January Plot Discussion

[lolipiece]

Alola! It's Pokespe time for November, and, boy, does it look like a doozy!

Spoiler

Lusamine's finally making her move! And it seems like she's made friends. Lots of them.

 

[horrahforyou]

Looks like Necrozma fuses with Solgaleo. I believe next month is the debut of the USUM chapters hopefully alongside Let's Go Pikachu Eevee chapters

 

[e9310103838]

Alola! It's Pokespe time for November, and, boy, does it look like a doozy!

Spoiler

Lusamine's finally making her move! And it seems like she's made friends. Lots of them.

Necrozma caught Solgaleo and Sun, and Moon and Lunala are chasing after them.

Sun’s great-grandfather's island seems to have been converted into Aether Paradise, and it originally seemed to plan to build Poké Pelago.

Anabel called Necrozma "Blinding One".

In the end, half of the year passed, Lusamine seems to have achieved her goal.

 

[lolipiece]

In the end, half of the year passed, Lusamine seems to have achieved her goal.

What.

So in the span of a single chapter, SM went from being one of the shortest arcs time-wise (I think Moon's been in Alola for only six days up until now?) to one of the longer ones?

But hey, that sure is a convenient excuse for Moon to grow out her hair and change clothes. Sun'll need a haircut, though.

 

[Maxim]

Looks like Papa Mohn's existence was finally alluded to. I hope that we see him in the flesh soon, as it's been a while since this manga debuted a game character.

When he appears, the only major SM character left to be shown would be Ryuki, as well as the SM appearances of Colress and Grimsley. For Ultra Recon Squad, I guess we'll have to wait as the Necrozma arc develops (I can't see them introduced otherwise, as the UB side of things has been pretty much already explored). I'm not even mentioning Rainbow Rocket.

 

[shoz999]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES! NECROZMA! NECROZMA! NECROZMA! YES! YES! YES!

 

[Lucky3]

Necrozma caught Solgaleo and Sun, and Moon and Lunala are chasing after them.

Sun’s great-grandfather's island seems to have been converted into Aether Paradise, and it originally seemed to plan to build Poké Pelago.

Anabel called Necrozma "Blinding One".

In the end, half of the year passed, Lusamine seems to have achieved her goal.

So I guess this is the transition to the USUM portion of the story. I wonder if they'll change the name of the arc.

I'm glad Kusaka kept the insane(aka best) version of Lusamine. She looks so happy with her Ultra Beasts XD.

What happened to everyone else, though? Surely the International Police and whatnot wouldn't just let her get away with that.

 

[lolipiece]

What happened to everyone else, though? Surely the International Police and whatnot wouldn't just let her get away with that.

When you have a miniature (as far as we know) army of super-powerful aliens on your side, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have much of a choice. I mean, it doesn't look like a desolate wasteland in that last panel, so Lusamine maybe hasn't tried blowing up cities with them.

Silvally's only defeated UBs in one-on-one fights (the brief scuffle it had with Pheromosa, Celesteela, and Guzzlord at Po Town never concluded), so it probably can't deal with over a dozen of them. And even if it could, what's stopping Lusamine from healing them back up again?

 

[shoz999]

So I guess this is the transition to the USUM portion of the story. I wonder if they'll change the name of the arc.

I'm glad Kusaka kept the insane(aka best) version of Lusamine. She looks so happy with her Ultra Beasts XD.

What happened to everyone else, though? Surely the International Police and whatnot wouldn't just let her get away with that.

Actually I have a strange feeling they are going to incorporate both versions of Lusamine. I feel like Kusaka is going to mainly incorporate insane Lusamine as in she still wants the Ultra Beasts out of the sake of beauty and nothing else but I feel like when Necrozma comes in and Lillie manages to get Lusamine to come to her senses, Lusamine is going to help out the crew after she's defeated. Through that, she's going to use the Ultra Beasts she befriended to help stop Ultra Necrozma as in we could see a battle between the Ultra Beasts and Necrozma, something I don't think has ever been done before in any Pokemon medium. Basically it's mainly insane Lusamine but her hero moment is more of a redemption moment at the end without the forced out-of-nowhere extra background information from USUM.

