June 10th: PM2019 114 - Fire Training Battle! Satoshi VS Shinji!!

[AuraChannelerChris]

More like Alain is fighting Leon to show G-Max Zard supremacy.

 

[Kuzehiko]

considering how much longer Iris has had her dragons than Ash's current two yet Ash beat hers with them, this really doesn't hold up so well as an argument.

I've said this before , but if time was the decisive factor on how long someone's owned a pokemon and that alone dictated it's strength and power, then people like Pryce (heck even Leon could fall under this since he's an adult) should be unbeatable due to their age and how long they've had their pokemon compared to Ash, but we all know that's not true.

Well, Ash caught Dragonite fully evolved tbf.
He also kind of trained it before it evolved. It is possible Dragonite was already that strong when it was a wild Pokemon

 

[DrewHLMW]

I can do without a rematch with Alain, I really dont want a match with Lance either, there's been enough satoshi vs dragons in this series already.

Steven or Diantha for me in the QF, Cynthia in the SF and Leon in the F

 

[Almighty Zard]

Well, Ash caught Dragonite fully evolved tbf.
He also kind of trained it before it evolved. It is possible Dragonite was already that strong when it was a wild Pokemon

I know quite a few people who still feel bitter about that fight due to how it went down because of Iris having her dragons longer, but i won't name anyone though.

he's trained Lucario and his other ones too, heck Greninja trained Lucario to gain better focus and synchronization with Ash.

the overall point remains, how long someone has had a pokemon is not a decisive factor of strength and believing that it can not be beaten, because of that were true then older trainers who've had their pokemon for decades should be untouchable by Ash, sure the pokemon need to be trained to an extent, but even so skill can overcome power with enough training.

 

[Sham]

I don't think Ash is going to battle Alain either (yay) lol

Basically and they don’t need a rematch. I think at best he’s battling Diantha or Iris

 

[AshxSatoshi]

If it’s a battle between with a Fire Type then what is Dragonite doing in the previews?

 

[Megapixel]

Remember that one episode of Journeys where they randomly brought back Infernape and mentioned that it wants to get stronger, and then the story literally did nothing with that? This would be a nice way to pick up that plot point and actually let Infernape fight strong opponents in PWC.

it would definitely be bad writing if they don't do anything with that "preparation".

 

[Megapixel]

If it’s a battle between with a Fire Type then what is Dragonite doing in the previews?

apparently he may learn a fire-type attack, he is the only one of ash's current team that can learn fire-type moves, although dragonite has already learned one of the most powerful Dragon-type moves... I don't know... I don't know convincing enough.

 

[Shadao]

Am I the only person who believes that Ash isn’t fighting Alain?

If the rumors are true and he’s fighting Lance then that would mean he’s only fighting Lance, Cynthia and Leon.

I believe that Diantha is Cynthia’s jobber and Steven is Leon’s jobber because if Iris and Alain face either of them they’re done for.

I think Iris and Alain fighting at least makes the battle even ground and the results ambiguous.

Also are we suppose to believe between this episode and the next he went all the way to Kalos via Paul’s advice and got Greninja? I don’t think they’re fighting.

I could be incorrect but I don’t think so here. I could see Alain being Ash’s Zoey

Because Alain is no ordinary rival. He's the rival that people specifically remember from XY for beating Ash in the Kalos League. And furthermore, it's a rival that a lot of fans want Ash to fight again and win.

This thread right showcases a double standard of expectation. When Paul showed up in the opening, what was the first reaction people had?

Paul is BACK! I hope Ash battles Paul again, that'll be so cool!

The very same Paul that won't be part of the Master 8 battles. Yet people want Ash and Paul to battle again regardless. Thus, it's a bit odd for people to insist that Alain would not battle Ash again for a rematch.

And let's be honest, if this was Dawn for World Grand Festival and Zoey is in the tournament, a lot of fans would want Dawn to finally beat Zoey. With Piplup no less. Should we call that a revenge plot or is it just wanting to Dawn become better and surpass her rivals as a rising star and protagonist?

 

[Ragnarok4]

I’d rather an original battle than just getting Greninja creaming Charizard because reasons.

The final of the Kalos League hurt me, but, I'm about to give an unpopular opinion...

