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It is Time for Litten to Set Off!! (964)

Mizz Nikki

Operations Director
I never said this is the only episode whose JP self pissed me off. It's just that this particular one's JP self went beyond simply doing that and brought out a desire for its blood.

Also, what about the other tracks I mentioned (the actual sad and emotional stuff)? That was the crux of my question. And mind you, I'm not angry about any of this; I'm only confused (you might be feeling the same about my feelings on this same episode).

The only sad song in this episode was the one when Ash, Pikachu, Rowlet, and Rockruff all stood by Litten and refused to leave until it ate something, that’s the only one I thought. The rest of the music, to me, just felt out of place and did not convey the feeling of sadness to me. That is what I am trying to say. I did not find any of them the least bit somber.
 

Ryu Taylor

Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
Honestly, the dub isn’t really that bad.
Indeed not. It's just that some people desperately want everyone to believe it is and worse. They tried to pull that on me, and, well, is it still not clear how spectacularly that backfired on them?

The dub music is decent but completely unremarkable. This isn't Burning Battlefield levels of amazing.
While that track you mentioned was just alright, it did come from when Miyazaki was at his prime, which even then he had no chance against the best of the dub's music (no matter the composer). That said, the JP music situation would be so much better and deserving to stay in the dub if Miyazaki would just stop sucking as badly as he's been since XY.

The dubbed version's choices of music for the sad scenes in this episode were fine since the tracks still invoked a melancholy feel fitting for [Litten]'s situation, although in some instances among certain fans it seems as if lately SM's dub soundtrack is often praised simply to spite the original score.
It's not possible to be more wrong. The SM dub score is praised because it's legitimately good music. Even if I liked Miyazaki's noise, I'd still be admitting to finding Goldfarb's music great. Of course, I'm not the only Goldfarb fan here (and I highly doubt they appreciate you generalizing them just now), though I might be the only one who hates the JP music (and again, whose fault is that?!).

The only sad song in this episode was the one when Ash, Pikachu, Rowlet, and Rockruff all stood by Litten and refused to leave until it ate something, that’s the only one I thought. The rest of the music, to me, just felt out of place and did not convey the feeling of sadness to me. That is what I am trying to say. I did not find any of them the least bit somber.
Fair enough. Obviously I found it all fitting. Though I do have a question about the JP music's supposed fittingness (last question on this matter for this episode, I promise): how is that screechy noise playing over the vigil scene's original JP self emotional? I mean, I can understand certain preferring other music choices (even the Snowbelle City theme's umpteenth reuse), but putting Meowth's Ballad over the vigil scene is an objectively terrible idea (though what can be expected from the dipshit who thought circus calliope music was perfect for the part of the First Movie where Mewtwo took everybody's Pokemon?) that just ****ed that scene and that episode up and insulted the emotion of what was going on.
 

Mizz Nikki

Operations Director
Fair enough. Obviously I found it all fitting. Though I do have a question about the JP music's supposed fittingness (last question on this matter for this episode, I promise): how is that screechy noise playing over the vigil scene's original JP self emotional? I mean, I can understand certain preferring other music choices (even the Snowbelle City theme's umpteenth reuse), but putting Meowth's Ballad over the vigil scene is an objectively terrible idea (though what can be expected from the dipshit who thought circus calliope music was perfect for the part of the First Movie where Mewtwo took everybody's Pokemon?) that just ****ed that scene and that episode up and insulted the emotion of what was going on.

Not gonna lie, Meowth’s ballad is awful, absolutely dreadful. It is one of the few endings I hated and always fast frwarded through. It is just a terrible song. So yeah, I have to give credit where credit is due. That is one of the few things the dub has done better than the actual sub.

But the rest of the music used was unfitting for the episode, imho.
 

Ignition

That damn smile
Still think this is the best episode of the SM series after all that has happened since this aired. Never feel so much pure emotion in the series.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan

Victorian Rush

Weather Manipulator
I might be the only one who hates the JP music (and again, whose fault is that?!).

