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July 18th: PM2023 103 - Stay Ablaze, My Love for Gurumin!

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
They have the luxury of being before hz writing went... and its budget
Look I'm not gonna haggle too much on HZ for that (Aside from Geeta and Nemona) coz it was a conscious decision they made to have their own entirely original story and not tackle any SV story whatsoever. I personally disagree with such a decision and have many thoughts on this but I always like to judge a series by fair merits, by what the writers and direction was going for and not what my own personal fanfiction wants to happen. I just hope future stories still tackle story elements from the games and incorporate them while telling their own original story and HZ is just an exception
 
I hate to be a pessimist, but I worry that Hattrem won't be given a privilege of a win if they ever rematch Grusha. It feels like they've firmly decided that she'll be a support mon, so perhaps she can help deal damage, but I think she'll simply fulfill the role of a healer more than anything.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I hate to be a pessimist, but I worry that Hattrem won't be given a privilege of a win if they ever rematch Grusha. It feels like they've firmly decided that she'll be a support mon, so perhaps she can help deal damage, but I think she'll simply fulfill the role of a healer more than anything.
I think Hattrem will definitely evolve tbh and grow from just being a support mon, I'm kind of confident on the HZ writers on this one. Plus even if they planned not to evolve it, I think they will based on how much the fans want it
 

Darkspade64

Well-Known Member
I hate to be a pessimist, but I worry that Hattrem won't be given a privilege of a win if they ever rematch Grusha. It feels like they've firmly decided that she'll be a support mon, so perhaps she can help deal damage, but I think she'll simply fulfill the role of a healer more than anything.
I honestly don't lose hopes on that yet. Until she evolves, I won't give up on the idea of her still becoming useful in battle as well. I think that as Hatterene she can still be a healer while also being good in battle. Unless her eventual evolution proves otherwise, I'm still not going to consider her out of the games.
 

AzureMagix

Well-Known Member
I hate to be a pessimist, but I worry that Hattrem won't be given a privilege of a win if they ever rematch Grusha. It feels like they've firmly decided that she'll be a support mon, so perhaps she can help deal damage, but I think she'll simply fulfill the role of a healer more than anything.
Its her personality thats holding her down for her species she is wayyy ro passive. And sje gets overwhelmed still when things get tough like when she was hatenna I think when she evolves her personality will shift a bit and she will def be more confident than she used to be
 

Darkspade64

Well-Known Member
Well I do. They shouldn't waste a mon like hattrem for just support especially seeing the hatenna line in the MPM ep.
Same. I want her to become useful in battle, especially for Liko's sake. I love Liko as character, but for too long she always relied exclusively on her starter for battles, and that put her in a big disadvantages... her streak of losses in the third arc speaks for it (heh... to be blatantly fair, it's not like if the secondary Pokemon of Roy and Dot did much either before the current arc, but still). Now Horizons is fixing that, Pagogo is starting being used in proper battles (if the one against Katy is an indication), and she has now a Charcadet which can be potentially become a formidable Armarouge. But I don't think it's wrong to wish Hattrem becoming useful in battle too, and despite what happened in her previous centric episode, I still think she can become useful if she evolves. And it's not like if a change of personality wouldn't happen if she evolves, we saw it several times in the anime (Dot's Tinkatuff is a perfect recent example. She was such a crybaby when she was a Tinkatink, and look at her now). Liko's team would be formidable with four strong Pokémon with a ton of type coverage, much better than having to rely on a single Pokemon all the time.
 

AzureMagix

Well-Known Member
Same. I want her to become useful in battle, especially for Liko's sake. I love Liko as character, but for too long she always relied exclusively on her starter for battles, and that put her in a big disadvantages... her streak of losses in the third arc speaks for it (heh... to be blatantly fair, it's not like if the secondary Pokemon of Roy and Dot did much either before the current arc, but still). Now Horizons is fixing that, Pagogo is starting being used in proper battles (if the one against Katy is an indication), and she has now a Charcadet which can be potentially become a formidable Armarouge. But I don't think it's wrong to wish Hattrem becoming useful in battle too, and despite what happened in her previous centric episode, I still think she can become useful if she evolves. And it's not like if a change of personality wouldn't happen if she evolves, we saw it several times in the anime (Dot's Tinkatuff is a perfect recent example. She was such a crybaby when she was a Tinkatink, and look at her now). Liko's team would be formidable with four strong Pokémon with a ton of type coverage, much better than having to rely on a single Pokemon all the time.
Pagogo isn't gonna be used willingly by liko in regular fights. Katy was the one who wanted to fight agaisnt Terapagos.liko wasn't even thinking if using it. She needs to focus on Hattrem and Charcadet now
 

