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Its odd how Ash's original two travel companions got it worse off overall

Discussion in 'Animé Spoilers' started by CyberCubed, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    What can be said about the way the writers treated Misty and Brock that hasn't already been said about a million times by now? These characters were initially loved, but most fans changed their opinions about them as the series progressed for various reasons.

    Granted its understandable, originally the show was never intended to be a 600+ episode series, and was going to end after about a year or so. These characters weren't intended to last for hundreds of episodes.

    If you don't count Tracey who was purposely short-lived, or Max who was just there as an extension of May, it really does seem like Misty/Brock got it worse off than everyone else. Even future sidekicks like Iris and Dento will probably be treated better overall.

    Part of it is the writers not giving them proper screentime, but it really is odd looking back at how the original two got treated compared to everyone else.
     
  2. Silver_Seoul

    Silver_Seoul Well-Known Member

    Errr... what?

    Misty is like. Uber popular, even to this day. Sometimes that popularity borders on unhealthy.

    And Brock... well, I won't comment on him.

    But this is like. Pointless. It really doesn't even belong in spoilers. Like. Why. Seriously.
     
  3. An00bis

    An00bis Wicked Witch

    Misty got a series of Special Episodes about her life as a Gym Leader following her departure which explored her feelings about the situation and how she overcame personal weakness and insecurity over her new position to become what she needed to be. The majority of the Final Episode of the Original Series revolved around Misty's departure even though Brock was (temporarily) leaving the group, too. Even the Dub picked up on this and edited the original Flashback Montage so it focused on Misty's friendship with Ash rather then Ash's friendship with her, Brock, and Tracey (ouch). To say that Misty got it bad off is a severe misjudgment compared to what Ash's other Traveling Companions received.

    For Brock it's too soon to say what will happen to him in the future. He hasn't even been gone an episode yet. If anything I'd say that the way that they brought about his departure from the group went awkwardly. For Brock to become a doctor was predictable but the execution of the idea left something to be desired. It was pretty much " I want to be a doctor " and Ash and Dawn were like " cool ".

    I actually wasn't disappointed with his final departure. Even though it was much shorter then what other members of the group received I felt it fit his character.
     
  4. Ash-kid

    Ash-kid Ash-kid

    They weren't important since in the beginning of the show, they only accompanied him on the journey, as Brock did for 600 episodes. You can't even compare between Misty and Dawn/May who had a main goal and they got equal screentime like Ash, and she only got 1-2 water tournaments and not much more than that.
     
  5. pokemon fan 132

    pokemon fan 132 Well-Known Member

    Got it worse?
    I dont think so.Misty was a great character having best chemistry with group in my opinion,having several achievements under her belt(like Whirl Cup,saving other lives,colving compicated situations etc),playing big role in Ashs growth as trainer setting up path for future females to enter in this show.She gained huge popularity,with her departure leaving big impact with many people liking her wanting her return.
    Character wise she was treated great,and when show started back in Kanto days noone minded how big her role was with people being satisfied what she got.Her pokemon were good too,especially ones like Psyduck bringing more humor to group.

    Now screentime wise,its true she didnt received enough which even ex head writer at that time admitted,an her story aswell her plots(like dream) were barely touched upon and her departure did happened with no build up or closure(still not getting one) but when we take everything into account there were more positive than negative sides in he story.Too bad though writers left so much untapped potential which she definitely had.
    She maybe didnt had as big role like May or Dawn did,but she was equally good character with quality being what matters.

    Brock was treated well in early days playing important role as Ashs coach giving him useful tips,coming up with strategies for him aswell giving him moral support.His character was good,having nice arsenal of pokemon,but problem was that with time writers neglected him more and more.Now he got several acomplishments during his run,having his moments(in DP infact he pleyed bigger role compared to Hoenn with his involvment in Team Galactic storyline) but unfortunately writers never did enough with him not exploring his goal of breeder more.
    However positive in a way thing was that he got decent half of closure to his story wanting to follow his path of becoming doctor which fitted him considering how this proffesion have several connections with his goal of being breeder still taking care of pokemon,making sure theyre raised well.

