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July 28th: XY&Z035 - Fierce Rival Battle! Ash Greninja VS Mega Sceptile

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Epicocity

Well-Known Member
If I was discounting it, I'd be saying he had a 100 % loss record, but I never did. As I've said before, has a 1-2 win:loss ratio out of three battles, which is not impressive for the poor guy. I'm hoping this league goes more in his favor, but I'm not going to pretend he has the best of records going into it.

And you forgot Hunter J's, which was shown to be powerful enough to contest the Regis.

But wasn't an outright trainer battle. If we're talking Salamences that battled competitively and didn't try to kill 10-year olds, we only have Drake's to look at. All I'm saying is that Salamence, I get that it's a pseudo, but it's not invincible and certainly not against a dragon in an aerial battle whose primary type is actually flying. Let's also note that Ash has more or less been an expert at flying types and aerial battles since he kicked the crap out of Pokeringer in 2 seperate regions.
 

Illusio

Well-Known Member
But wasn't an outright trainer battle. If we're talking Salamences that battled competitively and didn't try to kill 10-year olds, we only have Drake's to look at. All I'm saying is that Salamence, I get that it's a pseudo, but it's not invincible and certainly not against a dragon in an aerial battle whose primary type is actually flying. Let's also note that Ash has more or less been an expert at flying types and aerial battles since he kicked the crap out of Pokeringer in 2 seperate regions.

Speaking strictly battles, I agree, but that does show that the species as a whole has been played up to be powerful, just like how Cynthia's Garchomp is shown having impressive feats outside of battle. Salamence's big thing is also that it achieves flight, so it is a crucial part of the Pokemon.

I do agree that Ash has good aerial experience, but (as a consequence of us barely seeing him train it) we don't know the full extent of Sawyer's aerie experience, so it could match Ash's in that regard (as far as the region's concerned of course).
 

nameman

Well-Known Member
I actually think it's less of a victory when Ash 1-0's him. Like it doesn't make sense to me, Ash beats Sawyer 1-0 then beats Alain 1-0 probably. Like what????
He should get 5-0/4-0'ed and have the same fate Remo had.

Btw if Sawyer battled against Remo who do you guys go for?

If we go by team development, then Shota would take it. Remo has the experience edge however and is actually a pretty good trainer. I would say it could actually go either way.
 

ZettaSlowKing

Well-Known Member
If Ash beats Sawyer by a slight margin and then goes to fight toe to toe with Alain, I can at least sort of see why.

Sawyer has studied Ash even since their first battle. So it makes sense that Sawyer knows how to counter Ash and give him a harder time as we saw with Slaking's (no pun intended) Counter strategy that was made for aggressive attacking types like Ash. Clawitzer's Aqua Jet negating it's and Talonflames speed difference, and Aegislash using Sacred Sword to cut down trees also limited Ash's ability to think outside the box. Its just like when battling in the games, really; You might be the more skilled player, but if your opponents team/strategy counters yours you can still find yourself outmatched.

Alain on the other hand wants to battle Ash to face Greninja again, as well as get Mega Evolution energy. He probably has minimal interest in Ash's team prior to the battle.
He's not trying to counter Ash as much as prove his strength.
 
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Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Speaking strictly battles, I agree, but that does show that the species as a whole has been played up to be powerful, just like how Cynthia's Garchomp is shown having impressive feats outside of battle. Salamence's big thing is also that it achieves flight, so it is a crucial part of the Pokemon.

I do agree that Ash has good aerial experience, but (as a consequence of us barely seeing him train it) we don't know the full extent of Sawyer's aerie experience, so it could match Ash's in that regard (as far as the region's concerned of course).

All right, let's just agree that both Noivern and Salamence have no good pool of battles on screen (but obviously battle off it in both cases) and that we can't properly determine the winner until next Thursday.

The only thing I will disagree with is Sawyer having comparable aerial experience. Ash's three flyers (fine, 2 1/2) contest that.
 

Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
All right, let's just agree that both Noivern and Salamence have no good pool of battles on screen (but obviously battle off it in both cases) and that we can't properly determine the winner until next Thursday.

The only thing I will disagree with is Sawyer having comparable aerial experience. Ash's three flyers (fine, 2 1/2) contest that.