You are, I have yet to meet anyone else who does not like the sub’s music, which is perfectly fine. My main issue with you is that you pretty much trashes the sub in every post. No one else is to blame for you not liking the subs music. They owe you nothing.

If you prefer the dub, that's find. I really could not care less. Is it necessary to insult the sub every chance you get?
 

Ryu Taylor

Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
You are, I have yet to meet anyone else who does not like the sub’s music, which is perfectly fine. My main issue with you is that you pretty much trashes the sub in every post.
One of the reasons I quit watching the JP version was to eliminate its ability to give me chances to rightfully pick on it. Obviously, that didn't work 100% perfectly as I still say things at its expense, but the lower frequency I do that nowadays means it worked at most 90%.

No one else is to blame for you not liking the subs music. They owe you nothing.
The thing is, fans of the JP version insist everyone must must MUST love the JP music and hate the dub music because it's the JP music and the dub music. That's what it all boils down to: bias. They owe me and everyone else this bullshit of theirs failed on an apology for wasting our time and setting us up for disappointment.

Of course, I'm not saying everyone has been as betrayed by the JP music (and everything else about the JP version) as I've been. But even still, they shouldn't be forced to watch something they have no interest in.


If you prefer the dub, that's find. I really could not care less. Is it necessary to insult the sub every chance you get?
I already covered this. And generally, I'm only getting this outraged response because it's the JP version, a fandom-proclaimed sacred cow that must never be tipped, that I hate. The dub is overhated and underrated, and so it's seen as acceptable to pick on, meaning that if it were the dub I've been treating badly, I'd be as beloved as Dephender. It's been over a year since I said this exact same thing (in this exact thread, even), and I still haven't been proven wrong on this.

(Once again Dephender, nothing personal to you by saying this. I'm just using you as an example of a respected fandom figure.)
 

AuraChannelerChris

"Tis an honor to be recognized."
I've seen so many other JP lovers elsewhere who don't have an issue mentioning the music because...well, anime brought over usually keeps all of its tracks without replacing them. The only JP dubs arguments you see is how they prefer Japanese dubs than English dubs voices (which so many times they are extremely biased).

It's just that the Pokemon anime suffers from not having the original tracks made by professionals and also suffers from a very mixed bag of voice actors (and voice directors ruining deliveries and picking the wrong voice actors...sorry, but Lisa Ortiz does not work as a voice actor, much less so as a director calling the shots). This anime is the one place where things are too cheap in the West and the differences are...very, very noticeable when compared to the original version. If this were handled by places like Bang Zoom Entertainment or even Sentai Filmworks, you'll notice the quality going up several notches.

(Anyway, I only watch to learn what not to do in writing and amuse myself with those errors, even if it's for younger audiences (which may also explain how TPCI doesn't put that much effort in localization). It's been an enriching experience so far...for the wrong reasons. Ha ha.)
 

Victorian Rush

Weather Manipulator
One of the reasons I quit watching the JP version was to eliminate its ability to give me chances to rightfully pick on it. Obviously, that didn't work 100% perfectly as I still say things at its expense, but the lower frequency I do that nowadays means it worked at most 90%.

The thing is, fans of the JP version insist everyone must must MUST love the JP music and hate the dub music because it's the JP music and the dub music. That's what it all boils down to: bias. They owe me and everyone else this bullshit of theirs failed on an apology for wasting our time and setting us up for disappointment.

That’s funny because I have not seen a single sub fan say anything like that. Also, I’ve noticed that when anyone says something megative about the dub, you get all defensive. So, you’re allowed to pick on the sub but the second someone does that towards the dub, then it’s a problem? Hmmm.... go figure.

Of course, I'm not saying everyone has been as betrayed by the JP music (and everything else about the JP version) as I've been. But even still, they shouldn't be forced to watch something they have no interest in.

Then they don’t have to watch it, it’s that simple. No one is forcing them to watch it.
 

Ryu Taylor

Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
I've seen so many other JP lovers elsewhere who don't have an issue mentioning the music because...well, anime brought over usually keeps all of its tracks without replacing them. The only JP dubs arguments you see is how they prefer Japanese dubs than English dubs voices (which so many times they are extremely biased).

