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Jul 15: Movie 20 - Pocket Monsters the Movie: I Choose You! (Dec 11: Movie 21 reveal)

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Vaporias

Member
Yeah, the Ho-oh thing is still worth being excited for. That's why this movie needs to be as Ash focused as possible. This is possibly the only pay off to the Ho-oh subplot we will ever get. If these new characters take too much away from it, I just can't imagine any scenario where that'll feel like it was worth it.

People say that this isn't REALLY a nostalgia movie so its okay to add all this new stuff. But the actual basis and draw of the story IS entirely nostalgia based.

I can understand that. I haven't really watched the anime as much as I probably should, but I can see where this is all coming from. I think that since this is a movie celebrating a different aspect of the series' 20th anniversary, it's gonna wind up having some kind of nostalgia fest in some respect. We'll just have to keep a close eye on it, eh?
 

diakyu

Well-Known Member
Two things:
how long before Tumblr and discourse in general about no Brock,Misty or team rocket
upon seeing Piplup it thoughts of it "MUST MEAN Shinnoh remakes!!!!!"
I know it's fun to jump on people for jumping to conclusions but we can't act like they're haven't been signs of when a remake was coming in the past. We knew HGSS was coming before it was announced due to datamining. It was theorized through the distribution of Megas in XY that ORAS was coming. I see nothing wrong with them assuming it could mean something more, it is very suspect even if Piplup and Lucario are popular.
 
Yeaaah, that definitely ain't happening, sorry to burst your bubble but that's not how people generally operate in the real world™. Whether a character is a good person or a terrible one in the show has nothing to do with actual writing quality, and that's what I base my opinions on. Also I'm not "hating" them. I'm questioning the decision of the writers to create them in the first place. I'm not gonna say "Man Soji is such a terrible guy I hope he dies", I'm gonna say, "Man Soji's such a pointless character, he's nice and all but really not necessary for this story, bad writing". (if that ends up being the case)

To use a quote from Harry Potter that I love by to this day:

"Of course it's all happening inside your head, Harry. But why should that mean it is not real?"

You should get why I'm saying it now.

I'm curious if Soji and Mokoto are also "Heroes of the Rainbow" and that's why they're traveling with Ash to see Ho-oh.

I'd like to see that. It'd mean that Ash isn't the "chosen one", and there would be a "chosen three" instead - and that idea really has appeal, at least to me it does.
 
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Rohanator

Well-Known Member
To use a quote from Harry Potter that I love by to this day:

"Of course it's all happening inside your head, Harry. But why should that mean it is not real?"

You should get why I'm saying it now.
If they were actually real then I WOULD criticize them directly. :p But like I just said I'm not gonna spread hate about goddamn Makoto and Soji, I just wanna criticize the writers when I see a reason to do so (I enjoy it).
 

VoltTacklingPika

Well-Known Member
The sense of entitlement here is crazy. The original trailers didn't suggest at all that Misty, Brock, Gary or any other old character would be appearing. It only showed that beginning would be the very first episode, with Ash starting out on his journey, and that this time around it'd be different. Fans then speculated, on their own, that all the old characters would show up. At that time, it was a genuine possibility. But it was only that: a possibility. Without suitable information people hyped themselves up to the point where anything less wouldn't be good enough. This is the result. People acting like their expectations have been betrayed when the film never asked you have to those expectations in the first place.

I mean, come on, spitting on Pokemon's history? Disrespecting the fans? Are you guys serious? This film that starts at the very first episode and explores a plot thread that they've left alone this whole time is somehow spitting on Pokemon's history? This film that isn't catering to your desires is somehow insulting?

Frankly, it's all so stupid to me. Disappointment is one thing. People can be disappointed that certain characters aren't appearing. I get that. But ffs some people need to get a grip. You were not promised anything. Nobody came out and promised a remake or a retelling of the original story. Nobody said certain characters would appear. I'm not saying you have to like it but this constant overreaction to what this show does - the Kalos League, SM's announcement, now this - is just tiresome.


Back to the new characters thing, the argument that people will forget them therefore they're pointless isn't making a whole lot of sense. With every new film comes a new part of the world and a new story. Naturally, new characters SHOULD follow, because they're vessels for this story and world.

