DracoMaster121
Strategy Trainer
So was it a good victory for Alain winning 6-1 against Remo?
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July 28th: XY&Z035 - Fierce Rival Battle! Ash Greninja VS Mega Sceptile
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So was it a good victory for Alain winning 6-1 against Remo?
Alexander18
Dragon Pokemon fan
Yes because Remo wasn't Ash and that battle wasn't as important as Ash vs Sawyer or the upcoming Ash vs Alain. Alain deserved that win.
Don't you know? He's going off the assumption that Alain will win, thus a 6-1 victory is good for Alain, but a 6-4 victory is wrong for Ash. He isn't Arceus after all, geez!
Alexander18
Dragon Pokemon fan
I know he isn't but Ash isn't Arceus either. The battle with Remo is not as important as Ash battling him or Sawyer so Alain winning against Remo was alright.
Illusio
No words, only rage
Which is why I also mentioned the number of battles for it. The fact of the matter is he has had a low number of battles on top of a higher loss ratio, with his only one win not being nearly as big as Luxray for Goodra or Articuno for Charizard. Noivern's performance is not nearly that good and it's currently the weakest of Ash's Kalos team, I wish that i didn't have ti say that for him and he was doing better as I like him, but he's not at a point where I'd rate him highly.
Also, why are you not counting Clawitzer? No one ignores Pikachu's loss to Lucario because he was weakened, so why does it not count for Noivern? Plus, it's not like Pokemon haven't won despite a weakened state, particularly with Ash's team, so shoving aside the loss because of that doesn't make sense.
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DracoMaster121
Strategy Trainer
But Sawyer is shown as a protégé to Ash.
Therefore there should be a clear distinction that Ash is the more experienced trainer.
My own personal win/loss ratio. I never said it was the same as yours...I'm stating that there's a reason for Clawitzer taking out Noivern. If anything you're discounting the win against Doublade. Let's not forget all the ineffectiveness going on there...and Iron Defense. Yet it still won with a Dragon Claw. Sure, losing to Clawitzer may have made it lose, but it's hardly the same as going up against a Salamence with full strength. On that note: have we ever actually seen a Salamence battle in the League?
EDIT: We've only seen one Salamence under a trainer...and it was Drake of the Hoenn E4. I don't think we can outright say Salamences are super powerful. Oh, wait, there was one under a coordinator...that hardly is the same.
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I actually think it's less of a victory when Ash 1-0's him. Like it doesn't make sense to me, Ash beats Sawyer 1-0 then beats Alain 1-0 probably. Like what????
He should get 5-0/4-0'ed and have the same fate Remo had.
Btw if Sawyer battled against Remo who do you guys go for?
Illusio
No words, only rage
If I was discounting it, I'd be saying he had a 100 % loss record, but I never did. As I've said before, has a 1-2 win:loss ratio out of three battles, which is not impressive for the poor guy. I'm hoping this league goes more in his favor, but I'm not going to pretend he has the best of records going into it.
And you forgot Hunter J's, which was shown to be powerful enough to contest the Regis.
But wasn't an outright trainer battle. If we're talking Salamences that battled competitively and didn't try to kill 10-year olds, we only have Drake's to look at. All I'm saying is that Salamence, I get that it's a pseudo, but it's not invincible and certainly not against a dragon in an aerial battle whose primary type is actually flying. Let's also note that Ash has more or less been an expert at flying types and aerial battles since he kicked the crap out of Pokeringer in 2 seperate regions.
Illusio
No words, only rage
Speaking strictly battles, I agree, but that does show that the species as a whole has been played up to be powerful, just like how Cynthia's Garchomp is shown having impressive feats outside of battle. Salamence's big thing is also that it achieves flight, so it is a crucial part of the Pokemon.
I do agree that Ash has good aerial experience, but (as a consequence of us barely seeing him train it) we don't know the full extent of Sawyer's aerie experience, so it could match Ash's in that regard (as far as the region's concerned of course).
If we go by team development, then Shota would take it. Remo has the experience edge however and is actually a pretty good trainer. I would say it could actually go either way.
ZettaSlowKing
Well-Known Member
If Ash beats Sawyer by a slight margin and then goes to fight toe to toe with Alain, I can at least sort of see why.
Sawyer has studied Ash even since their first battle. So it makes sense that Sawyer knows how to counter Ash and give him a harder time as we saw with Slaking's (no pun intended) Counter strategy that was made for aggressive attacking types like Ash. Clawitzer's Aqua Jet negating it's and Talonflames speed difference, and Aegislash using Sacred Sword to cut down trees also limited Ash's ability to think outside the box. Its just like when battling in the games, really; You might be the more skilled player, but if your opponents team/strategy counters yours you can still find yourself outmatched.
Alain on the other hand wants to battle Ash to face Greninja again, as well as get Mega Evolution energy. He probably has minimal interest in Ash's team prior to the battle.
He's not trying to counter Ash as much as prove his strength.
Sawyer has studied Ash even since their first battle. So it makes sense that Sawyer knows how to counter Ash and give him a harder time as we saw with Slaking's (no pun intended) Counter strategy that was made for aggressive attacking types like Ash. Clawitzer's Aqua Jet negating it's and Talonflames speed difference, and Aegislash using Sacred Sword to cut down trees also limited Ash's ability to think outside the box. Its just like when battling in the games, really; You might be the more skilled player, but if your opponents team/strategy counters yours you can still find yourself outmatched.
Alain on the other hand wants to battle Ash to face Greninja again, as well as get Mega Evolution energy. He probably has minimal interest in Ash's team prior to the battle.
He's not trying to counter Ash as much as prove his strength.
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All right, let's just agree that both Noivern and Salamence have no good pool of battles on screen (but obviously battle off it in both cases) and that we can't properly determine the winner until next Thursday.
The only thing I will disagree with is Sawyer having comparable aerial experience. Ash's three flyers (fine, 2 1/2) contest that.
Disaster_Lord
Sad Bayleef is Sad.
Ash has aerial experience of 6 regions with multiple flying types at hand and enough expertise to FREAKING TUTOR AERIAL ACE TO KROKODILE!
It's hard to say Ash doesn't have aerial expertise.
Ash winning against Sawyer 5-6 is just plain bull. Even if Sawyer's team is specifically built to counter Ash's team there is no way he can compete when it comes to experience. It's fine for Alan to win 6-1 apparently, but not for Ash to have a solid victory against a rookie trainer... It would make no sense for Ash to be able to compete with SuperZardAlan in the finals if Ash's victory in the Semi-Finals is not dominant.
Alexander18
Dragon Pokemon fan
No it isn't. It would be the perfect way of creating tension for the battle. Ash winning 6 - 4 is just too much because that makes him look overpowered.
DracoMaster121
Strategy Trainer
6-0 is overpowered, 6-4 is just showing that Ash is the more experienced trainer.
Alexander18
Dragon Pokemon fan
I don't really like to see Ash win like that though. Sure he has more experience but it doesn't mean Sawyer shouldn't give a great battle.
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