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It’s been years since BW, do you still feel the same way about it?

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Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
I look back at this creation of mankind and despite its obvious flaws, it did have some decent characters like Cilan and Stephan.

Chemistry? Ash and Iris' bickering was annoying but hey at least there's that unlike XY's group (and to a lesser extent SM). This explains it all perfectly minus the last part!
I always considered Iris and Ash to have the most “sibling-ist” relationship in the anime but agreed, their arguing got old fast...especially Iris initiating most of it. Granted I would like to see some conflict in the SM group, I can happily say the glorification of Ash has left
 

Kintaro

Banned
I don't know why people forget Ash did plenty of bickering with May and Dawn (or vice versa), and act like Iris is the only time they brought it back since Misty. In fact I'm pretty sure Ash/May did the second most amount of bickering after Ash/Misty due to Ash being impatient in that series and not being used to his companion having their own goal. Likewise Dawn talked back to Ash a lot and didn't let him speak over her. This fandom tends to simplify each female companion into one particular trait, so they remember Misty for bickering and May and then Dawn for being girly...or nice? When of course that's not the way the characters acted in every episode. I remember seeing someone say May worshipped Ash like Serena...and I'm like...wtf? Either people don't remember the old eps very well or people have a very poor interpertation of characters.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
I don't know why people forget Ash did plenty of bickering with May and Dawn (or vice versa), and act like Iris is the only time they brought it back since Misty. In fact I'm pretty sure Ash/May did the second most amount of bickering after Ash/Misty due to Ash being impatient in that series and not being used to his companion having their own goal. Likewise Dawn talked back to Ash a lot and didn't let him speak over her. This fandom tends to simplify each female companion into one particular trait, so they remember Misty for bickering and May and then Dawn for being girly...or nice? When of course that's not the way the characters acted in every episode. I remember seeing someone say May worshipped Ash like Serena...and I'm like...wtf? Either people don't remember the old eps very well or people have a very poor interpertation of characters.
Hell even Serena call him out on his bs ......Yeah I'm sure most pokégirls call him out lots more then most boys characters do.
 

AznKei

Dawn & Chloe by ddangbi
Hell even Serena call him out on his bs ......Yeah I'm sure most pokégirls call him out lots more then most boys characters do.
Do you mean the scene where Serena threw some snowballs at Ash, and expects him to become a badass again by saying "That's not the Ash I know!"? I don't think the other Pokegirls call him out because he isn't at his badass self...
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
Do you mean the scene where Serena threw some snowballs at Ash, and expects him to become a badass again by saying "That's not the Ash I know!"? I don't think the other Pokegirls call him out because he isn't at his badass self...
Well no but he still not act himself when he should be. And you know what i mean by that right ?
 
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Dephender

Gizakawayusu
Staff member
Moderator
Why was Virgil a thing? You had "Eevee promotion, the character", and you did nothing with him. He didn't even have a Sylveon, the new Pokemon at the time. Why?

Bit late, but he didn't have it because it didn't exist. Virgil was introduced during a rather extensive Eievui marketing campaign than ran for a good number of months and eventually culminated in the announcement of the "Pikachu and its Eievui Friends" halfway into the league. Nymphia was revealed a couple months later as a new Pokemon appearing in this short, but that was after Virgil had left the show.

But yeah, him being a walking ad for that specific evolutionary line made a lot of sense at the time. He didn't exist in a vacuum.
 

Champion Jared 14

Well-Known Member
I remember one episode, the fighting between Ash and Iris got so bad that it seemed like one of those older episodes where TRio decided to part ways. Their Pokémon got involved and basically imparted to them that they’re friends and need to hash things out. I don’t remember any group conflict ever getting that severe, to that point. A little pushback is fine. I’m always intrigued by trainers or people in the show who weren’t so easily impressed by Ash, or hung on his every word. Had some interesting ideas, sketchy execution. I haven’t seen all of it..,
 

raichu27

Well-Known Member
Yes, the way Ash lost to Cameron was really disappointing, especially since Cameron had 5 Pokemon with him. Plus, I think Ash should've use Snivy or Pikachu instead of Tepig against his Samurott.
The way Dawn and Ash didn't high-five each other before she left was also disappointing.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Yeah. I still feel the same way about it. A weaker saga to be sure, but restored my faith in the anime after the nightmare that was DP.

