July 29th: PM2019 119 - Koharu and Eievui and the EV-io-lite Primer!

[DatsRight]

Meh. Literally every other dog pokémon except Stoutland is more interesting imo.

I dunno, SM gave Stoutland some appeal.

 

[Aryash Bajaj]

Even compared to Mighteyena ?

 

[Kazuniya]

Legitimately don’t know how people can say this with a straight face honestly

Pretty much all of the more interesting Chloe episodes are post Eevee

You are totally free to go ahead and name me all of these incredibly interesting Chloe episodes that you're claiming exist. Bulbapedia is right there, go ahead and name them and tell me what was so compelling about those episodes and in what manner they developed Chloe and Eevee.

Because as far as I can recall, it's a bunch of Eeveelution episodes where nothing of significance happens to Chloe and Eevee, and the focus is less on them and more on the COTDs and their Pokemon. Kinda like how the Glaceon episode is not about Chloe, but her friend from school and Glaceon, or how the Leafeon episode isn't about Chloe, but about Goh's damn Pinsir falling in love. Or how the Espeon/Umbreon episode spends more time developing Chloe's f-ing doppelganger than it does Chloe.

Or are you perhaps referring to the Jolteon/Flaren episode, where the culmination of the episode is that Chloe gets two evo stones (which we all know she isn't gonna use), and nothing of significance happens for her or Eevee?

The episode with Serena was definitely one of the more interesting ones, but that was largely thanks to Serena, and less because of anything Chloe or Eevee contributed to the episode.

Go ahead, and tell me with a straight face about all this development Chloe has received since she got Eevee.

 

[masdog]

Yeah like half the eeveelution episodes didn’t focus directly on her but she was at least still there doing things and participating in whatever activities or plots were related to said episode so I still consider it a overall better positive when it serves her arc of experiencing different things that she never got to before.

I think this is the key point right here. Chloe’s arc is about finding her dream and breaking free from the expectation that she become a Professor and love Pokémon because of her dad. Her experiences, disjointed as they seem, help with that even if we don’t think we can see a payoff from them.

 

[Ragnarok4]

This is hilarious.

Ok, so you listed a bunch of episodes, but you were incapable of actually writing what Chloe and Eevee have achieved together? And what Eevee supposedly did to help Chloe reach her goal? I wonder why.

Here I'll help you out. I'll be using Bulbapedia's episode numbering.

The biggest Chloe episode so far has been JN049 because that's Eevee's introduction, Chloe's motivations, becoming a Pokemon trainer. Definitely a huge episode for Chloe herself. They establish that neither Chloe nor Eevee know what they want to become and that they'll take this path together to figure out what they want to do. Honestly, good setup and Eevee's evolutions are a nice metaphor for Chloe's potential life paths.

Next is JN055. Uh, adventure with Galarian Ponyta and Rapidash featuring Chloe and Eevee. No progress is made towards achieving their goal, the episode doesn't even revolve around that. There's no huge development whatsoever.

Then JN057. An episode about Chrysa and Psyduck's trainer? Do you even count this as a Chloe/Eevee episode? Again, no progress is made, no huge development happened.

Then JN063. The first episode after Eevee's capture that is actually focusing on Eevee's potential evolution and what Chloe and Eevee might do in the future. Chloe gets a Water Stone, and checks with Eevee if she wants to evolve. Eevee refuses. Chloe is fine with it and doesn't want to push Eevee. Not exactly a huge development, but let's call this one a win because in the grand scheme of things, at least we learned what Eevee doesn't want to become, so it's slight progress.

Then JN069. Ah yes, the literal filler where nothing happens. Chloe/Eevee have zero progress or development.

Then JN072. Ah, Chloe joins the group for an adventure. No real Chloe/Eevee focus here either.

Then JN079. Finally, another episode that actually revolves around Eevee evolving. What happens here? Chloe shares her story with Soleil and...that's it. The episode is actually less about Chloe and more about Soleil and Ilunas. Isn't it f-ed up that a Chloe doppelganger got more development than Chloe? That's kinda f-ed up if you ask me.

Then JN081. Uh, nothing happens here for Chloe and Eevee.

Then JN087. Nice, another Eeveelution episode. Just like the last Eeveelution episode, this episode was more about Regina and her Glaceon than Eevee and Chloe. There's no talk about their future or evolving, no meaningful progress for Chloe whatsoever.

Then JN094. Leafeon episode! Chloe has a short talk with Erika about Eevee and that's it. The episode is more about Pinsir's love drama than Chloe/Eevee, which is actually kinda ridiculous.