It's just that the Pokemon anime suffers from not having the original tracks made by professionals and also suffers from a very mixed bag of voice actors (and voice directors ruining deliveries and picking the wrong voice actors...sorry, but Lisa Ortiz does not work as a voice actor, much less so as a director calling the shots). This anime is the one place where things are too cheap in the West and the differences are...very, very noticeable when compared to the original version. If this were handled by places like Bang Zoom Entertainment or even Sentai Filmworks, you'll notice the quality going up several notches.

Yeah, they'll cater to weeaboos instead of people. I like it that TPCi ignores those wretched things and just keeps doing what they do.

Obviously I'm at an impasse with you and lots of others here. That changes nothing, though. The dub's had great vocal work since Lisa Ortiz got the job of VD, and really, I can count on only one hand the amount of times the dub's had a miscasting. But none of the dub's miscasting will ever be as bad as letting Inuko Inuyama give that ear-raping performance to Meowth (by the way, anyone who thinks Inuyama's doing good as Meowth will never be anyone I'll believe about acting quality of any kind), which of course cheated the entire country of Japan out of one of this episode's most emotional sequences.
The dub's had great music since...always. The older JP tracks were nice and deserved to be kept, and the dub music back then was wonderful. Admittedly, even I found Ed Goldfarb's music to be an acquired taste, but I'm happy to have acquired it. It's full of heart, soul, and passion. The JP music, on the other hand, became so heartless and soulless ever since XY that if it were an enemy from a video game, it'd be a literal Heartless.
Perhaps the dub has some cheapness to it, but somehow, that hasn't hampered the final product. Good things can come from limited resources. And bad things can come from an abundance of resources.
So, yes, I do notice differences when comparing the Pokemon cartoon's two versions: in Japanese, it's an overblown and overhyped piece of garbage. In English (and many other Western languages I've checked out), it's an enjoyable and fun little Saturday morning cartoon. I'll stick to taking out the garbage and watching the enjoyable cartoon.

So, you’re allowed to pick on the sub but the second someone does that towards the dub, then it’s a problem? Hmmm.... go figure.
So, they're allowed to pick on the dub, but the second I do that towards the JP version, then it's a problem? Hmmm... go figure.

Fixed it for you.

Also, I’ve noticed that when anyone says something megative about the dub, you get all defensive.
Frankly, my response depends on the complaint itself. For a while, most complaints were logical enough that while I disagreed with them, I could see where they were coming from. As soon as the backlash over SM064's skipping and banning happened and revealed some really nasty things from all involved, TPCi hater logic went straight back to the kind that makes the logic of conspiracy theorists seem like the most brilliant of rocket science. They really hit a new low.
 
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xEryChan

Pirate King
Staff member
Moderator
I have seen this episode probably over a million times by now and not once has this episode not had me crying after. It is such a great episode, I even have plans to show this episode to my nephew the next time I see him because that is how much I love it though when I watch it with him, I’ll show him it dubbed since I have yet to see this episode in the dub and I’ve heard good things about it.
 

Pikachu Fan Number Nine

Don't Mess wit Texas
I wonder what the overall critical reception was for this episode.

This seems to be one that would earn lots of praise. Episodes like this are really great television writing.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
mockingjay said:
did the writer just give up after this episode or

I know that to most fans this episode seems like the apex of the writers' ability to write emotionally charged episodes that deal with a difficult subject such as death, but I'm beginning to feel like this episode's sad moments overshadow the rest of the episode in the sense that the death of Mooland makes people overlook other noteworthy moments, such as Nyabby learning Fire Fang.
 
This episode is probably my second favorite episode of SM. I love it so much. Only beat by 'Showering the world with love' for me. It's truly infuriating that they didn't give full focus to Torracat and wasted time on whatever they wanted to do with Lycanroc. Litten's backstory was incredibly well done and i'm very sad that he didn't get proper focus before the Kukui match. This episode has registered itself as one of the best episodes in the entirety of the franchise.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
This episode is probably my second favorite episode of SM. I love it so much. Only beat by 'Showering the world with love' for me. It's truly infuriating that they didn't give full focus to Torracat and wasted time on whatever they wanted to do with Lycanroc. Litten's backstory was incredibly well done and i'm very sad that he didn't get proper focus before the Kukui match. This episode has registered itself as one of the best episodes in the entirety of the franchise.