 

[Lucky3]

Actually I have a strange feeling they are going to incorporate both versions of Lusamine. I feel like Kusaka is going to mainly incorporate insane Lusamine as in she still wants the Ultra Beasts out of the sake of beauty and nothing else but I feel like when Necrozma comes in and Lillie manages to get Lusamine to come to her senses, Lusamine is going to help out the crew after she's defeated. Through that, she's going to use the Ultra Beasts she befriended to help stop Ultra Necrozma as in we could see a battle between the Ultra Beasts and Necrozma, something I don't think has ever been done before in any Pokemon medium. Basically it's mainly insane Lusamine but her hero moment is more of a redemption moment at the end without the forced out-of-nowhere extra background information from USUM.

Oh, I'm sure she'll turn good sooner or later because that kinda happens in all the games. Even in SM, she was more clinically insane and unpleasant than evil. Her goal was only to go to Ultra Space and live with the Ultra Beasts, kinda the opposite of what she's doing in Pokespe. That's pretty crazy but not necessarily evil. It's just that she was a big jerk about it. But once she gets there, she was more of a threat to herself than anyone else, really. If I recall, the only reason you follow her is to save her and Guzma, and it's implied that she becomes good after the whole Nihilego thing. I doubt Kusaka would leave her in a coma, so ending her character like USUM makes more sense. That's the one thing USUM did better with Lusamine.

 

[Zhydra]

Actually I have a strange feeling they are going to incorporate both versions of Lusamine. I feel like Kusaka is going to mainly incorporate insane Lusamine as in she still wants the Ultra Beasts out of the sake of beauty and nothing else but I feel like when Necrozma comes in and Lillie manages to get Lusamine to come to her senses, Lusamine is going to help out the crew after she's defeated. Through that, she's going to use the Ultra Beasts she befriended to help stop Ultra Necrozma as in we could see a battle between the Ultra Beasts and Necrozma, something I don't think has ever been done before in any Pokemon medium. Basically it's mainly insane Lusamine but her hero moment is more of a redemption moment at the end without the forced out-of-nowhere extra background information from USUM.

Or the forced back ground information from the first game.
We spent the first half of S/M with the obvious hint that Lusamine was the main villain and during the second half of the game, we are given some reason to want to rescue this *****.

Lillies moment on Exeggutor Island to try and tell us Lusamine wasn't always the wreck she became was a case of tell don't show when the only thing we saw on screen was mega ***** Lusamine.

For many, Lusamine turning nice all of a sudden once Nebby kicks her butt comes completely out of nowhere and the Post game hinting that her reasons for messing around in the first place was at the WRONG place at the wrong time. (At least USUM told us the whole Mohn ordeal during the main plot among other things that can still be considered being crazy.)

 

[shoz999]

Or the forced back ground information from the first game.
We spent the first half of S/M with the obvious hint that Lusamine was the main villain and during the second half of the game, we are given some reason to want to rescue this *****.

Lillies moment on Exeggutor Island to try and tell us Lusamine wasn't always the wreck she became was a case of tell don't show when the only thing we saw on screen was mega ***** Lusamine.

For many, Lusamine turning nice all of a sudden once Nebby kicks her butt comes completely out of nowhere and the Post game hinting that her reasons for messing around in the first place was at the WRONG place at the wrong time.

Actually the forced background information I'm referring to is Lusamine wanting to SAVE THE WOOOORLD! I thought the SM one was understandable as her insanity is rooted from her loss of her husband. Speaking of Lusamine's husband, do you think we will ever see Mohn? Maybe a little cameo appearance?

 

[Zhydra]

Actually the forced background information I'm referring to is Lusamine wanting to SAVE THE WOOOORLD! I thought the SM one was understandable as her insanity is rooted from her loss of her husband. Speaking of Lusamine's husband, do you think we will ever see Mohn? Maybe a little cameo appearance?