Darkspade64

Well-Known Member
Pagogo isn't gonna be used willingly by liko in regular fights. Katy was the one who wanted to fight agaisnt Terapagos.liko wasn't even thinking if using it. She needs to focus on Hattrem and Charcadet now
Well, maybe she might be more willing to do so after how it performed against Katy (or Pagogo itself would ask her to do so). The point is: it can fight and it fights well, so it counts, period.

But regardless... yes, she has to focus on Hattrem and Charcadet now.
 

AzureMagix

Well-Known Member
Well, maybe she might be more willing to do so after how it performed against Katy (or Pagogo itself would ask her to do so). The point is: it can fight and it fights well, so it counts, period.

But regardless... yes, she has to focus on Hattrem and Charcadet now.
I really don't think she will. Its a clear one shot mon. Its a box legendary so like any regular battles its in. Its an obvious win if it loses that will hurt liko way more with people tryna say she is fraud again. So it best for her to use normal mons than Her legendary
 

Darkspade64

Well-Known Member
I really don't think she will. Its a clear one shot mon. Its a box legendary so like any regular battles its in. Its an obvious win if it loses that will hurt liko way more with people tryna say she is fraud again. So it best for her to use normal mons than Her legendary
Well, it's not like if it can't be in troubling situations: against Ghost types all it could do is spamming Ancient Power, as its other attacks don't work on Ghost types. Steel types as well could be problematic as all of its attacks are not very effective on them, same for Rock types, excluding Ancient Power. To say: I think it would have very low chances against Roy's Mega Lucario. It resists to all of its attacks, and has type advantage, so with Close Combat it would demolish it. So as much strong Pagogo is, it doesn't mean it's always a "one shot mon", there are situations in which it does have its limits (only if it uses the Stellar Form it would be invincible, but it will never use it in regular battles. Also keep in your mind that in its last battle, in order to land that powerful Tera Starstorm, she made Pagogo boost its stats by spamming Ancient Power first, so in order to really be "one shot" it has to land Ancient Power in hope that it boosts its stats). Which is why there are Liko's other Pokemon to compensate those (Meowscarada greatly counters Ghost and Rock types, and an eventual Armarouge would demolish Steel Types). The thing with Liko's current team, is that if Hattrem and Charcadet evolve, she will be a colossal amount of type coverage: where one Pokemon is weak, the other is strong, and together they're a formidable team... it's the story of the life of Pokémon battling in general. Once all Liko's Pokemon evolve, she will have a BEAST of a team.

Even so thought, there would still a bunch type combos that would give trouble to Liko's team anyway and... ironically enough (and not in a good way) Roy himself in future will have a Pokémon that would be problematic for Liko's whole team, if they ever fight again: Skeledirge. Because a Fire-Ghost type is dangerous for all of Liko's Pokemon.
 
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AzureMagix

Well-Known Member
Well, it's not like if it can't be in troubling situations: against Ghost types all it could do is spamming Ancient Power, as its other attacks don't work on Ghost types. Steel types as well could be problematic as all of its attacks are not very effective on them, same for Rock types, excluding Ancient Power. To say: I think it would have very low chances against Roy's Mega Lucario. It resists to all of its attacks, and has type advantage, so with Close Combat it would demolish it. So as much strong Pagogo is, it doesn't mean it's always a "one shot mon", there are situations in which it does have its limits (only if it uses the Stellar Form it would be invincible, but it will never use it in regular battles. Also keep in your mind that in its last battle, in order to land that powerful Tera Starstorm, she made Pagogo boost its stats by spamming Ancient Power first, so in order to really be "one shot" it has to land Ancient Power in hope that it boosts its stats). Which is why there are Liko's other Pokemon to compensate those (Meowscarada greatly counters Ghost and Rock types, and an eventual Armarouge would demolish Steel Types). The thing with Liko's current team, is that if Hattrem and Charcadet evolve, she will be a colossal amount of type coverage: where one Pokemon is weak, the other is strong, and together they're a formidable team... it's the story of the life of Pokémon battling in general. Once all Liko's Pokemon evolve, she will have a BEAST of a team.