Then JN098. Flareon and Jolteon episode! Uuuh, Ash, Chloe and Goh help out some random characters of the day and as a thanks, Chloe gets Fire Stone and Thunder Stone. There's no real talk about Eevee evolving, Just Chloe saying "I'll support Eevee no matter what she chooses", ok sure?

Then JN105. Serena and Sylveon! Chloe and Serena talk about Chloe letting Eevee choose her own evolution and Chloe's indecisiveness and then Chloe gets some relatable advice. She participates in a Contest, which is fine, she's actually trying out a potential career path for herself and Eevee. I could count this episode as some progress, but nothing really changes for them at the end of the day.

Then JN107. This is an episode about Yamper, not Chloe and Eevee lol.
------------

To summarize, there are like 6 episodes where Eeveelutions are featured and where Chloe talks about Eevee evolving and choosing a path for herself. She tries out a few activities, and, that's it? Half of these episodes didn't even revolve around Chloe and Eevee but the COTDs and their Pokemon.

So I am still really confused what you meant by Chloe's Eevee helping her reach her goal. What has been reached? They got three Evolutionary stones, a snow globe and a Leafeon perfume. There has been no meaningful growth or change in either character, from their first episode together until the latest episode, their status remains unchanged. And that status is: "I don't know what I want to become, just like you don't know what you want to evolve into, so let's support each other."

Literally not a single thing has changed since then. This is exactly why I'm not fond of the approach they took with Eevee and Chloe. Even when they do get some screentime, it's usually not even about them, and nothing ever changes.

Compared to Serena or Lillie, Chloe's character arc has been an immense disappointment.

Chloe is gradually getting more involved with Pokémon and the circus episode served as preparation for Serena's contest, which counts as something else that Chloe tried. She also has a battle against team rocket in Dawn's return episode, I mean those little things count and she's NOT that bad..!!

 

[Sham]

Honestly kinda weird most of those aren't in the "episodes focusing on Koharu" list but gotta downplay PokeGirls as much as you can nowadays

This is quite rich.


Anyways, Chloe was a character before Eevee and was a character after. Ash and Goh were clearly effecting her and she was growing more and more interested in Pokémon as time went on which lead to her eventually catching Eevee and starting a new chapter.

She absolutely did do things in her Eevee focus episode and definitely had a role in the Serena episode along with the others. It might be as linear as a competitive/performance goal but she has gotten development.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

This is quite rich.

*stares at every Koharu episode thread involving people grumbling about wasting an episode on Koharu instead of focusing on Ash or Go*

Are we watching the same show?

 

[Sham]

*stares at every Koharu episode thread involving people grumbling about wasting an episode on Koharu instead of focusing on Ash or Go*

Are we watching the same show?

No I meant you say crying= not a real Champion etc but then saying that.

That being said, you are correct that Chloe has had focus and it’s like you can’t win with her. If she gets focus episode it’s a waste if she doesn’t then she “does nothing”

 

[Twilight-Kun]

No I meant you say crying= not a real Champion etc but then saying that.

Crying that you lost, when you lost because you didn't attack the opponent, does not a good champion make, yes

It's not that hard to grasp

See also: catching a lot of pokemon doesn't make you a good trainer if you don't train said pokemon, or traveling around seeing what careers the world offers doesn't make you an eevee courier and nothing else

Do we call Professor Oak a pokemon trainer because he looks after Ash's pokemon? Is Paul a breeder since his brother is and he only wants the strongest pokemon on his team? Is Brock a doctor because he hits on Nurse Joy?

 

[Kazuniya]

She did more, battled more, and yes developed more

How did she develop? In what way is Chloe's character in the present any meaningfully different from Chloe when she first met Eevee?

Again, I have to repeat. Chloe screentime =/= Chloe development. You can't just say say "Chloe did this in this episode" and call it this huge Chloe/Eevee development episode, that is not how that works.

Before Eevee, Chloe was a girl without much passion for Pokemon, but she slowly gained appreciation for the Pokemon world, joined in on activities willingly, had her first battle, and then finally became interested in Pokemon. This all culminated with the Eevee episode where she finally became a Pokemon trainer. That is a lot of character development right there that happened BEFORE Eevee came into picture.

After Eevee came into picture, Chloe....did what? She participated in more adventures that had no significant impact on her or Eevee, with no meaningful progress for either her and Eevee. Where is this massive development that you claim exists?

Compare Chloe's development before she got Eevee, and after she got Eevee, and the difference is clear that she actually developed way more before Eevee than after.