Ash has aerial experience of 6 regions with multiple flying types at hand and enough expertise to FREAKING TUTOR AERIAL ACE TO KROKODILE!

It's hard to say Ash doesn't have aerial expertise.
 

ManishB15

Member
Ash winning against Sawyer 5-6 is just plain bull. Even if Sawyer's team is specifically built to counter Ash's team there is no way he can compete when it comes to experience. It's fine for Alan to win 6-1 apparently, but not for Ash to have a solid victory against a rookie trainer... It would make no sense for Ash to be able to compete with SuperZardAlan in the finals if Ash's victory in the Semi-Finals is not dominant.


ash_greninja_pain_meme_4_by_42dannybob-d9qzzb7.jpg
 
Ash winning against Sawyer 5-6 is just plain bull. Even if Sawyer's team is specifically built to counter Ash's team there is no way he can compete when it comes to experience. It's fine for Alan to win 6-1 apparently, but not for Ash to have a solid victory against a rookie trainer... It would make no sense for Ash to be able to compete with SuperZardAlan in the finals if Ash's victory in the Semi-Finals is not dominant.


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No it isn't. It would be the perfect way of creating tension for the battle. Ash winning 6 - 4 is just too much because that makes him look overpowered.
 

shac

Well-Known Member
Now I am curious to know who wins in a match up of Sawyer and Remo. I would like to say Sawyer, but then Remo is no push-over with that team oh his. If these two were to battle I wonder how close of a battle that would be...
 

ManishB15

Member
I don't really like to see Ash win like that though. Sure he has more experience but it doesn't mean Sawyer shouldn't give a great battle.

6-4 does not mean it will be a bad battle. There is a huge difference between Alan and Sawyer.
 

DracoMaster121

Strategy Trainer
Now I am curious to know who wins in a match up of Sawyer and Remo. I would like to say Sawyer, but then Remo is no push-over with that team oh his. If these two were to battle I wonder how close of a battle that would be...

I'd go with Sawyer, his team is better than Remo's overall and would be able to counter Remo well. Remo would be able to put up a good fight though.

Garchomp -> Sceptile
Bouffalant -> Slaking
Gurdurr -> Slurpuff/Clawitzer
Rhyperior -> Aegislash
Pelipper -> Salamence
Granbull -> Slurpuff/Clawitzer
 

shac

Well-Known Member
I would like for Ash to win with at least a couple surviving pokemon. I am hoping when Shota brings out Sceptile (his last), Ash withdraws whoever was on the field and brings out Greninja just so that Greninja can fight Sceptile.
 

Emperor Empoleon

Honor of Kalos
Getting around Aegislash should be interesting, but I feel like the rest of the fight might be more like today's to save time for Narutoad :T
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
I'd go with Sawyer, his team is better than Remo's overall and would be able to counter Remo well. Remo would be able to put up a good fight though.

Garchomp -> Sceptile
Bouffalant -> Slaking
Gurdurr -> Slurpuff/Clawitzer
Rhyperior -> Aegislash
Pelipper -> Salamence
Granbull -> Slurpuff/Clawitzer

You know, that is genuinely tough. On the one hand, Remo has the power to take out probably most of Sawyer's team (and no rivalries to contend with either) but Sawyer is quite the tactician and would likely use Slurpuff to force any switches...Hmmm....I'd give the edge to Sawyer, high diff.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Well for me it would be bad because that would make Ash a bit too strong and he is no Arceus in my opinion.

My particular question to that is: how does losing with two Pokemon left suddenly make him some OP unbeatable Arceus? He did it to Crasher Wake in DP, 3-0ing him. He's done it to Sawyer twice in this series alone. Heck, even in all his gym battles except for Ramos and Wulfric, Ash would be leading with all of his Pokemon active against the Leader's ace. How is it so far out of the realm of possibility?
 
My particular question to that is: how does losing with two Pokemon left suddenly make him some OP unbeatable Arceus? He did it to Crasher Wake in DP, 3-0ing him. He's done it to Sawyer twice in this series alone. Heck, even in all his gym battles except for Ramos and Wulfric, Ash would be leading with all of his Pokemon active against the Leader's ace. How is it so far out of the realm of possibility?

This is a 6 on 6 league battle. I expect both trainers to reduce the other to one pokemon left. Really don't want Ash to be shown more stronger than he already is in my opinion.
 
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