Oh the save the world thing is still something that stems from insanity and flat old pride. As someone tasked with the protection of all pokemon, would it make sense for her to stop Necrozma with her stuff, how everyone thinks how it should be handled be damned? (Phyco answers this rhetorical question by twirling his mustache and calls her egocentric for even thinking that.)

That was the reason why Lusamine wanted to use Nebby in USUM instead of asking the URS for some assistance. While Necrozma needed to be stopped, it was her excuse to... vent her frustration out on Ultra Space, feed her Messiah Complex and look for Mohn while she is at it.
She was in over her head and she agroo'd Necrozma Leeroy Jenkins style, that is a good way to get her butt kicked and then the prism meets Nebby. Beginning the Climax of USUM. Lol!

 

[shoz999]

Oh the save the world thing is still something that stems from insanity and flat old pride. As someone tasked with the protection of all pokemon, would it make sense for her to stop Necrozma with her stuff, how everyone thinks how it should be handled be damned? (Phyco answers this rhetorical question by twirling his mustache and calls her egocentric for even thinking that.)

That was the reason why Lusamine wanted to use Nebby in USUM instead of asking the URS for some assistance. While Necrozma needed to be stopped, it was her excuse to... vent her frustration out on Ultra Space, feed her Messiah Complex and look for Mohn while she is at it.
She was in over her head and she agroo'd Necrozma Leeroy Jenkins style, that is a good way to get her butt kicked and then the prism meets Nebby. Beginning the Climax of USUM. Lol!

Actually that's a notable difference between USUM and SM. Lusamine is portrayed as more prideful in USUM. I never felt like she was prideful in the original SM games, rather she was more obsessed.

 

[Lucky3]

Oh the save the world thing is still something that stems from insanity and flat old pride. As someone tasked with the protection of all pokemon, would it make sense for her to stop Necrozma with her stuff, how everyone thinks how it should be handled be damned? (Phyco answers this rhetorical question by twirling his mustache and calls her egocentric for even thinking that.)

That was the reason why Lusamine wanted to use Nebby in USUM instead of asking the URS for some assistance. While Necrozma needed to be stopped, it was her excuse to... vent her frustration out on Ultra Space, feed her Messiah Complex and look for Mohn while she is at it.
She was in over her head and she agroo'd Necrozma Leeroy Jenkins style, that is a good way to get her butt kicked and then the prism meets Nebby. Beginning the Climax of USUM. Lol!

The problem I have with Lusamine trying to save the world is that it's just a retread of every other Pokemon villain. Archie, Maxie, Cyrus and Lysandre were all working for what they thought was the greater good, they just happened to also be bonkers.

What I like of her SM portrayal is not her insanity per se, it's that her motivations are almost irrational, some twisted and obsessive understating of love. She isn't putting a façade like Ghetsis, she genuinely thinks that freezing Pokemon is an act of love. That feels so much more original to me, so I'm glad that Kusaka kept that side of her. Just look at that panel, she's genuinely enjoying herself with the UBs instead of plotting something else.

I do agree that her 'redemption' was done pretty sloppily, but it's not like that's the reason I like the character. I would've have liked her just as much if she had stayed bad until the end.

 

[Redstar45]

She will be getting real life check from her daughter soon

 

[Zhydra]

I do agree that her 'redemption' was done pretty sloppily, but it's not like that's the reason I like the character. I would've have liked her just as much if she had stayed bad until the end.

That was probably why USUM made the changes it did with her to try and clarify something or why we had the Anime not make her evil period but still a lousy parent that is responsible for her kids problems. (Flat out neglect.)

They tried to make a villain/ antagonist that we want to see redeemed in the end and they pretty much failed in S/M due to a few things I see wrong, including ending the plot right there when it should have continued.

(And before you say USUM should have been a sequel or DLC, most of the story in the first game would have never worked as one due to how Lillie and Nebby became attached to you and dumping all that on a new protagonist would result in B/W2's problems happening. With DLC... Necrozma showing up after the Beast Clean up killed the chances of that revolving around him.)

Though if you want to be technical, what Lusamine ended up becoming in USUM is generally a more villainous Zinnia instead of the other villains. A woman that became crazy with grief, done villainous things for a greater good while under the delusion they are the big hero. (They are anything but that!) When really their actions nearly doomed everyone.

