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July 28th: XY&Z035 - Fierce Rival Battle! Ash Greninja VS Mega Sceptile

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ugotmybeef

Well-Known Member
my guess at what happens.

Pikachu vs. Aegislash (Pikachu wins and gets recalled)
- Noivern vs. Salamence (they take each other out)
- Goodra vs. Slurpuff (Goodra wins but takes alot of damage from fairy attacks)
- Goodra vs Sceptile (Goodra can't keep up with Sceptile's speed (had issues with helioptile before) and loses)
-Pikachu vs Sceptile (Pikachu loses)
- Sceptile vs Greninja (Greninja wins duh)
 
my guess at what happens.

Pikachu vs. Aegislash (Pikachu wins and gets recalled)
- Noivern vs. Salamence (they take each other out)
- Goodra vs. Slurpuff (Goodra wins but takes alot of damage from fairy attacks)
- Goodra vs Sceptile (Goodra can't keep up with Sceptile's speed (had issues with helioptile before) and loses)
-Pikachu vs Sceptile (Pikachu loses)
- Sceptile vs Greninja (Greninja wins duh)
I am surprisingly fine with this scenario. I still find the possibility of Ash sending out Pikachu against Sceptile completely stupid. I would rather like to see him notice how tired Pikachu is and voluntarily retire him from the rest of the match right after Goodra is defeated.
 

SceptileTheBanana

DRAGON TAIL!
As much as I would love to see Noivern take down Salamence, I honestly don't think it will. There's no way they're gonna show off a pseudo legendary pokemon like that and NOT let it get a win.
 

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
I understand that they're trying to make him out to be some prodigy trainer who can overcome strength with using planned out strategies. Which they haven't even shown yet in this battle so I'm hoping we get more than just attack after attack!

Man, this episode better have better thinking from Ash and Sawyer.
Do you even know any of this episode's dialogue? There IS thought behind the way Shota beat Hawlucha and Talonflame. A lazy unmoving opponent like Slaking is basically a psychological counter to Hawlucha who's battle style involves taking the opponents hits head on and showing off. And Talonflame, who specializes in speed, became beatable due to the slight delay in its movements caused by Ice Beam. You're free to think this tactics are still bad but Shota did explain the thought process behind his battling, so it's not just attack after attack.

Pikachu is going to cause a turning point for Ash, as thus far the battle has progressed exactly as Shota planned.
 

diakyu

Well-Known Member
Pikachu is going to cause a turning point for Ash, as thus far the battle has progressed exactly as Shota planned.
Can't wait for Sawyer to crap himself when he sees Goodra.
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
I am surprisingly fine with this scenario. I still find the possibility of Ash sending out Pikachu against Sceptile completely stupid. I would rather like to see him notice how tired Pikachu is and voluntarily retire him from the rest of the match right after Goodra is defeated.

That's really dumb. There is nobody who would ever do that. He will obviously battle Sceptile like how he battled Electrivire. If Ash is lucky, Pikachu can get in a quick attack or iron tail.
 
That's really dumb. There is nobody who would ever do that. He will obviously battle Sceptile like how he battled Electrivire. If Ash is lucky, Pikachu can get in a quick attack or iron tail.
If he's really going to send out Pikachu in order to inflict cheap damage, he doesn't fully trusts his godly frog for finishing off the job. Even though the entire Greninja arc was about trusting each other.

I really want to see this episode just so I can see a proper reason for Ash to just throw his mouse as a free kill for Sceptile.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
just because it's fully evolved doesn't immediantly mean it's going to be strong. Heck look at Torterra.

Not to mention given how reliant Alain is on his Charizard it could be rusty.

Torterra faced Bertha of the E4, did well enough.
Torterra faced Volkner's Electivire, got hit with a x4 surprise Ice Punch, in order to give more wins to Infernape.
Torterra faced Paul's Drapion, had to lose so Gliscor could get a win.

Honestly, Torterra is criminally underrated when looking at the opponents and plotforced losses he had to deal with.

Yes, but they also made it a point to show just how fast he grows in strength thanks to his rushed development. (How did he travel so fast around Kalos to collect I think 5 badges by XYZ 1 when he didn't have any in his previos appearance?)

So, I'm disappointed that this isn't a 6-4, but I understand that they're trying to make him out to be some prodigy trainer who can overcome strength with using planned out strategies. Which they haven't even shown yet in this battle so I'm hoping we get more than just attack after attack!

Man, this episode better have better thinking from Ash and Sawyer.

Clawitzer vs. Hawlucha: Counterstrategy 101 and Medicstrategy 101
Mega Sceptile vs. Raichu: Strategy 101
Slaking vs. Hawlucha: Counterstrategy 101

Heck, the kid uses moves like Attract and King's Shield and your saying that we don't see him be strategic enough? The battle is just getting started so don't worry so much.