Although, I don't really care for ulta-serious TRio that they went for at the beginning.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
In this thread by @Ignition I summed up my feelings about BW quite well. And yes, I do still feel the same way about it. Even though it's my least favorite saga, because I like Pokémon so much I like it much much more than most things from most other shows. Here are the 16 things I listed off in that thread as things I like about BW even though it's my least favorite saga:

BW:
1. It's evaluation time!
2. Cilan was a breath of fresh air after Brock had become stale. I liked the episodes where they were like bros like the double battle episode.
3. Episode N
4. how Da! had a lot of callbacks to the past
5. Alexa debuting and debuting Gen VI Pokémon. It was nice to see after I thought they had stopped that tradition in the DP-BW transition.
6. Competent TR - Giovanni actually showing up in Unova and battling Ash - being the main villain arc for once
7. the Meowth arc
8. the origin of the Dunsparce meme
9. The Team Plasma arc having a 6-part finale, still the most episodes in a villain finale
10. all the tournament arcs
11. All main characters actually being active battlers (largely because of the tournament arcs)
12. Ash having a female rival for once
13. the Bianca gag where she got Ash wet
14. all main characters having rivals for once
15. Dawn and Cynthia returning
16. TR stopping appearing in every episode

Don George's training facility was a wasted opportunity, with one exception (when Ash was training for a Gym rematch against Lenora), Don George's training facilities were completely wasted only really being used for tournament arcs, I honestly would've preferred seeing Ash train in anyone of them over seeing over 100+ episodes of filler.

Yup i agree. But it was used one other time you forgot about in Astilbe town when he had a double battle with Tepig and Snivy against Emboar and Heatmor who were owned by Tepig's original trainer.

Trip is a lame, watered-down version of Paul. I hate how they threw away all of his Pokemon that weren't Serperior. Frillish and Vanillite? Never seen after their first appearance. Tranquill? Showed up twice and then never again. Timburr? All it did was lose.

Don't forget about Lampent!

How many times did Georgia and Iris fight again? Not counting Georgia's debut episode.

just once, at the WTJC, which Iris won only due to Dragonite's disobedience smh

I shouldn't have gotten my hopes up with Bianca. "A female Rival for Ash? How cool! Can't wait to see her get a cool battle with Ash at the Lea-oh, she lost to Cameron?" - Me

Well I don't think this had much to do with her being a girl. It seems to be a recent trend that they pit secondary rivals against more main rivals to eliminate them early in leagues, presumably to supposedly hype up the winner of that battle even more: Barry, Trevor, and Tierno have all also lost this way.

Steven is the only good Rival in this show. Guy felt like an actual fleshed out character. Getting focus in the Clubspolosion helped. You did good a job, Stephanie.

You did good here.. I giggled.

He didn't even have a Sylveon, the new Pokemon at the time. Why?

Eevee evolving into Sylveon to beat Cameron's Hydreigon or Dino's Druddigon should have been exactly what happened.

And in a show about Ash trying to compete in a tournament, having three other tournaments just makes the League less exciting to wait for.

yeah and then the final battle with his "main" rival ended up being formatted like those other tournaments: 1v1!

Why was Ash's last Gym battle rushed? Why did he need the final Badge before Season 2 started? And for that matter, why did we need a Season 2? Nothing really changed outside of old Pokemon coming back to justify the name change.

yeah and not to mention, they oddly put NEXT TIME A NEW BEGINNING at the end of the Roxie gym battle, only to not even put next time a new beginning on the screen at the end of xy OR xyz.

What a thoughtless question! Ash need to govern Arizona of course he's needed! Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, Kalos, Alola, Galar it don't matter at all. Arizona is the highest priority!