    And about statement how Iris and Dento will be treated screentime wise better.What is so strange in here?Writing has improved over the years with writers learning how to handle several things properly so of course they will get more in that sense.You cant compare level of writing back from staring days when show was priginally intended to last for 1 season only to level which is present now.

    Seriously Cyber you never stop to surprise me.

    However reason why she stayed as gym leader after she was initally forced to comeback was more because of not thrusting her incompetent sisters to leave gym in their hands after seeing how gym got badly treated in past rather than anything else.This can be noticed in chronicles couple of times expressing displeasure and dissapointment regarding her sisters having to stay at gym,stating how she has no other choice but to stay for time being implying desire to travell so in reality gym leader position was never her desire but more like a job while her real gole was left on side.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  6. thunderblade12

    thunderblade12 Well-Known Member

    I was planning on making a thread about something similar earlier but decided against it. Does anyone think the writers felt that Dawn's story got in the way of everything they wanted to do with Ash in Sinnoh? It seems like they were pretty lazy when it came to Dawn. Her rivals, the treatment of Ambipom, the Grand Festival. After the Grand Festival she didn't even do anything. On the other hand, AG seemed to focus mainly on May. Ash had no rivals and his quest had no build up. My thoughts: "so Ash is going to earn 8 badges just to lose to some new guy who we have never seen before and will never see again afterwards? Who the hell cares?"

    The writers seem incapable of handling two characters correctly. That's probably why they're reverting back to just having the girl be a tag-along like Misty rather than someone actively pursuing a goal like May and Dawn. It could be for the best if they have Iris and Dento actual use their pokemon for something every now and than unlike Misty and Brock. Ash's journey could be epic this time around if he doesn't have to share the spotlight. Back in Kanto/Johto they didn't go all out with Ash's team like they do now in AG and DP. If he gets 100% of the spotlight to himself I expect him to use all of his reserves at one point in BW and have a completely evolved Isshu team.


    Who knows, if Dawn had been a supportive character like Misty rather than an active character maybe they could have squeezed an Elite 4 or Frontier Brain arc into DP. If you cut the contest episodes of DP that's like 25 episodes at least (including all of the training and whatnot.)


    I just hope we don't go back to the Johto era where boring fillers are all that gap Gym Battles. If they're going to focus solely on Ash they need to make his story broad enough to fill majority of the episodes. An Elite 4 or Battle Frontier arc is a must in this saga... Even if they gotta randomly add the Generation 4 Frontier Brains. A full saga (about 200 episode) shouldn't just be one region if Ash is the only one doing anything.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  7. Brave Birdy

    Brave Birdy Well-Known Member

    I never changed my opinion of Misty. I thought she was a fun character to start with and never got sick of her.

    Brock's downfall was ultimately May. Both May and Ash had a major dream which required a lot of focus on in the anime, thus leaving Brock in the shadows. I don't think Brock would be receiving so much hate if he didn't stick around for 2 generations too long.
     
  8. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    Brock generally didn't get any more episodes in Johto than he did in AG/DP, it just SEEMED like he got less because the female character than started to get far more screentime than he did.

    I do think all the Dawn screentime is obviously what extended DP to 191 episodes and may have even cut Ash's league short. How many eps did they spend just on Dawn training or practicing appeals, for example?

    It is rather odd how even though May was inbetween a support character and co-star, she somehow still got more Contests than Dawn did and still got her fair share of episodes throughout AG.
     
  9. Lorde

    Lorde Banned

    Is it really so surprising that most of Ash's companions get ignored and tossed aside though, after their initial role is over with? I mean, the story is about Ash and Pikachu so they're bound to get favored and treated to special privileges the other characters don't get. I agree that it's sad that this tends to happen to them especially since I liked most of Ash's companions but there's nothing more for them in the anime. I think people still love them though, they just tend to forget about them that's all :x
     
  10. pokemon fan 132

    pokemon fan 132 Well-Known Member

    Sad thing is that some of Ash older companions were tossed aside with their role not being even over.Also its not like they dont have left things to do in this show,they could be further developed,with new subplots being open around them,aswell advancing their stories and goals being allowed to tie up open things in their stories(especially those whose story is unfinished like Misty or Max who definitely have potential)),at same time contributing and affecting the current plot which takes place in certain region.