Alain meanwhile has been relying on his mega charizard to get through battles, with the exception of Metagross (Who lost when used) we don't know how strong his other guys are, they could all be rusty due to Alain relying on Charizard so much.

I think it's a hard sell to say "Metagross lost when used". Charizard hadn't Mega evolved before facing Mega Garchomp, so it's a good assumption that Metagross went to town first.

But Ash is no slouch in the Kalos region. He's able to think outside the box, and I believe that will be Sawyer's downfall in the end. He has yet to adapt to Ash's battle style in real time.

Also, I believe that if Ash uses his other Pokemon against Sceptile, it may be top gain a sense of Sceptile's battle style. He has done that with his gym battles against Korina, Clermont, and Grant.

Ash s no slouch, yet this is the region that saw him lose two gym battles. The level is inconsistent at best.

Can't wait for Sawyer to crap himself when he sees Goodra.

League is filled to the brim with Mega Evolutions and Pseudo Legendaries (Tyranitar, Metagross, Salamence, Hydreigon, Goodra), so I honestly doubt it would shock him that much. Of course there will be some acknowledgment, but no fright or terror..
 

andrewscott48209

Well-Known Member
If he's really going to send out Pikachu in order to inflict cheap damage, he doesn't fully trusts his godly frog for finishing off the job. Even though the entire Greninja arc was about trusting each other.

I really want to see this episode just so I can see a proper reason for Ash to just throw his mouse as a free kill for Sceptile.

I think he's doing it for the same reason he used Hawlucha and Fletchender against mega Lucario.
 
That'll be interesting to see if Shota has really learned anything from Ash. Did he really evolve as a trainer or will this final loss against Ash allow him to grow?
 

Blazerz

Well-Known Member
One thing doesn't really make sense to me. Which is Pikachu's role for the rest of the battle. We know he goes down after Noivern. I really don't think Pikachu is going to be the last one before AG because well.. it's against Sceptile. We also know Sceptile mega evolves against Greninja. There is no reason for Sawyer to keep the ME if he goes against Pikachu since he basically halves the number of moves Pikachu can use ( only quick attack and iron tail ). So maybe something like this will happen:

Pikachu vs Aegislash (Pikachu, gets recalled)
Noivern vs Salamence (Salamence, poor Noivern ;()
Pikachu vs Salamence (Salamence, Pikachu is exhausted and mence goes big for Leprechaun)
Goodra vs Salamence (Goodra, since Sawyer doesn't really know what it does)
Goodra vs Slurpuff (tie)
AG vs Mega Sceptile (AG)

Or the other scenario where Noivern isn't a fall guy aswell.

Pikachu vs Aegislash (Pikachu gets recalled)
Noivern vs Aegislash (Noivern)
Noivern vs Salamence (Salamence)
Goodra vs Salamence (Goodra)
Goodra vs Slurpuff (Slurpuff)
Pikachu vs Slurpuff (Pikachu, but he goes down due to exhaustion after he knocks out Slurpuff)
AG vs Mega Sceptile (AG)

Both scenarios leave Greninja and Sceptile start off fresh. Pikachu basically battles half of Sawyer's team lol. Personaly i hate both scenarios since it ends 1-0.. i wish AG destroys this Sceptile..
 

Illusio

Well-Known Member
I think he's doing it for the same reason he used Hawlucha and Fletchender against mega Lucario.

Both Hawlucha and Flechinder, despite not being Megas, had a type advantage on Lucario. Both were honestly his best options from a type perspective and they only failed because they couldn't match his power, so Pikachu had to go in after them since he's Ash's strongest.

Pikachu doesn't have anything of the sort with Mega Sceptile as two of its attacks are neutralized. He only matches maybe in strength, and after fighting two Pokemon he's definitely not going to be in the peak condition he was for Lucario. So strategically, it's not a good option at all to throw Pikachu in there, it would be better to lead with Ash Greninja if he's not taking down Slurpuff first.
 
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Epicocity

Well-Known Member
True,. Also, don't forget that Ash and Greninja has perfected the synchro evolution/or whatever they call it, so I don't think Ash would be thinking that if Greninja faints, Ash would to.

I don't think that would be entirely true. We know from the second Wulfric battle that Ash still takes damage when Greninja is damaged while in that form. Therefore, one can assume that if Greninja faints, so too does Ash just like in their first match when the only reason Ash passed out there was Avalugg knocking Greninja out.
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
Do you even know any of this episode's dialogue? There IS thought behind the way Shota beat Hawlucha and Talonflame. A lazy unmoving opponent like Slaking is basically a psychological counter to Hawlucha who's battle style involves taking the opponents hits head on and showing off. And Talonflame, who specializes in speed, became beatable due to the slight delay in its movements caused by Ice Beam. You're free to think this tactics are still bad but Shota did explain the thought process behind his battling, so it's not just attack after attack.

