July 26th: SM83 - Satoshi Becomes Tiny

[Zerinon]

Did they really say that?!?

One old interview stated that one of the reasons they give Ash new female companions is to give the viewers new eye candy or something along those lines. At least, if I recall correctly. Don't know if that still holds true today but yeah.

That said, I doubt they will do anything weird with the girls though (or too weird as far as the Sun and Moon anime standards go...) They'll probably just have them hold Ash or have him sit on their shoulder for the most part. Maybe even bring back that gag from the work experience episode and dress him up like a doll or something (Perhaps as Sabrina's doll from the OG series as a small little callback), but that might be as far as it probably goes with them.
If they do do something out there, it would either be done in an very subtle manner and/or laughed off as a gag. (Such as the aforementioned Faba's machine backfiring again at the end)

 

[DatsRight]

A shame it's seemingly not Lillie getting shrunk in that regard for story potential. She HATES being treated like a plaything (and toying around with Ash in this state would likely make her look like a hypocrite).

SM actually feels a bit less subtle in the aforementioned direction since the girls feel less involved in stories and trainer roles than earlier females, and the setup at times feels like it's making a G-rated reference to giving Ash a harem. Episodes like this make me especially suspicious, since in nearly every pre-SM instance of stuff like this the girls gotten shrunk or fell victim to whatever silly antics were going on as well (e.g. the aforementioned Sabrina instance, where Brock and Misty were trolled by her magic as well).

 

[Deleted member 384931]

One old interview stated that one of the reasons they give Ash new female companions is to give the viewers new eye candy or something along those lines. At least, if I recall correctly. Don't know if that still holds true today but yeah.

That said, I doubt they will do anything weird with the girls though (or too weird as far as the Sun and Moon anime standards go...) They'll probably just have them hold Ash or have him sit on their shoulder for the most part. Maybe even bring back that gag from the work experience episode and dress him up like a doll or something (Perhaps as Sabrina's doll from the OG series as a small little callback), but that might be as far as it probably goes with them.
If they do do something out there, it would either be done in an very subtle manner and/or laughed off as a gag. (Such as the aforementioned Faba's machine backfiring again at the end)

Tbh it is kinda sad. For example they could have left Mallow out of the main cast because she almost didnt do a single thing. I think that a large main cast is negative for the developpement for pokémon and protags. Like Ash has shown that he CAN fight if he wants to. This Ash is a combination of childish beheaviour and seriousness if he wants to. Lillie is another example. She did fight and earned something but that felt like easy writing. Did she overcome something she was afraid or unsure about like May,Dawn,Misty,Serena ánd even Iris did. Not really and thát find I sad.

 

[DatsRight]

Lillie does seem like the one the writers are actually TRYING with though, since she does at least get a bit of balance, doing the occasional comic relief and having more developed moments of competence (eg. the Poni Canyon episode was a good example of 'flawed but competent Lillie'), even if she isn't nearly as versatile as Ash, or arguably even Kiawe and Sophocles that have been in many different plots, some barely even battle/Pokemon gimmick related.

I think the anime's sorta gradually leaning more and more into the boys doing the wilder more intense plot lines, backing from putting the girls in anything that might be too "mean", hence we have Ash and seemingly ONLY Ash doing episodes like this, the Passimian one or other diverse ones where things are really out of the twerps' comfort zone while the girls are stuck in more formulaic ones like TR/jobber Pokemon curb stomps. Similarly only the three boys have got stomped in battle so far, while the girls are only allowed in battles they'll either dominate or will get called off before they start losing.

It's a shame, one of the things I liked about earlier Pokemon episodes is that they were pretty indiscriminate with the scrapes gender wise, with Misty, May, Dawn and Iris often getting humiliated, roughed up or made to struggle for something as often as Ash to give them the same charm and fallibility. Nowadays they're rarely even allowed to lose a simple battle or competition.