    Problem is more that writers sadly want to use "new meat" with every new region,discarding older ones not paying attention to them which was even admitted in one of interviews with them(like that one with mr.Hidaka).
     
  11. Champion Jared 14

    Champion Jared 14 Well-Known Member

    Back in the Golden Age of Pokemon, character development wasn't big at the time, and anything that wasn't focused on Ash wasn't...really given that much...however, I must say this...
    I haven't forgotten this post, and neither will you.
    What he said.
     
  12. PePer

    PePer Well-Known Member

    ^
    Rofl

    Well writers skills imporved over years. They are better oriented how they should develop characters, but it was obivous that next generation characters will get better chance. Brock was an exepction, since they didn't replace him until now, just watch Dento make up for him.

    Whatever.
     
  13. DarkPrince

    DarkPrince Take that!

    I have been posting in the Anime Spoilers section from 1 month and now I find it weird how you always bring up Misty even when you don't want her to return?

    What's the cause?

    Anyway I think Misty got all screentime she wanted and Brock got more of it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  14. Elxar

    Elxar Well-Known Member

    Misty and Brock had the best chemistry with Ash. They were the best supporting characters. They're goal however are just secondary and the writers never gave the enough importance like what they did with Ash, May and Dawn.

    Brock wanted to be a breeder but changed his mind and decided to be a doctor. Misty wanted to become a Water Pokemon Master but had to temporarily become a Gym Leader (or rather permanent). They just became to inconsistent with what they want for these characters although they're new goals are still related somehow. Same goes for Gary and Tracey though I don't mid them much.

    Point is they should have had better reasons to leave like Charizard, training with the greatest Charizards in the world. They should have left because it will help them reach their goals and not because they are forced to or had a change of heart.
     
  15. Seiryu

    Seiryu Resident dragon

    Hey, what do you know? We agree on something!

    So why are you saying these things again?

    (Oh, right. To purposely rile up the fans of the older characters, wasn't it? Real mature there.)
     
  16. BlueDragonfangirl

    BlueDragonfangirl Well-Known Member

    I have a feeling Dento and Iris will at least get some battles, don't know about goals yet. Wish the people would tell us, musicals would just fit Dento, but who knows if he will Ash could do them instead for a couple of episodes. Any ways, yah it is sad how the older characters just get tossed a side, Tracey didn't do a thing either when he was on. But like the others said, this shows about Ash and Pikachu so. Oh wells, I like Ash the best any ways so.
     
  17. An00bis

    An00bis Wicked Witch

    ... so?

    Misty didn't want to return to the Gym to become the Gym Leader. She went anyway because she knew it was the right thing to do. Misty knew that her sisters were horrible Gym Leaders and would continue to be terrible Gym Leaders if she returned control of the Gym to them so she didn't even when they returned from their trip. For a while she was depressed over it and fumbled in her responsibilities but then she got over it. Misty's situation reflects the situation that countless people face as they get older. They may dream to become something spectacular but come to realize that there are other things they must take care of first before they can pursue their own happiness. Like many people in that type of situation Misty chose responsibility over her own happiness and she can't really be faulted for her decision.
     
  18. Evilo

    Evilo BEAUTIFUL!

    This.

    I feel like them saying they were the "worst off" is just a big, huge opinion. Ok, so kanto lacked what DP gained in writing, but the show was more about sheer entertainment and less about plot development and things like that.

    It's probably safe to say that Ash had the best relationship and connections with Misty and Brock. They had a lot of character bonding time and more thought was put into their development as a group than their individual stories, like what they did with May and Dawn and all of them. Though they were weak in plot, Misty and Brock certainly don't have it the "worst off overall". They proved to be two of the best supporting characters the show offered, and personally, they interacted more comically, which I feel is an important factor that has died for a more serious, plot-driven Pokemon Anime.
     
  19. Brave Birdy

    Brave Birdy Well-Known Member

    Exactly, once one of the support characters rose to a status closer to to Ash's, Brock was left as he originally was, and thus, should have left before the going got tough.
     
  20. RickHoenn

    RickHoenn Banned

    That's wrong Cybercubed, A LOT of people still love Misty & Brock and A LOT of people stop watching Pokemon when Misty left, I can't remember that when I was in school. there is a minimal part of the fandom in this forum.
     

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