July 8th: PM2019 116 - Champions' Pride! Wataru VS Carne!!

[Master Pikachu 11]

So if the writers wiped Satoshi-Gekkouga from existence does that retroactively make Alan and his Mega Lizardon X weaker and thus we the audience should perceive them as such since Alan only defeated a mere base Gekkouga?

Even though they never showed form via Flashback, Ash still mentions the form to Goh on the plane ride to Kalos before we see Greninja in his episode. So even though they don’t show it they still acknowledge it’s existence, which at the end of the day I rather see his form then here a character talk about it.

 

[Blue Saturday]

Even though they never showed form via Flashback, Ash still mentions the form to Goh on the plane ride to Kalos before we see Greninja in his episode. So even though they don’t show it they still acknowledge it’s existence, which at the end of the day I rather see his form then here a character talk about it.

I don’t think it’s meant to be the literal form/transformation in-canon. Just Satoshi’s and the frog’s encouragement in battle. Like Lucario’s Kyodaimax Aura Sphere just being a giant Aura Sphere and not a real Daimax move.

 

[GLTSRY]

I don’t think it’s meant to be the literal form/transformation in-canon. Just Satoshi’s and the frog’s encouragement in battle. Like Lucario’s Kyodaimax Aura Sphere just being a giant Aura Sphere and not a real Daimax move.

It is, tough. Each time the AG transformation happened in XYZ, the characters were shocked.

 

[DuquÊ?]

Wouldn’t be too sure about that. We already had Leon vs Lance, and they might want to have an equal gender ratio in the semifinals

Well, you’d normally expect Diantha would do better than Lance, anyway, since she have the best counters to dragon types (mega gardevoir alone could sweep this).

But, Lance is a champion for two regions and the previous second place in the tournament, chances are mostly on his side, even if I’m not eager to see him lose to Leon. Again.

I’m on Team Diantha, anyway.

 

[janejane6178]

I’m on Team Diantha, anyway.

You are wonderful. Me 2.
She is a champion AND the 5th strongest trainer in the world AND a worldwide model AND a worldwide actress
She is a wonder woman

 

[GLTSRY]

Well, you’d normally expect Diantha would do better than Lance, anyway, since she have the best counters to dragon types (mega gardevoir alone could sweep this).

But, Lance is a champion for two regions and the previous second place in the tournament, chances are mostly on his side, even if I’m not eager to see him lose to Leon. Again.

I’m on Team Diantha, anyway.

I hope Lance wins. Diantha was underwhelming both in the XY games and anime, and Lance has that nostalgia bonus from the first seasons where he even attempted to take down Aqua/Magma (which really should’ve been handled by Steven/Wallace, but oh well).

I don’t want him to keep losing like that.

 

[MartínK]

I prefer Lance with Mega Aerodactyl or Mega Salamence instead of Mega Charizard Y but for the trailer we know that he is going to use Dynamax.

 

[janejane6178]

I prefer Lance with Mega Aerodactyl or Mega Salamence instead of Mega Charizard Y but for the trailer we know that he is going to use Dynamax.

Anything but Charizard would be fine with me

 

[Blood Red]

I'm starting to think I might be the only one who doesn't care who wins here. It's so heavily telegraphed that Leon will beat the winner anyway, so I don't really see the point in speculating who's gonna get fodderized by the Unbeatable Fashion Disaster. Now if they were to pull a surprise upset where Leon gets beaten by Alain, Lance or Diantha, maybe I'd care a bit more.

 

[janejane6178]

I'm starting to think I might be the only one who doesn't care who wins here. It's so heavily telegraphed that Leon will beat the winner anyway, so I don't really see the point in speculating who's gonna get fodderized by the Unbeatable Fashion Disaster. Now if they were to pull a surprise upset where Leon gets beaten by Alain, Lance or Diantha, maybe I'd care a bit more.

If Diantha wins we might get to see more of her Pokémon and more battles from her

 

[Blood Red]

If Diantha wins we might get to see more of her Pokémon and more battles from her

I don't really care about seeing her ultimately lose against Leon.

 

[MunchMunch]

This gives me Barry vs. Paul, Bianca vs. Cameron and Tierno vs. Sawyer vibes for some reason lol.

 

[Belowski]

I'm starting to think I might be the only one who doesn't care who wins here. It's so heavily telegraphed that Leon will beat the winner anyway, so I don't really see the point in speculating who's gonna get fodderized by the Unbeatable Fashion Disaster. Now if they were to pull a surprise upset where Leon gets beaten by Alain, Lance or Diantha, maybe I'd care a bit more.

It wouldn't be an "upset", it would just be lazy writing to throw out the battle that you've spent the last three years and past 115+ episodes hyping the audience up for

Ash VS Leon was always the only match that truly mattered; considering that they weren't even going to animate battles other than Ash's originally, the rest are just bonuses.

 

[TheNewGuy]

I don't think that counts as "lazy" writing.

You can make an argument for "bad writing" though I think there's something to be said for throwing off the narrative shackles and giving the tournament an "anyone can win" feel. Although I do think the simplest solution (Ash vs Leon in the final) is the best one sometimes.

 

[Belowski]

I don't think that counts as "lazy" writing.

You can make an argument for "bad writing" though I think there's something to be said for throwing off the narrative shackles and giving the tournament an "anyone can win" feel. Although I do think the simplest solution (Ash vs Leon in the final) is the best one sometimes.

Unpredictability should never be prioritized over the narrative

 

[nuzamaki90]

I know people dislike Ash-Greninja a lot and admittedly it's lore is weak, but it's canon. It's in the anime and its a staple. An inconsistent flashback doesn't retcon that.

I hate retcons because Bonnie clearly named the form, and everyone knew what it looked like, so to act like that all just never happened is stupid.

 

[TheNewGuy]

Unpredictability should never be prioritized over the narrative

I largely agree, but there are times when predictability becomes a shackle.

 

[DragonKahuna]

I am a fan of Lance since back in the early Gen 1 and 2 games. However, I would prefer just a bit more if Diantha would win here. Simply because we already had Lance vs Leon so what is the point of having it once more again. On the other hand Diantha is a character that we still can explore. I love both of their teams btw.

 

[Almighty Zard]

you can definitely tell Lance is grumpy compared to everyone else...he must really want another shot at Leon really bad.

 

[Blue Saturday]

I hate retcons because Bonnie clearly named the form, and everyone knew what it looked like, so to act like that all just never happened is stupid.

That reminds me that Go technically named the SatoPika-Z, Kukui named Dusk Lugarugan and Double Iron Bash.

In hindsight the retcon is funny in a meta sense where everyone in the series is playing along with Satoshi or Serena’s idealizing him as her hero and the frog was always just at base. Right up there with the coma theory. That means (Mega?) Battle Bond Lucario exist in some characters’ heads when they watch Satoshi.