I support this decision, not just because it makes sense to me to tell an original story with original characters designed specifically for the story, but also because it's something different. Nostalgia isn't a bad thing and there's plenty of nostalgia in this film already. But I do feel that the moment a franchise starts relying on nostalgia to drive things is the moment they admit they can't come up with anything new or interesting.
 

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
Yep, new characters are a new part of the story and world that we grow to cherish as frontliners forever.

I'll go ask the massive and omnipresent Molly and Tory and Butler and Kidd Summers and Jack and Baron Alberto fanbases to see if they agree.
 

Shooti

Uber Trainer
So, no Misty, Brock or even Gary ? TR makes it like always though. Why do produces hate past companions of Ash, wasting every other opportunity to have them reappear in the anime ?
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
Yep, new characters are a new part of the story and world that we grow to cherish as frontliners forever.

I'll go ask the massive and omnipresent Molly and Tory and Butler and Kidd Summers and Jack and Baron Alberto fanbases to see if they agree.

this made me laugh
 

Spyro39

Well-Known Member
So, no Misty, Brock or even Gary ? TR makes it like always though. Why do produces hate past companions of Ash, wasting every other opportunity to have them reappear in the anime ?

What are you talking about? Just because the producers don't give Ash's past traveling companions a chance to reappear in the anime fully doesn't mean they hate them.
 

Janovy

Banned
I like how people are acting like the movie promised us Misty and Brock and then backed out on its promise.

Sorry, but you dont get to blame the writers for your own fantasies.
 
What are you talking about? Just because the producers don't give Ash's past traveling companions a chance to reappear in the anime fully doesn't mean they hate them.

It's an effect I see in fiction quite a lot that I think they're trying to avoid. It's an effect where a fan-favourite character gets a really dramatic send-off to either simply leave or die, and the fandom begins to get really sad. The fandom begins theorising about how they want the character to return due to wanting to see them as much as possible. The writer, too scared to disappoint their fanbase, usually ends up manipulating their previous idea to bring the fan-favourite character back in a rushed rewrite. This effect quite often makes the return of the characters feel stale and forced rather than genuine and meaningful. I think that's another reason for why Misty and Brock aren't returning - it'd feel too forced, feel like it's to simply please the fanbase.
 

ViperQueen

RAWR!!!
Is it possible that Ash encounters Marshadow during another day in Alola, and then it causes him to go back in time (or a world created by Marshadow?). Then the new people will probably be other people who also got stuck in this other realm. And then they need to find and fight Ho-oh (with Marshadow?) to escape? I kinda like seeing new pokemon because it kinda shows what his adventures would have been like(or should have been like) with all of the pokemon in the world; not just Kanto.

Cant' wait to hear more news!
 

VoltTacklingPika

Well-Known Member
Yep, new characters are a new part of the story and world that we grow to cherish as frontliners forever.

I'll go ask the massive and omnipresent Molly and Tory and Butler and Kidd Summers and Jack and Baron Alberto fanbases to see if they agree.

Molly - that little girl that kidnapped Ash's mum because she desired a mother figure which she never had? Tory - a kid with Pokemon related trauma? Jack - a guy that buttered Ash up so he could manipulate him into separating May and Manaphy?

Yup, what boring and pointless characters. Totally didn't contribute to their respective movies.
 

Yuugis Black Magician

Namaikina Imouto
What? Really? I had no idea. Then that means the creators must have some sort of good reasons on altering Ash's retelling of beginning his journey in this 20th movie.

Yuyama hasn't been involved with the television series on a personal level (storyboarding or directing) since early Best Wishes, but he's personally directed all of the movies and remains the chief director of the television series (while younger, better directors act as the series director). Mind you, Yuyama is nowhere near being a good director (just look at how boring all the films are), but if he's going to direct an anniversary film for his own franchise then he's going to want to try to avoid repeating himself.

