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July 12th: M22- Mewtwo Strikes Back Evolution (July 16: Supportive screening)

Ryu Taylor

Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
Until a proper review thread for this movie opens up, I'll just leave my thoughts on it here:

The art in the ending credits and the environments are the only part of the movie that looked good. Everything else looked awful, even worse than they did in the trailers and freeze-frames.

The script is as full of plot holes as the JP script of both M22 and M01. There was not so much as an attempt to explain how the Pokemon tears thing worked. And also, if Mewtwo's not an outright villain this time around, why keep that storm around? He isn't out to destroy the world with it in this one, which also raises the question of why he makes clones of everyone's Pokemon. Originally, he intended the clone Pokemon to be the population of the world once it was his, but now...basically no reason. This Mewtwo (and JP M01 Mewtwo) makes no sense at all. Plus, the dialogue in general apart from the maintained 4kids-isms isn't good; it's uninspired and bland.

The performances are excellent, especially those of Sarah Natochenny, Dan Green, and the returning cast from the 4kids dub. They did a great job despite having such a dull script to work with.

Except for the OP and ED of both the JP version and the dub, the soundtrack was awful. It's never a good sign when they let Shinji Miyazaki do remixes, and this OST was full of them. Back when I heard this OST from a Youtube playlist, I had given it a 21/100. But now that I've experienced it with the movie, I'm knocking that down to a 16. Happy as I am that the circus music that was in JP M01's flying Pokeballs scene got removed and replaced with something more suitable, it doesn't save this OST.

The story has the same "makes no sense" problem as the script does.

In numbers:
Story: 60
Animation: 50
Scenery: 90
Music: 16
Performances: 96
Script: 60
Overall: 39

Sad to say my prediction came true: I didn't like this movie. In fact, it's the new third worst Pokemon movie.

One more thing: there is no forgiving how terribly they bastardized the scene of Ash turning into metal. Pikachu's almost-catatonic quiet despair from the original beats the over-the-top wailing from this version easily.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Ryu Taylor said:
In numbers:
Story: 60
Animation: 50
Scenery: 90
Music: 16
Performances: 96
Script: 60
Overall: 39

I don't mean to nit-pick, especially since I agree that the music was probably one of the weaker elements of this movie, but isn't that overall score too low? When I calculated the six scores [story, animation, scenery, music, performances, and script] that you gave and then found the mean (average) sum, the final score ended up being 62, which would seem more fair to the movie overall especially given that you rated the performances as being almost perfect.
 

Ryu Taylor

Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
I don't mean to nit-pick, especially since I agree that the music was probably one of the weaker elements of this movie, but isn't that overall score too low? When I calculated the six scores [story, animation, scenery, music, performances, and script] that you gave and then found the mean (average) sum, the final score ended up being 62, which would seem more fair to the movie overall especially given that you rated the performances as being almost perfect.
I don't play by math's rules when putting a number to how much I enjoy something overall.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
I don't mean to nit-pick, especially since I agree that the music was probably one of the weaker elements of this movie, but isn't that overall score too low? When I calculated the six scores [story, animation, scenery, music, performances, and script] that you gave and then found the mean (average) sum, the final score ended up being 62, which would seem more fair to the movie overall especially given that you rated the performances as being almost perfect.
Some of it wasn’t too bad specifically the scene where Pikachu tries to revive Ash in vain and the all out battling which did feel more like a full fledged war happening. The movie also did a good job bring out each of the Pokémon’s unique personalities where Charizard immediately recognizes the threat and tried to take matters into its own hands head first which we have seen it do before, Pikachu actually being concerned about all the senseless fighting and refusing to participate because it knows it was wrong, and Meowth knowing that there was no point in fighting the clones as everyone would lose in the end. I also liked how Wingull were mentioned instead of seagulls during the storm scene. A few things could have been done better though such as having a different voice actor for Giovanni that better suited the man and adding a few small details to better differentiate the clones from the original Pokémon such as noticeably different markings on Vileplume’s petals and random black feathers on the white area of Pidgeot.
 