Lusamine's actions resulted in agrooing Necrozma, Zinnia's resulted in the earth being exposed to an large oncoming meteor. (This lady was the reason Archie and Maxie got the idea to wake up Kyogre and Groudon in the first place... pokemon that would have caused the apocalypse.)

It makes Lusamine a weaker villain in USUM... but to me it makes her a better character.

At the moment IMO... the manga is kind of disappointing me in a lot of things.

(Lillie contributing less to the main plot in the grand scheme of things than the anime and USUM. "The game where she loses focus." Dare I say besides letting us know a few things about her and adding PTSD from the abuse done to the girl, she has zero development by this point. In addition, we have no Mina showing up, a lot of things being rushed. "No totem Kommo-o" No frozen pokemon scene, Hau contributing nothing compared to the games and the second Cosmog that comes off as an ass pull and dampers Lillie's hiding Nebby thing that was seen in both games.)

The S/M Manga is starting to drop things and it has one more year to make things interesting again because I seen Pokemon Adventures go above and beyond in this. (Gen 1 and 2, the first two generations had next to no plot in the games or the anime, so the manga made something from that.)

 

[lolipiece]

Lusamine's actions resulted in agrooing Necrozma, Zinnia's resulted in the earth being exposed to an large oncoming meteor.

What? The meteoroid was going to hit regardless. She did it because she needed to summon Rayquaza, and getting Groudon/Kyogre to rampage was the easiest way of doing it that. And it would've worked had the player not stopped Groudon/Kyogre in time.

USUM Lusamine was wrong on everything she did.

 

[Zhydra]

What? The meteoroid was going to hit regardless. She did it because she needed to summon Rayquaza, and getting Groudon/Kyogre to rampage was the easiest way of doing it that. And it would've worked had the player not stopped Groudon/Kyogre in time.

USUM Lusamine was wrong on everything she did.

Yes, I know! Zinnia stopped our other method to get rid of that meteor, (Zinnia has every defense in doing that since another timeline would have been screwed over.) resulting in us having to do things her way with Rayquaza which if we didn't have that meteorite with us... wouldn't have worked. (Hoenn would have went the way of the dinosaurs!)
Also if the player didn't stop Kyogre/ Groudon, people and pokemon would have died from the sea going out of control or being cooked alive under the sun. She was perfectly aware of this. (Zinnia is crazier than a Beagle in a rabbit field!)

And yes, USUM's Lusamine was egocentric ***** that still abused her kids, green lit Type:Null, took advantage of others for her own gain, froze the pokemon she was suppose to take care of and was still willing to kill Nebby for her goals, with no regards to what her kids have to say.
That was the reason why she had a blue screen during the early post game. (B4 Rainbow Rocket.) and why she was still a major villain in USUM. From failing to stop Necrozma and pissing it off, to the Ultra Recon Squad calling her out and Lillie having her turn while you were fighting the Prism. (Lillie did tell us the player what she was going to say.) It gave her a massive wake up call in how wrong her deeds were.
Heck Lusamine's actions still resulted in Ultra Beasts appearing all over Alola! Just this time Necrozma did it.

That is kind of the big difference between the two and why I said USUM's Lusamine is the more villainous of the two.

Zinnia is doing this for the greater good, as crazy and destructive as her actions are. She isn't wrong.
USUM's Lusamine... thinks it is for the greater good when it really isn't and is for much more selfish reasons than what she is telling us and herself.

 

[Lucky3]

One thing I would like to see explored is Lusamine's relationship with Guzma. Was she just using him or did she genuinely respect him? It was never made clear. In SM, even at her worst, she got quiet when Lillie asked if she didn't care what happened to him, despite having no issue ranting about how much she despised her own daughter to her face. Then there's the fact that he brought him along to Ultra Space for no particular reason. And that was a world that, according to her, was supposed to contain only her and the things she loved, and she gets mad the moment someone else steps in it. Then there's the fact that just using him implies she has real trust in his capabilities, which was the reason Guzma followed her to begin with.