Even so thought, there would still a bunch type combos that would give trouble to Liko's team anyway and... ironically enough (and not in a good way) Roy himself in future will have a Pokémon that would be problematic for Liko's whole team, if they ever fight again: Skeledirge. Because a Fire-Ghost type is dangerous for all of Liko's Pokemon.
You remember that a weakened Terapagos tanked dragon ascent from rayquaza right?. None of Roy's lucarios moves can deal that much damage to Terapagos. Yes Terapagos is a one shot mon, ot literally one shotted a rakurium using Protect... in that lucius backstory ep. And you forgetting that Ancient power can give omni boost right?. Skeledirge can be threatening but if Liko plays her cards right. Armarouge is very capable of beating Skeledirge. Its faster than it and Croc gets hard carried by its flame charge which I know it aint keeping upon evolution. It will need to rely on stomping tantrum which can take a bit to generate. And shadow ball which I doubt Armarouge is just gonna sit there to take
 
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Darkspade64

Well-Known Member
You remember that a weakened Terapagos tanked dragon ascent from rayquaza right?. None of Roy's lucarios moves can deal that much damage to Terapagos. Yes Terapagos is a one shot mon, ot literally one shotted a rakurium using Protect... in that lucius backstory ep. And you forgetting that Ancient power can give omni boost right?.
I don't see the point of the Rakurium part in this. Erasing Rakurium is Pagogo's whole point. What does it have anything to do with battles? Plus I'm pretty much sure that a Mega Lucario's Close Combat would hurt Pagogo WAAAAAAY more than Dragon Ascent.
 

AzureMagix

Well-Known Member
I don't see the point of the Rakurium part in this. Erasing Rakurium is Pagogo's whole point. What does it have anything to do with battles? Plus I'm pretty much sure that a Mega Lucario's Close Combat would hurt Pagogo WAAAAAAY more than Dragon Ascent.
It really wouldn't.... Dragon ascent one shotted Ceruledge and Charizard. One shotted cap. Rayquaza moves one shotted everyone except Terapagos, all its moves are 10x powerful than any of the gangs mon, it literally took out Tinkatuff with a dragon pulse... and Roy megaed Lucario against a rando snake trainer, so does that make that trainer equivalent to nemona?
 

Darkspade64

Well-Known Member
It really wouldn't.... Dragon ascent one shotted Ceruledge and Charizard. One shotted cap. Rayquaza moves one shotted everyone except Terapagos, all its moves are 10x powerful than any of the gangs mon, it literally took out Tinkatuff with a dragon pulse... and Roy megaed Lucario against a rando snake trainer, so does that make that trainer equivalent to nemona?
Uhm, perhaps this discussion is lasting more than it should, and it isn't really the topic to do so, since it's for the next episode. You don't mind if we close it here?
 

AzureMagix

Well-Known Member
Uhm, perhaps this discussion is lasting more than it should, and it isn't really the topic to do so, since it's for the next episode. You don't mind if we close it here?
Yeah I get what your saying but Terapagos is leagues ahead everyone else. That's actually why I dont want it to fight regular battles, it removes the presence of what legendaries are supposed to be. They're feats of Terapagos that put it above everyone one of the gangs mons. This show already has massive power level inconsistencies. Rayquaza didn't even flinch when taking on rakurium attacks from g moltres and arboliva. But we see ot getting tossed around in the raid battle even though all their attacks didn't do anything. So just know that you shouldn't be taken this show seriously with its feats because the writers be liking to show a mon fodder when they arent.
 
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