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Jobbing vs Facing tougher Opponents

TheCrazyMaster

Well-Known Member
A lot of the times strength and feats are brought up for various Pokemon in the anime, a lot of people tend to bring up jobbing and anti feats. For instance I've occasionally seen people say that Ash's Charizard was jobbing when it fought Brandon's Dusclops, or that certain Pokemon like Buizel began jobbing as a series progressed. But on occasions like this I tend to ask myself why it isn't just possible for certain opponents to just so happen to be that strong?
So, what in your own opinion suggests that a Pokemon is jobbing rather than fighting a more powerful/skilled opponent and vice versa?
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
With regards to Lizardon versus Samayouru, I didn't think that Lizardon "jobbed" since his loss was entirely Satoshi's fault for commanding Lizardon to use a Fighting-type move on a Ghost-type. That battle has always irritated me, mostly because BW-era Satoshi got a lot of flack for forgetting basic things, yet that particular battle showed that Satoshi had moments of foolishness during battles even outside of BW.
 

Ubermuk

Sticky & Sweet
I consider jobbing to be any instance where a strong Pokemon with an above average battle record gets beaten easily by a Pokemon that is around the same power tier.

There's a big difference between putting on a hard fight and losing... and barely landing 1 or 2 hits and then getting decimated completely.
 

SerenaRulez

Well-Known Member
So, what in your own opinion suggests that a Pokemon is jobbing rather than fighting a more powerful/skilled opponent and vice versa?

With Pikachu it's easy to tell when he's jobbing because he has had the most battles out of Ash's Pokemon so we can tell when he's fighting a more powerful opponent in contrast to when the writers have him lose just because they want him out of the way so another Pokemon can win in his place. But it's harder to tell with Ash's other Pokemon.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Jobbing is generally considered a lazier way of establishing a character's toughness, usually through a very quick curbstomp battle. Many people notice the difference between this and just a genuinely challenging opponent by the poorer writing quality, especially if the losing character's competence is downgraded in order to have them get beaten and the overall battle is often rushed and basic with no real effort into tactics and display.

Usually a legitimately tough opponent is considered genuine if they are winning through noteworthy competence and they manage to overpower a legitimate offence, not just acting like that annoying kid during pretend fights that always has 'resists everything armour'.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
SerenaRulez said:
With Pikachu it's easy to tell when he's jobbing because he has had the most battles out of Ash's Pokemon so we can tell when he's fighting a more powerful opponent in contrast to when the writers have him lose just because they want him out of the way so another Pokemon can win in his place. But it's harder to tell with Ash's other Pokemon.

I at least agree that Pikachu "jobs" the most out of all of Satoshi's Pokemon based on how often he battles. It's always seemed strange to me that he's the mascot of the series, yet the writers have no problem making him the fall guy on a consistent basis. In any other series watching one of the main characters lose so frequently would be a turn off, but it works in Pokemon.
 

Kuzehiko

Kill the few to save the many.
I don't think Ash's Charizard jobbed to Dusclops. It was Ash's fault for forgetting a fighting-type move would not work on it.
 

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
jobbing-losing with the narrative purpose being to establish the opponent's strength
e.g: Paul jobbed to Cynthia, Tierno jobbed to Sawyer, Ilima jobbed to Guzma
It's not a job when the skill between trainers is night and day

Jobbing is Ash losing to Alain in the league
Jobbing is Hau losing to Ash
Jobbing is Guzma losing to Ash
Jobbing is Gladion losing to Ash
Jobbing is Kukui losing to Ash
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
BabaVanga said:
Malva's loss against Alain and Diantha's struggle with Ash are one of the better examples of jobbing IMHO.

I agree about Carnet, but maybe not so much Pachira. Considering that Alain had faced another member of the Four Heavenly Kings [Zumi] sometime before he faced Pachira and did quite well despite losing to him, I felt that it was realistic for Alain to have beaten Pachira, especially since he obviously gained more experience prior to their battle since we'd seen him battle more Mega Evolutions before that point. Carnet's Sirnight struggling against Satoshi-Gekkouga was embarrassing, however.
 

Applecorp

Well-Known Member
A lot of the times strength and feats are brought up for various Pokemon in the anime, a lot of people tend to bring up jobbing and anti feats. For instance I've occasionally seen people say that Ash's Charizard was jobbing when it fought Brandon's Dusclops, or that certain Pokemon like Buizel began jobbing as a series progressed. But on occasions like this I tend to ask myself why it isn't just possible for certain opponents to just so happen to be that strong?
So, what in your own opinion suggests that a Pokemon is jobbing rather than fighting a more powerful/skilled opponent and vice versa?

Charizard doesn't deserve the criticism for that disgrace against Dusclops because let's remember that it was Ash who was pulling the strings and he had a blonde moment for a second there. But Buizel becoming a jobber is a better example because he declined after Veilstone.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Applecorp said:
Charizard doesn't deserve the criticism for that disgrace against Dusclops because let's remember that it was Ash who was pulling the strings and he had a blonde moment for a second there. But Buizel becoming a jobber is a better example because he declined after Veilstone.

I think Buoysel was being built up as Satoshi's potential ace of the DP saga for a while until the writers shifted the focus to Hikozaru and its evolved forms. I figure that they thought the drama between Satoshi and Shinji made for better television and better development for Hikozaru than Buoysel.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
It's not a job when the skill between trainers is night and day

Jobbing is Ash losing to Alain in the league
Jobbing is Hau losing to Ash
Jobbing is Guzma losing to Ash
Jobbing is Gladion losing to Ash
Jobbing is Kukui losing to Ash

After Hau, all of Ash's Battles during the Alola League aren't precisaly examples of jobbing
 

Blastmaster

Well-Known Member
It's not a job when the skill between trainers is night and day

Jobbing is Ash losing to Alain in the league
Jobbing is Hau losing to Ash
Jobbing is Guzma losing to Ash
Jobbing is Gladion losing to Ash
Jobbing is Kukui losing to Ash
Those aren't jobbing. That just looks like you think any battle where you didn't like the outcome is jobbing.

I disagree with the end of Ash vs Alain too, but Greninja wasn't a jobber. It put up a good fight, better than anyone else, against the most powerful opponent Ash had ever faced up to that point. Jobbing would be any of Alain's other opponents, especially the other Megas, that pretty much all just got OHKOed. Or most of Ash's, for that matter. They couldn't offer any sort of real fight and were just used to push how overpowered the opponent was.

I'd say that's the key question with most jobbers: did the loser put up a good fight? This usually happens with Champion/E4 battles from OS-BW, though it's reversed in XYZ where Diantha fails to put up any legitimate fight against Ash. The main other area of jobbing is when Pokemon are treated as powerful threats despite constantly losing (Noivern and Torterra are the most infamous examples).
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Diantha did job but only to make Ash seem stronger which was a recurring thing in Kalos for some annoying reason. People kept jobbing against him just so that he'd look good...
I'll admit it was nice at first (especially after the BW League fiasco) but it wore thin the more they kept doing it.
 
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Leonhart

Imagineer
Ubermuk said:
Diantha did job but only to make Ash seem stronger which was a recurring thing in Kalos for some annoying reason. People kept jobbing against him just so that he'd look good...

While I do remember feeling exasperated by some of his wins, XY wasn't exactly a walk in the park for Satoshi despite certain characters losing to him to bolster his win record. Viola, Alain, and Urup managed to beat him, and he had to reflect and contemplate his next move after those losses.
 
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