peace".

One incident happens, in a warzone no less, and you are already saying it is a declaration. Seriously get out now, leave this topic and do not come back. Because if you cannot understand that in war accidents happen, that rockets misfire or miss their target or some one misfires. Then you are beyond help.

Chimkong said:
If Israel wanted to make sure that Hamas doen't get their hands on supplies, they would've either sent a group of soldiers with the truck to make sure it reaches it destination safely and is distributed among the needy people, or through any other means.

If Israel wanted to make sure that Hamas didn't get the supplies they would never have allowed it in, in the first place.

Chimkong said:
First and most importantly, as I mentioned earlier, you can't justify Israel's wrong actions just by saying that, "Other side is doing that too". Learn how to take responsibility of your own actions, instead of blaming others; and let others wrong actions in their own hands.

My God I wasn't justifying anything. I mean do you even read this crap before you post it? I was asking for consistency if he would agree that Hamas is also a bigger perpetrator of war crimes in this.

Chimkong said:
Are you serious?

Very much so, considering the urban warfare going on in there, and Hamas' use of Human shields, the death toll could be ALOT higher.

Chimkong said:
Israel's saying isn't the saying of God, ok?

Never said it was, but with your poor reading skills I bet you thought i did.

Chimkong said:
Have you ever watched what is happening to them in their refugee camps? How many of them are dying?

Its war, its a sad thing.

Chimkong said:
Sure, you will now blame Hamas for 'hijacking' the supplies. But if Israel is sympatethic with the civilians, can't they provide aid to the civilians. Cant they?

Problem becomes actually getting aid to the civilians, the minute a heavy Israeli presence goes into a area to pass out aid, they become a very large target for Hamas, as does the amount of civilians around them. Wait, I thought you cared about the civilians?

Chimkong said:
Are you serious when you are saying that. If you review the demographics shown by Pirate555, there are million of people living in this small region.

Something I have said in my post, yet you continue to not read it.

Chimkong said:
So only one Israeli attack on the civilians may take out about the same amount Hamas 'supposedly' kills in Israel, if not more.

A proportional response isn't about killing the same amount of civilians, it is about launching the same proportion of force back. Trying to take out the same number killed isn't proportionality it is just vengence.

Chimkong said:
But still, if they do it, then their 'minimizing the casualities' claim will be widely exposed to the world as a false claim.

Oh but they won't, they could easily do that and probably save alot of IDF lives but they wont. Only one side in this situation launches rockets indiscriminately at civilian locations with no military value.

pirate555 said:
Yes, the school may have been used to this effect before, and so such an explanation could be automatically assumed. However, the reports of Israel changing their explanation from such an accusation for this attack can be found here. I wouldn't expect a Government in this situation to claim something different, but it does somewhat weaken the credibility of Israeli Government sources.

Because of Chimkong's annoyingness I am cutting down my replies to just that which is relevent to Israel since I don't have the time or energy to go through everything and I don't want a huge post.

You're going to find alot of people saying different things due to the confusion of reports provided. Problem is that your article does not refute the facts that

A: It was a place already heavily used by Hamas.

B: Hamas Militants were seen firing rockets before the mortar hit.

C: Two Hamas militants were found among the dead at the school.

The last two really are smoking gun evidence of what happened. You have two Hamas Militants dead, and you have the witnesses. Case Closed.

pirate555 said:
Currently the reports are unproven either way, though this source ( ref. ) shows both sides of the argument, which I suppose is therefore the most acceptable seeing as there’s been no thorough investigation to find the real cause.

Right now just like you I am waiting for either "Smoking Gun Evidence" such as the dead bodies and witnesses like at the UN School, or a full investigation to happen. Which is why I ended my quote from Israel with "If this is true"

pirate555 said:
Unless Hamas is well and truly obliterated in these events, the experience will only bolster Palestinian support for the extremist Government, who have long been ‘waving the flag’ of steadfastness and national spirit in the face of International restrictions and actions.

It will for a few weeks, maybe a month or so, but a few months down the road it will probably turn the public against Hamas for the attacks and the suffering. As has happened before.

pirate555 said:
I am horrified that Hamas hasn’t placed its civilians’ welfare as its highest priority,

Its horrifying if you do not understand Hamas. These guys do not care about Palestinians or what life is in Gaza, they care about killing Israelis. If they cared anything about Palestinians they wouldn't be digging up water pipes used to transport water to Palestinian neighborhoods to use as rockets so that they can shoot at the Israeli Power Plant that provides power into Gaza. Hamas' lack of well humanity and the hell that it has brought upon Palestine really will do them in, in the end.

pirate555 said:
but whilst in short-term violence towards Israel in the form of these rockets can be stopped to the great extent by Israel’s offensive, Hamas is proceeding to win the hearts and minds of its people by portraying the situation as one where the small province of Gaza is under attack from the rest of the world, directly or indirectly.

Problem is while that may work while still in the energy of a war, in which emotions are abundant and logical thought is no where to be seen. It wont go on forever, eventually Israel will pull out, Hamas will be in control with almost no offensive capabilities and probably UN observers. And the emotions will begin to die down for the Palestinians and they will begin to look at Hamas for starting this.
 
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DarkRidley

Deals and Issues
Ceasefire. Article from the BBC news website.

Still not sure of my opinion on this. This war is never-ending.

Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert says:

"We feel the pain of every Palestinian child and family member who fell victim to the cruel reality created by Hamas"
But the article also says:

Nearly 1,200 Palestinians have been killed since the violence began on 27 December. Thirteen Israelis have died.
They can't all be Hamas, and it seems kind of hypocritical of Israel to claim that they're worried for the Palestinians when they've done this, especially seeing as only thirteen of their own people died.

Meh. I don't neither Hamas nor Israel are justified in their actions, to be honest. At least it's over for now.
 

BigLutz

Banned
They can't all be Hamas, and it seems kind of hypocritical of Israel to claim that they're worried for the Palestinians when they've done this, especially seeing as only thirteen of their own people died.

Of course not, it's a war zone inside of a major city of course there will be casualties. Of course it doesn't help that Hamas also heavily relies on human shields.

And yeah I would think Israel is worried about the Palestinians, anybody would. But you cannot allow that worry override your judgement and the need to take out Hamas' military capability.

As for the death toll, war is never about evening out death tolls, its insane to even think a Army would go in only to kill as many on the enemy's side as has been killed on their side.
 
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