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
He just wasn't shaped right to me, he looked smaller then I think he should have looked.

An almost five-foot tall bird standing next to a teenager looks small. M'kay.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
An almost five-foot tall bird standing next to a teenager looks small. M'kay.

I mean his body shape like his wings looked small, he looks wasn't as sleek which made him look more compact.
 

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
I mean his body shape like his wings looked small, he looks wasn't as sleek which made him look more compact.

Maybe he's a smaller Pidgeot. The average sizes in the PokéDex aren't absolute even in CGI, I'd assume. *shrugs*
 

landipan

Well-Known Member
Finally finished the movie, and man it was a bust for me. All the charm of the original felt removed, the emotional scenes felt hollow compared to the the 4kids version. And it was such a shame they removed the meowth speech! I also never warmed up to the art style they went with.

All in all, I wasn't a fan of this one, but then again it was going to be hard no matter what for a remake to reach the glory of the original movie. I went to see the original in theaters as a kid and it was so amazing, the OST was one I listened to for years, those are big shoes to fill and I felt like this remake never got near to filling them.
 

Eddieursa

Marsh Trainer
This is just an idea, but at the end of this movie, we had Mewtwo and the clones arriving to the secret hideout they had in Johto in the special "Mewtwo Returns". Does this mean that, possibly for the 24th movie, we will have a remake of the special as a movie? I don't see other reason for this post credits scene.

We can assume they want to make a new movie trilogy about Mewtwo? The third one will be a remake of the Black and White's movie? The problem is, that Mewtwo wasn't the same one from the first movie.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
This is just an idea, but at the end of this movie, we had Mewtwo and the clones arriving to the secret hideout they had in Johto in the special "Mewtwo Returns". Does this mean that, possibly for the 24th movie, we will have a remake of the special as a movie? I don't see other reason for this post credits scene.

We can assume they want to make a new movie trilogy about Mewtwo? The third one will be a remake of the Black and White's movie? The problem is, that Mewtwo wasn't the same one from the first movie.

The only purpose a remake of the BW one would be, is if they outright retconned it and make Mewtwo the only Mewtwo in existence.... y'know, like he should have been.
 

Eddieursa

Marsh Trainer
The only purpose a remake of the BW one would be, is if they outright retconned it and make Mewtwo the only Mewtwo in existence.... y'know, like he should have been.

I'm not so sure, pal. Two Mewtwos could actually be a good thing, as they won't feel as the only one of their species. Besides, I think they made it so each one of them could have one of its MegaEvolution. The first one was a male, so he would have the MegaEvolution X, becoming part Fighting Type. And the second one was a female, so it fits it has the MegaEvolutions Y, remaining Psychic type. Besides, the first male Mewtwo was way more aggresive than the second female one.
 

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
I think if they were going to insert Mega Evolution into a remake, they would've done it with the clone starters for Mewtwo to flex on his "Clones are more powerful than the originals!" spiel. Real missed opportunity, but whatever.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Kutie Pie said:
I think if they were going to insert Mega Evolution into a remake, they would've done it with the clone starters for Mewtwo to flex on his "Clones are more powerful than the originals!" spiel. Real missed opportunity, but whatever.

Wouldn't the clones using the power of Mega Evolution to defeat their regular forms somewhat contradict Mewtwo's message about clones being superior? Because from my viewpoint, if the Mega Evolved forms of the three Kanto Starters had beaten their real counterparts, it might've made Mega Evolution seem solely responsible for the vast gap in strength between the originals and the clones, rather than their status as clones being the reason for their superior strength.
 
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Eddieursa

Marsh Trainer
It called my attention too that Team Rocket was presented here not as a bunch of thugs, but as an army worthy of nazis. It really worries me. Do you think think Team Rocket in the current anime has evolved into something like this? If it has, this could surely bring serious problems for Ash in the future.

Even more if the "Team Rainbow Rocket" plot is used and Team Rocket collected the remains of the previously defeated teams: Team Aqua, Team Magma, Team Galaxy, Team Plasma and Team Flare. Would you like to see Ash and friends fighting in somekind of war against Team Rocket's forces?
 