Oh so ASH was the King of Arizona whom Esmé Gigi Genevieve Squalor, the city's sixth most important financial advisor, was going to meet! It all makes sense now

HA I still remember the lack of Ash/Trip interactions compared to his other rivals, that was just sad. Even in those tournaments every none Ash character defeated Trip oh man.

better than Gary

Bit late, but he didn't have it because it didn't exist. Virgil was introduced during a rather extensive Eievui marketing campaign than ran for a good number of months and eventually culminated in the announcement of the "Pikachu and its Eievui Friends" halfway into the league. Nymphia was revealed a couple months later as a new Pokemon appearing in this short, but that was after Virgil had left the show.

But yeah, him being a walking ad for that specific evolutionary line made a lot of sense at the time. He didn't exist in a vacuum.

yeah but what happened to the days of just debuting a Pokémon in the anime with no prior appearance in any media? Didn't Blaziken debut that way?
 

Dephender

Gizakawayusu
Staff member
Moderator
yeah but what happened to the days of just debuting a Pokémon in the anime with no prior appearance in any media? Didn't Blaziken debut that way?

No. Only Pokemon that ever debuted in the anime was Mega Lizardon X, back in Pokemon The Origin.
 

Dephender

Gizakawayusu
Staff member
Moderator
Ho-oh? Togepi?

Both were revealed long before they appeared in the anime. Togepi especially was prominently featured in movie 1 promotion, while it's capture episode aired just two weeks before the movie premiered.
 

Lionel_B

Well-Known Member
I was trying to defend the series because I was a 5G fan... Today... I'm disappointed because the series should have been excellent! Because it was based on Black & White games!

But Best Wishes is a series intended for the new public... And in this sense, it is successful... But... Black & White games deserved better...

That said... I like this series for some aspects. I find Cilan and Iris a thousand times more interesting and endearing than Serena and Clemont, the Don tournaments were a great idea and apart from Trip which we did not exploit the potential, the rivals were nice.
 

Friendshipper

Gotta Love 'Em All
My feelings about Best Wishes are still unclear. It's a tie between 'best wishes? ugh! it's ruined everything!' and 'best wishes? meh. it's fine I guess. but it could be much better, y'know.' and 'best wishes? I love best wishes! it's very enjoyable and has lots of fun stuff'.

Like, I really should dislike Best Wishes. It's a big disappointment season that has the potentials to be wonderful, it's when Ash's connection with his previous adventures began to become blurry, and it's a big mess of many small and not-so-small problems merged together. Heck, knowing me... I should hate Best Wishes.

But no, I'm very positive that I, still, have a soft spot for Best Wishes. I love some of the new introduced things we got from this season, I enjoy watching the various tournaments we got from this season, and I like almost all the new characters and rivals in this season. Ash isn't as bad as people assuming him to be, Iris and Cilan are NOT annoying at all, and I love this trio's relationship more than I do with some of Ash's other groups.

Eh, I think it's pretty much depends on my mood.
 
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Kintaro

Banned
Loved the Don battle tournaments, the secondary rivals, some of the Pokemon on the group were interesting, and I enjoyed Cilan. Iris was most interesting in her backstory eps, but her character wasn't handled that well after the early bits. The Plasma arc was ruined, the league was awful, the Declora Islands were pointless.

Still taken in a bubble BW had some enjoyable eps. It's just a lackluster arc overall when you compare it to everything else.
 

mysticalglacia

Alola Shill
BW was the first series I actively watched a little after it finished airing. I liked it then, but looking back it, all the criticism it gets is warranted. I thought the Don battle tournaments were a great addition to the show, and even though Iris and Cilan could get annoying incredibly fast, they weren’t bad imo. I can appreciate that at least they got dedicated episodes for their goals, a rarity now.

I didn’t mind Ash getting a soft reboot. I didn’t neccasarily like it, but he got better over the run. I hate how his team was handled though, and they completely screwed over the storyline. Everything was rushed and badly-written; a total disservice to the games. Don’t even get me started on N.

I find it amusing how the objective best game generations for plot handling (5 & 7) got the worst anime translations. Likewise, the worst gen story-wise (6) had the biggest anime improvement.
 
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