In fact, I liked to see that Ash lost in the leagues, if I like something about the Pokémon anime, it is that the protagonist does not win everything, in a real competition you are not the only one trying hard, there are other guys and girls who are always trying to win the same as you, like harrison, tyson or paul. Alain won that battle, just get over it and congratulate him.

I would like a rematch but I find Gardevoir vs Greninja more interesting.

 

[Sham]

Because Alain is no ordinary rival. He's the rival that people specifically remember from XY for beating Ash in the Kalos League. And furthermore, it's a rival that a lot of fans want Ash to fight again and win.

This thread right showcases a double standard of expectation. When Paul showed up in the opening, what was the first reaction people had?

Paul is BACK! I hope Ash battles Paul again, that'll be so cool!

The very same Paul that won't be part of the Master 8 battles. Yet people want Ash and Paul to battle again regardless. Thus, it's a bit odd for people to insist that Alain would not battle Ash again for a rematch.

And let's be honest, if this was Dawn for World Grand Festival and Zoey is in the tournament, a lot of fans would want Dawn to finally beat Zoey. With Piplup no less. Should we call that a revenge plot or is it just wanting to Dawn become better and surpass her rivals as a rising star and protagonist?

I’d rather an original battle than just getting Greninja creaming Charizard because reasons. About Paul we knew this already by previews and if he does hopefully he defeats Ash and doesn’t get tossed around for his fans.

Also about your other points. I just don’t have that much investment in that. I don’t believe Alain stole, lied or cheated during the Kalos Conference and because of that don’t have any investment in it. Ash would still be a “rising star” by defeating Leon who’s objectively way stronger than Alain. In a matter of perspective I think there are just way better matchups. Also I never “insisted” anything I actually said “believe” a couple of times as in opinion.

Also I lessened this way more because tldr

 

[Shadao]

I don’t think it’s a double standard because I feel no ways about Paul returning. I also don’t care about Paul battling Ash. In fact I hope he does beat Ash here so his fans get some satisfaction and ends Ash’s horrible tirade of wins. Hopefully Paul isn’t tossed around like Champion/Champion tier people like Wallace, Iris and Raihan.

I wouldn’t really care if Dawn didn’t defeat Zoey if she won the entire thing because that’s indirectly defeating her either way. And I wouldn’t need a re do of the battle either with the same team. This technically happened in the context of the Wallace Cup but since you said WGF where there is a lot of competition who’s probably way stronger than Zoey then no. This is isolated from wanting Ash to be a “rising star” and “better” because he’s going to defeat Leon who’s undoubtedly stronger than Alain. This is more so about having it on paper that Ash defeated Alain.

I’d rather an original battle than just getting Greninja creaming Charizard because reasons. I don’t even think that’s true in real events. If you get beaten fairly then fine and you might have a chance of a rematch but if you don’t then you move on. Of course every person has different opinions and honestly idrc either way. He beats emo boy fine he doesn’t great.

The fact that Paul is battling Ash is proof enough that Ash fighting Alain is not out of the question. In fact, it's more of an inevitability. If Paul is fighting Ash, why not Alain?

As many stated before, there is no reason to bring back Alain unless Ash is going to fight him again. You could have brought back Alder for the Master 8. He's still around. Or maybe just have Flint. Once you bring back Alain again, you know what you're getting into.

I’d rather an original battle than just getting Greninja creaming Charizard because reasons. About Paul we knew this already by previews and if he does hopefully he defeats Ash and doesn’t get tossed around for his fans.

Also about your other points. I just don’t have that much investment in that. I don’t believe Alain stole, lied or cheated during the Kalos Conference and because of that don’t have any investment in it. Ash would still be a “rising star” by defeating Leon who’s objectively way stronger than Alain. In a matter of perspective I think there are just way better matchups.

Wanting better match ups is different from seeing the reality of the situation. Alain's inclusion in the Master 8 is rather odd since he could have been completely written out as being too busy to participate. Alain is also remembered as Ash's rival, particularly the one rival that Ash has yet to beat. So seeing Alain again in the Master 8 and knowing he could be Ash's potential opponent? That is screaming they would fight again.

Even those who don't want another Alain rematch know what the implications are to have Alain in the Master 8.

 

[Sham]

The fact that Paul is battling Ash is proof enough that Ash fighting Alain is not out of the question. In fact, it's more of an inevitability. If Paul is fighting Ash, why not Alain?