 

[Zerinon]

Tbh it is kinda sad. For example they could have left Mallow out of the main cast because she almost didnt do a single thing. I think that a large main cast is negative for the developpement for pokémon and protags. Like Ash has shown that he CAN fight if he wants to. This Ash is a combination of childish beheaviour and seriousness if he wants to. Lillie is another example. She did fight and earned something but that felt like easy writing. Did she overcome something she was afraid or unsure about like May,Dawn,Misty,Serena ánd even Iris did. Not really and thát find I sad.

Yeah a larger cast can make it more difficult to distribute screentime and development for every character, especially if you consider that the Pokemon themselves also being a part of said cast. It leaves a lot to be desired, especially for Pokemon like Rowlet who I don't recall having an episode of its own yet (could be wrong though) and how the girls still only have one Pokemon each.

 

[Deleted member 384931]

Lillie does seem like the one the writers are actually TRYING with though, since she does at least get a bit of balance, doing the occasional comic relief and having more developed moments of competence, even if she isn't nearly as versatile as Ash, or arguably even Kiawe and Sophocles that have been in many different plots, some barely even battle/Pokemon gimmick related.

I think the anime's sorta gradually leaning more and more into the boys doing the wilder more intense plot lines, backing from putting the girls in anything that might be too "mean", hence we have Ash and seemingly ONLY Ash doing episodes like this, the Passimian one or other diverse ones where things are really out of the twerps' comfort zone while the girls are stuck in more formulaic ones like TR/jobber Pokemon curb stomps.

It's a shame, one of the things I liked about earlier Pokemon episodes is that they were pretty indiscriminate with the scrapes gender wise, with Misty, May, Dawn and Iris often getting humiliated, roughed up or made to struggle for something as often as Ash to give them the same charm and fallibility. Nowadays they're rarely even allowed to lose a battle.

Agreed. But it is too late to change this now for SM. Like the AF arc felt the same. Even when SM grew on me it felt si

 

[Deleted member 384931]

Yeah a larger cast can make it more difficult to distribute screentime and development for every character, especially if you consider that the Pokemon themselves also being a part of said cast. It leaves a lot to be desired, especially for Pokemon like Rowlet who I don't recall having an episode of its own yet (could be wrong though) and how the girls still only have one Pokemon each.

No you are right about Rowlet. Sadly you are right

 

[DatsRight]

Granted however, Rowlet has still ironically gotten more character and ability display than a lot of the other Pokemon this series, with a decent amount of battles, characterisation and interaction moments. He has a bit of character agency. I mean Steenee is seemingly going to evolve twice over and she's still a fraction as developed as Rowlet is right now.

The thing is that Ash and his team can make good use of whatever minimal limelight they get, while the likes of Mallow struggle even when they're on centre stage. This series seems to be good at developing the clownish characters, pathos and whimsy, a charm from them having to pratfall for every victory they get and what not, so the characters who don't usually do a lot of comedy struggle more (with the ones that do usually having to take extra lumps on their behalf ).

I mean Faba's biggest saving grace is that, in spite of being a very badly shoehorned plot device, he is at least a somewhat funny character.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Can Rowlet stop being an Oshawott living in a backpack. That has gotten so old.

 

[DatsRight]

Can Rowlet stop being an Oshawott living in a backpack. That has gotten so old.

I'd like Rowlet to battle again at long last. And if they're gonna keep up that gag with Steenee, at least do something different with it, even if it's just a couple odd 'Awww, she likes him deep down' sort of moments like the other bickering Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member 384931]

I'd like Rowlet to battle again at long last. And if they're gonna keep up that gag with Steenee, at least do something different with it, even if it's just a couple odd 'Awww, she likes him deep down' sort of moments like the other bickering Pokemon.

And not learn a move by sitting in a tree lol THAT is lame

 

[DatsRight]

And not learn a move by sitting in a tree lol THAT is lame

Different from plot armour during battle/against Team Rocket though. At least the cheapness was done off the clock instead of when the trainer is meant to be involved.

 

[Deleted member 384931]

Different from plot armour during battle/against Team Rocket though. At least the cheapness was done off the clock instead of when the trainer is meant to be involved.

Yeah. Lol it kinda sad that almost of Kiawes and Sop. Pokémon cant evolve and they get more focus then pokémon that can evolve. Maybe that is how SM works, it is a strange region.