Sonnas

Well-Known Member
It called my attention too that Team Rocket was presented here not as a bunch of thugs, but as an army worthy of nazis. It really worries me. Do you think think Team Rocket in the current anime has evolved into something like this? If it has, this could surely bring serious problems for Ash in the future.

Even more if the "Team Rainbow Rocket" plot is used and Team Rocket collected the remains of the previously defeated teams: Team Aqua, Team Magma, Team Galaxy, Team Plasma and Team Flare. Would you like to see Ash and friends fighting in somekind of war against Team Rocket's forces?
Considering we never see them besides the TRio. They don't seem to be like that.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
It called my attention too that Team Rocket was presented here not as a bunch of thugs, but as an army worthy of nazis. It really worries me. Do you think think Team Rocket in the current anime has evolved into something like this? If it has, this could surely bring serious problems for Ash in the future.

Even more if the "Team Rainbow Rocket" plot is used and Team Rocket collected the remains of the previously defeated teams: Team Aqua, Team Magma, Team Galaxy, Team Plasma and Team Flare. Would you like to see Ash and friends fighting in somekind of war against Team Rocket's forces?
The thing is that the anime portrays Team Rocket and Giovanni very differently from the games. He is an underground crime boss that rarely does any type of battling outside of his Gym Leader duties. The Rocket grunts do all of the dirty work. TR was also never disbanded or forced out of existence as an organization. Giovanni isn’t out to take over the world or cause some catalytic event that would put millions of lives in danger. Mewtwo was just a set back and never was supposed to be a weapon of mass destruction. Mewtwo became a threat to the world on its own. Every other major evil team leader wanted to destroy or dominate the region or world. Archie and Maxie wanted to harness extreme weather changes to create their “perfect” world. Cyrus wanted to create a world without any emotion by literally messing with time and space. Ghetsis was a mad man who wanted to become a dictator of a region where no one but him used Pokémon. Lysandre was going to cause mass destruction by firing an ancient and dangerous weapon. I don’t count Lusamine as an evil team leader because Aether really wasn’t an evil team and in SM the workers were technically only defending their workplace and protecting Pokémon at the facility because you the player were trespassing and broke into the building. And Lusamine only wanted to find her husband and out of grief created wormholes that inadvertently allowed the UB to invade. Lusamine had no idea what the Beasts were truly capable of.
 

Kutie Pie

"It is my destiny."
Wouldn't the clones using the power of Mega Evolution to defeat their regular forms somewhat contradict Mewtwo's message about clones being superior? Because from my viewpoint, if the Mega Evolved forms of the three Kanto Starters had beaten their real counterparts, it might've made Mega Evolution seem solely responsible for the vast gap in strength between the originals and the clones, rather than their status as clones being the reason for their superior strength.

Mewtwo's a huge hypocrite. It wouldn't have been out-of-character for him to implement Mega Evolution to troll the trainers.

It called my attention too that Team Rocket was presented here not as a bunch of thugs, but as an army worthy of nazis. It really worries me. Do you think think Team Rocket in the current anime has evolved into something like this? If it has, this could surely bring serious problems for Ash in the future.

What're you even talking about?
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Eddieursa

Marsh Trainer
There's one more thing that I didn't realize about the new version of the movie. This version started with the part of "Mewtwo: The Origin", where we saw how they found the fossil of Mew's DNA. However, Fuji's plot about using his experiments to bring back his daughter Amber was all skipped. Did they decide that human's clonation in this anime is too violent to be shown now?
 

Trey pokes

Well-Known Member
There's one more thing that I didn't realize about the new version of the movie. This version started with the part of "Mewtwo: The Origin", where we saw how they found the fossil of Mew's DNA. However, Fuji's plot about using his experiments to bring back his daughter Amber was all skipped. Did they decide that human's clonation in this anime is too violent to be shown now?
Maybe not, but given what happens here compared to the 1st movie.... was most likely for the better.
 
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