 

[Dephender]

Reminder that Pokedoko is having an anime themed episode this week, you can always watch that instead:

Speaking of which, here's the anime quiz they did:

Are you a big enough fan to be able to fill in the blanks in these scenes?

"Breakfast is amazingly good!" "How about lunch and dinner?" "Lunch is ??? good and dinner is ??? good!"

"To think someone like me could make such a sorry face. I've started ??? so I won't ever forget that frustration!"

 

[Xuxuba]

My stance stays the same. If Eevee is not evolving into a new eeveelution, i truly couldn't care less about this arc. This is Chloe's main arc and she has no agency over it, as she is not actually gonna decide what Eevee will evolve into, she is just there watching him meet species that he probably won't pick either...

Spoiler

Judging by new gen's leaks, there isn't a new eeveelution so truly it was pointless from start to finish.

 

[Blaze Master X]

My stance stays the same. If Eevee is not evolving into a new eeveelution, i truly couldn't care less about this arc. This is Chloe's main arc and she has no agency over it, as she is not actually gonna decide what Eevee will evolve into, she is just there watching him meet species that he probably won't pick either...

Spoiler

Judging by new gen's leaks, there isn't a new eeveelution so truly it was pointless from start to finish.

You know, G-Max Eevee has yet to appear in the anime. And G-Max Eevee can't evolve.
Back in Alola/Royal Battle Episode, Lana said that Chloe's Eevee could choose to stay unevolved.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Chloe went from someone who had realised it's alright for her to take time to figure out her own path instead of what society forced down on her and warm up to Pokemon and the outside world in general to actually taking a more proactive stance in exploring the outside world and possibilites she can have ever since she caught Eevee, being more involved in going outside and wanting to go explore, happily accepting Ash's invitation to go to the Crown Tundra for example to explore this new research mystery rather than being apatheic and going only for the sake of Eevee/schoolwork (even then Ash and Goh had to drag her from time to time)
She's a slowburn character who's had changes and development. Now I TOTALLY understand people not necessairly liking that or thinking it's lame or whatever, but those people also put her on the same pedestal as a main character which she isnt. Its why I personally love Chloe because she seems like such a nice insight into a more humane character in the Pokemon world with slow growth but evident growth throughout the series, and also hate when she is called an Eevee taxi when Eevee is instead meant to be a plot device to be a) a metaphor for Chloe herself b) Be the pivotal step for Chloe being more proactive and taking an interest in the outside world and the mysteries of Pokemon, organically walking the path of Pokemon research rather than it being stamped on her because her father did it

For me personally, thats a nice arc but I understand people who dont like it or are bored by it. I do hope that eevee evolves into Leafeon though but whatever happens, Im pretty sure Chloe's path will be becoming the new research fellow and getting into Pokemon research after Goh and Ash part ways

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Do you think they’ll be a special preview after this? Maybe featuring Leon vs Diantha, Ash vs Cynthia, companions returning and Project Mew

 

[satopi]

Speaking of which, here's the anime quiz they did:

Are you a big enough fan to be able to fill in the blanks in these scenes?

"Breakfast is amazingly good!" "How about lunch and dinner?" "Lunch is ??? good and dinner is ??? good!"

I’m taking a guess and saying, “Lunch/Dinner is really good’”

"To think someone like me could make such a sorry face. I've started ??? so I won't ever forget that frustration!"

“I’ve started taking selfies so I won’t ever forget that frustration!”

 

[Dephender]

I’m taking a guess and saying, “Lunch/Dinner is really good’”

Close, but not quite.

“I’ve started taking selfies so I won’t ever forget that frustration!”

That one's correct. Nakano got it right on the show too, not too difficult if you're familiar with the character.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Boy, is anime!Raihan way sillier with that reason for taking selfies at all. No wonder he was pretty pathetic as an opponent.

 

[Yce288]

Lets see if i'm right, in case the opening will be part of this episode:the Marnie and Piers scene from the opening was changed to Raihan and then to Hop, meaning so far it shows the latest trainer Ash had battle with so now this scene should show Steven, but unlike Marnie, Piers and Raihan who stopped appearing after their battle with Ash, Hop might still appear to cheer for his brother so maybe the scene will show Steven for a second and then Hop and his Wooloo for a second.

 

[Blue Saturday]

I would love to see Wanpachi evolve into Pulsewan and join her team but the problem with that is Wanpachi is the protector of Sakuragi Park and less a pet now. It doesn’t need to be caught by Koharu anymore but I would still love it to. I’m just tired of seeing Copycat/Tackle and Spark, lol. I thought they originally removed Wanpachi from Sonia’s team because Koharu would show off Pulsewan tho.