 

[DatsRight]

Yeah. Lol it kinda sad that almost of Kiawes and Sop. Pokémon cant evolve and they get more focus then pokémon that can evolve. Maybe that is how SM works, it is a strange region.

I do appreciate that these aren't the guys you usually see get a lot of development though. Let's face it, in any previous series, Turtonator would likely be a rarely seen Pokemon like Onix or Luxray who seldom interacts or gains a personality, and only has the odd battle besides to get Worfed, while in SM he's almost as likeable as Ash's team. Marowak and Lycanroc would also likely be generic 'stoic evolved 'mon' who discarded all their former quirks and don't play around with the silly little kids of the bunch anymore, while in SM they're part of the kids and share Ash's balance of comedy and competence.

I'm still placing bets that the girls' Pokemon will all be placed on Pikachu's level of experience and development just by timeframe by the end of the series like Serena was at the end of XY though.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

I do appreciate that these aren't the guys you usually see get a lot of development though. Let's face it, in any previous series, Turtonator would likely be a rarely seen Pokemon like Onix or Luxray who seldom interacts or gains a personality, and only has the odd battle besides to get Worfed, while in SM he's almost as likeable as Ash's team. Marowak and Lycanroc would also likely be generic 'stoic evolved 'mon' who discarded all their former quirks and don't play around with the silly little kids of the bunch anymore, while in SM they're part of the kids and share Ash's balance of comedy and competence.

I'm still placing bets that the girls' Pokemon will all be placed on Pikachu's level of experience and development just by timeframe by the end of the series like Serena was at the end of XY though.

Well if they won't let the girls earn things the normal way, magic writing is gonna be the only way to make them level up.

 

[DatsRight]

Well if they won't let the girls earn things the normal way, magic writing is gonna be the only way to make them level up.

It kinda feels like an insult to Ash's development though. If you don't want the girls to get in the thick of things then fine, have them do something else, but don't have your cake and eat it too and say a handful of TR curb stomps does the same as all of Ash's hard work.

Ash is allowed to be good at things like battling and still be a complete failure in other things, why not the girls?

 

[TheWanderingMist]

It kinda feels like an insult to Ash's development though. If you don't want the girls to get in the thick of things then fine, have them do something else, but don't have your cake and eat it too and say a handful of TR curb stomps does the same as all of Ash's hard work.

Ash is allowed to be good at things like battling and still be a complete failure in other things, why not the girls?

I assume you're talking to the writers here.

I want the girls in the thick of things. Except maybe Mallow. She always struck me as more of a support role anyway. And even then, they still won't let her do much in that department.

 

[DatsRight]

I assume you're talking to the writers here.

I want the girls in the thick of things. Except maybe Mallow. She always struck me as more of a support role anyway. And even then, they still won't let her do much in that department.

When the series started I was hopeful Mallow may end up something like Dawn or Olivia's portrayal, an eccentric, sometimes blundering character that could still be incredibly competent and rugged when necessary, kind of Ash's kindred spirit. There is definitely shades of it there, but almost all of her role is plot driven, the formula needing to direct her through the whole episode or keep her in the sidelines. Ash, and to some degree, Kiawe, Sophocles and Lillie, have all had episodes they proved they could drive the whole plot by themselves, not the other way round, and in a fun and likeable way, due to having developed niches and the series not being too gingerly about their shortcomings, character agency in other words, while Mallow, and to a lesser degree Lana, are still reliant on the anime's old tricks hiding how unremarkable they are.

It's bad when I think even Team Rocket have better things to do than pick up the slack Mallow keeps leaving behind.

 

[playerking]

https://i.imgur.com/tNHj3rp.png

 

[ShadowForce720]

https://i.imgur.com/tNHj3rp.png

Okay so despite the summaries making it seem like Ash was going to be the only one being shrunk in the episode or for most of the episode it looks like judging from that picture that Lillie will also be shrunk, this opens up the possibility that the other characters could wind up getting shrunk as well although it's also a possibility that Ash and Lillie are the only ones that get shrunk in this episode.