Pikachu is going to cause a turning point for Ash, as thus far the battle has progressed exactly as Shota planned.

Yes, I did understand Sawyer's point for Slaking and Clawitzer for Ash's two birds but why leave Clawitzer in for Pikachu? Sawyer just doesn't seem like the kind f trainer to use a type disadvantage unless he has coverage moves which Clawitzer had nothing that owuld be super effective against Pikachu. I knew he would battle Pikachu from all the trailers, but why not recall Clawitzer and save him for later on. He has been shown to be, arguably, Sawyer's 2nd strongest pokemon so why not save him instead of having Pikachu face him?


Honestly, I'm not even entirely sure that Tierno was ever meant to be taken seriously as a rival. He had all of one appearance (the summer camp) before Sawyer was introduced battling Clemont and the only thing he beat Ash in was a game of tag. Had it been more than a mock battle, Ash would have found a way to counter his dancing strategy and won with Froakie. After that, Tierno consistently lost. So...I don't think it was Tierno's fault. I think they're just trying to show Sawyer as this intelligent prodigy; the opposite of Ash, ironically.

But why out of everyone do they make Tierno such a prominent character for that arc? They made it obvious that his dance strategy was something that Ash had never seen before and that he wanted to overcome it. Plus, why not just introduce Sawyer here and make his progress shown as he is defeated quickly by Ash, but by the end of camp he's much more confident. They could then have him reappear like they did in the anime and have Ash still help coach him until the end of Laverre City.


Clawitzer vs. Hawlucha: Counterstrategy 101 and Medicstrategy 101
Mega Sceptile vs. Raichu: Strategy 101
Slaking vs. Hawlucha: Counterstrategy 101

Heck, the kid uses moves like Attract and King's Shield and your saying that we don't see him be strategic enough? The battle is just getting started so don't worry so much.

Yes, those have all been shown to showcase Sawyer at his best as a strategist and I now realize that what I had typed was out of context. The Hawlucha vs Slaking was stratigized by Sawyer to lure Ash into a trap and so was Talonflame vs Clawitzer, but as I wrote up above, I just couldn't believe that Sawyer would leave Clawitzer in to face a fresh Pikachu. If he had recalled it and sent him out after Aegislash had tired Pikachu out it would have been different. The first two battles were perfectly fine to showcase Sawyer, but the Clawitzer vs Pikachu just felt like Sawyer had a brain cramp and forgot to recall his water type, who had two super effective moves to use against a Noivern who was just waiting to be used.
 

Amine

Well-Known Member
Yes, those have all been shown to showcase Sawyer at his best as a strategist and I now realize that what I had typed was out of context. The Hawlucha vs Slaking was stratigized by Sawyer to lure Ash into a trap and so was Talonflame vs Clawitzer, but as I wrote up above, I just couldn't believe that Sawyer would leave Clawitzer in to face a fresh Pikachu. If he had recalled it and sent him out after Aegislash had tired Pikachu out it would have been different. The first two battles were perfectly fine to showcase Sawyer, but the Clawitzer vs Pikachu just felt like Sawyer had a brain cramp and forgot to recall his water type, who had two super effective moves to use against a Noivern who was just waiting to be used.

It's the same with ash not recalling talonflame against Clawitzer. They're both dumb that's it.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
It's the same with ash not recalling talonflame against Clawitzer. They're both dumb that's it.

Recalling for a type disadvantage is actually usually predicted as not the smartest in the anime. The more you reveal your team, the easier it is for your team to be countered. Look at Ash vs. Paul. Ash constantly switched to get a better matchup, like switching out Staraptor to avoid and make use of Gastrodon's Ice Beam...but then Paul could accurately predict what was going to happen next and started sweeping. Ash left Talonflame in for the hope that Talonflame could outspeed Clawitzer...and he would have been able to if it weren't for the Ice Beam. Likewise, Clawitzer's movepool is extremely diverse, and had Ash not made use of the field and Electro Ball in such a way, Clawitzer would have likely done more damage. Pikachu and Ash were just faster at thinking on the fly.
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
It's the same with ash not recalling talonflame against Clawitzer. They're both dumb that's it.

There's a difference though. Ash has been shown countless times to not worry about type matchups. This is the same trainer who used a fighting type at a fairy gym and didn't care about the matchup. Sawyer though is shown to be quite the studious trainer who would seem to worry about type matchups as once he found out that steel types were strong against fairies he wrote it down in his notebook to use later on.
 
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