Sun & Moon Episode #20 and the trailers for Movie #20 have made it very clear that Yuyama considers the 'core' of the franchise to be the bond between Satoshi and Pikachuu. Takeshi and Kasumi are just as disposable as Haruka, Masato, Hikari, Iris, Dent, Eureka, Citron, Serena, Suiren, Lillie, Mao, Mamaane and Kaki. Besides, now Souji, Makoto and Cross will give this movie (which might be the start of a new continuity) its own identity.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
I'm actually looking forward to this. Sure having no trace of OS Brock or Misty sucks a bit, but a story taking place in an alternate universe is a fresh air and possibly could display what this show would be like if each series took place in a different world. Maybe this will make the writers and producers more comfortable for a hard reboot? The sooner it's done the better. Only complaint is that the characters look so generic it's not even funny, but maybe the movie will portray them as interesting characters.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
You know, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of the new characters.

Coincidentally, last week I've recieved my copy of the manga adaptating Volcanion's movie.What I've found interesting is that it's pretty much Ash, Pikachu and the movie stars (yeah, no Serena, Clemont, Bonnie, Zygarde or even Greninja. Not even TR. Yeah, TEAM ROCKET was not there). I was surprised the story still flowed more or less the same.

Which makes me remember that aside from Max, May and Dawn, the other companion tended to be sidelined for the exclusive characters.

So, get the exclusives and made them companions is a very interesting concept and a nice way of update an old formula. I was never a fan of the movie-exclusive characters and found their presence intrusive, but this time I'm legimately interested and looking forward them.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
On one hand I appreciate the new content of the retelling of Ash's story. The retcon of older generation Pokemon into the story (aka Piplup, Marshadow), and the traveling companions.

However, while I do get this is an alternative universe (aka not canon at all), I don't like the fan fiction with high budget vibe this is putting out. Like someone who hates Brock and Misty at least as traveling companions and wants to insert original characters, especially since if I'm not mistaken Max was the ONLY anime exclusive traveling companion, and now Ash has 2 non game traveling companions. It's weird and off putting but at least it is interesting.

But I really have to ask and why it also feels fan fiction to me. Was it necessary to bring Marshadow and Incineroar? I mean I get this is the 7th generation of Pokemon, but it seems really convoluted to have a movie like this in respect to the actual anime. Still believe there should have been 2 movies. Just weird, would've preferred less important 7th gen Pokemon, Maybe Dhelmise. Or 4th gen Infernape.

And while I'm a little annoyed by Incineroar's appearance (though it's happened before) I do say it was animated and drawn beautifully that I cannot wait until Ash has one. It was beautiful. (Yes I know it won't look as good but still, I'm getting really used to Incineroar).

Not sure what to expect for the following movies given that there's no more event Pokemon, unless DLC Pokemon would be a thing. Would they do that though, in the new games route, by adding completely brand new Pokemon as a step up to adding new formes (aka Hoopa unbound Omega Ruby Alpha Sapphire) and make sun and moon outdated?
 
Wow, what's going on here? I was awestruck when I saw this trailer. While I was initially confused on why Misty and Brock were gone, I can definitely understand that they wanted to make the film original. They didn't go down the nostalgia pandering route, and included Piplup, Lucario, Marshadow, Incineroar, and more, and they look outstanding!

I really feel that you guys are acting too entitled and genwunner-ish (even though I know none of you are genwunners). This movie is calling back to OS because it started off the anime series, not because it is the "best series" or for nostalgia. And who says Gary's gone?
 

Golden_Latias

#SlayQueenSlay
If they included Misty, Brock, and Gary, it would be"genwunner pandering," which I thought the Pokemon community was tired of seeing. If they don't include them, then it's disrespectimg the history of the franchise. Damned if they do and damned if they don't, these writers are. This fanbase is never happy with anything. :/

Nobody promised Misty, Brock, and Gary would be in this movie. Nobody said it would be a reboot. The fans set their own expectations and are disappointed because they're not getting what they want. That's all there is to it. That's all there ever is to it. Seriously, I'm kind of happy tjey're doing this. A straight retelling of Ash's journey through a region where he didn't even earn half of his Gym badges would not have been exciting to watch IMO and really would be genwunner pandering. Sure, you could argue they could change it so Ash actually does battle Erika and Sabrina and the other Gym Leaders... but then, it would basically be Pokemon Origins with with Ash instead of Red as the main protagonist. That would add absolutely nothing to the franchise.

Want to scratch that nostalgia itch? OS is on Netflix. Go watch that. Go watch Pokemon Origins. There are options.
 
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