The number of episodes where Rockruff/Lycanroc was the main focus of the episode is around the same as the number of episodes where Litten/Torracat/Incineroar was the main focus of the episodes.

Litten/Torracat/Incineroar: SM007, SM021 (this one), SM063, SM081, SM108, SM125, SM136, SM141, SM142 and SM143 (10 episodes)
Rockruff/Lycanroc: SM015, SM027, SM036, SM037, SM047, SM074, SM075, SM077, SM105 and SM139 (10 episodes)
 
The number of episodes where Rockruff/Lycanroc was the main focus of the episode is around the same as the number of episodes where Litten/Torracat/Incineroar was the main focus of the episodes.

Litten/Torracat/Incineroar: SM007, SM021 (this one), SM063, SM081, SM108, SM125, SM136, SM141, SM142 and SM143 (10 episodes)
Rockruff/Lycanroc: SM015, SM027, SM036, SM037, SM047, SM074, SM075, SM077, SM105 and SM139 (10 episodes)

I don't care about numbers. And if you really want to go there, then look at the number of trials Torracat did. Numbers don't mean anything really. Litten/Torracat didn't get a single episode between SM 21 and SM 63 while Lycanroc's episode were distributed over the course and the difference between SM 105 and SM 139 came after his dirty zombie mode plot was completed.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
I don't care about numbers. And if you really want to go there, then look at the number of trials Torracat did. Numbers don't mean anything really. Litten/Torracat didn't get a single episode between SM 21 and SM 63 while Lycanroc's episode were distributed over the course and the difference between SM 105 and SM 139 came after his dirty zombie mode plot was completed.

That happens in oter series single series. The DP team got shafted by Infernape (especially Torterra), XY team was shafted by Greninja.

If you look at the differences between episodes:


Pokémon​
1 to 2​
2 to 3​
3 to 4​
4 to 5​
5 to 6​
6 to 7​
7 to 8​
8 to 9​
9 to 10​
Litten/Torracat/Incineroar​
13​
41​
17​
26​
16​
10​
14​
0​
0​
Rockruff/Lycanroc​
11​
8​
0​
9​
26​
0​
1​
27​
33​

Litten/Torract/Incineroar has bigger gaps because it doesn't have a proper arc of 2 or 3 consecutive episodes (except the Exhibition Match), but also if you look at the episode numbers, the main Torracat focuses episodes started just after the end of Lycanroc's last arc in Ula-Ula, so the ending with Lycanroc's development to start with Torracat's development.
 
That happens in oter series single series. The DP team got shafted by Infernape (especially Torterra), XY team was shafted by Greninja.

If you look at the differences between episodes:


Pokémon​
1 to 2​
2 to 3​
3 to 4​
4 to 5​
5 to 6​
6 to 7​
7 to 8​
8 to 9​
9 to 10​
Litten/Torracat/Incineroar​
13​
41​
17​
26​
16​
10​
14​
0​
0​
Rockruff/Lycanroc​
11​
8​
0​
9​
26​
0​
1​
27​
33​

Litten/Torract/Incineroar has bigger gaps because it doesn't have a proper arc of 2 or 3 consecutive episodes (except the Exhibition Match), but also if you look at the episode numbers, the main Torracat focuses episodes started just after the end of Lycanroc's last arc in Ula-Ula, so the ending with Lycanroc's development to start with Torracat's development.

I appreciate that you took the time to organise the data, but you yourself mentioned the problem and failed to address it.


Litten/Torract/Incineroar has bigger gaps because it doesn't have a proper arc of 2 or 3 consecutive episodes

That is exactly my problem. I can't see a logical reason as to how the problem of having to use more beauty products is more intriguing and compelling than trying to live up to the legacy of your dead father figure who made you who you are. The decision of making Lycanroc the ace when you have an infinitely better alternative available is extremely confusing to me.
 
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