As many stated before, there is no reason to bring back Alain unless Ash is going to fight him again. You could have brought back Alder for the Master 8. He's still around. Or maybe just have Flint. Once you bring back Alain again, you know what you're getting into.



Wanting better match ups is different from seeing the reality of the situation. Alain's inclusion in the Master 8 is rather odd since he could have been completely written out as being too busy to participate. Alain is also remembered as Ash's rival, particularly the one rival that Ash has yet to beat. So seeing Alain again in the Master 8 and knowing he could be Ash's potential opponent? That is screaming they would fight again.

Even those who don't want another Alain rematch know what the implications are to have Alain in the Master 8.

Okay so you caught the “longer” version of this. So basically what I said was I used the words “believe” and “think” meaning I didn’t put much thought into him not fighting Alain. I don’t want it happening for the reasons I listed above.

I also agree that Alder could of been there and possibly Flint. I also think Alain being there off his own merits beyond being a jobber qualifies as well.

I think this “reality” is subjective. It’s a matter of perspective. I don’t need physical evidence of Ash beating Alain as vindication for his prowess. Again though that’s an individual thing.

Logically outside of Champions I don’t think it’s out of the ordinary why he’s here. Iris knocked out Flint but Alain was already established as being E4 level so it’s not jarring he’s there instead of Flint. Especially when you originally had a Gym Leader there.

 

[Almighty Zard]

The fact that Paul is battling Ash is proof enough that Ash fighting Alain is not out of the question. In fact, it's more of an inevitability.

that is abit of a stretch to claim this before we even know how things will go down.

Cause we don't know what they could end up doing in the masters 8, Ash could end up fighting Iris again for all we know.

 

[Shadao]

I think this “reality” is subjective. It’s a matter of perspective. I don’t need physical evidence of Ash beating Alain as vindication for his prowess. Again though that’s an individual thing.

Logically outside of Champions I don’t think it’s out of the ordinary why he’s here. Iris knocked out Flint but Alain was already established as being E4 level so it’s not jarring he’s there instead of Flint.

The reality is that Alain's inclusion in the Master 8 is going to make fans speculate if Ash is going to battle Alain again. And believe me, before the Master 8 list was leaked/revealed, no one was really expecting Alain of all people to come back. People thought Flint was going to be in the Master 8 or even Iris (as much as many fans here try to deny). Bringing back Alain is inevitably going to lead to talks about him fighting Ash again, and with Greninja episode just airing around that same time... Yeah, that inevitably leads to talks of Greninja coming back for a rematch.

That's on the anime team since no one could be oblivious to know Alain's significance to Ash's journey.

that is abit of a stretch to claim this before we even know how things will go down.

Cause we don't know what they could end up doing in the masters 8, Ash could end up fighting Iris again for all we know.

Paul's return came with a battle. A battle that is not really needed since he's not part of the Master 8, but many fans wanted because he's Paul and it would be a waste for Ash not to fight him.

The same applies to Alain. Is it necessary for Ash to fight Alain? No, but everyone knows that's what the people want. Even moreso than Paul because Ash has actually never beaten Alain yet.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Honestly if the writers cared about backlash this entire series (especially JN) would be different.

Explain how.

 

[Sham]

Explain how.

• Purposely shortening Ash’s and Serena’s interaction
• Revealing Iris as the Champion of Unova
• Goh catching Suicune
• Re editing the scenes of Serena (in the Bonnie and Clemont episode and her return episode apparently) and Ash Greninja

It’s left to be determined what’s going on with Greninja so I’m not claiming it “retconned” like others but you’re not telling me they were completely oblivious about the possible reactions with these choices to some extent.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Goh catching Suicune

Goh catching anything with ease. Period.

 

[Shadao]

• Purposely shortening Ash’s and Serena’s interaction
• Revealing Iris as the Champion of Unova
• Goh catching Suicune
• Re editing the scenes of Serena (in the Bonnie and Clemont episode and her return episode apparently) and Ash Greninja

It’s left to be determined what’s going on with Greninja so I’m not claiming it “retconned” like others but you’re not telling me they were completely oblivious about the possible reactions with these choices to some extent.

1. Considering that a lot of Amourshippers love that moment, I don't think that counts.
2. Iris is also beaten by Ash in that same episode, so it's not like Iris is suddenly a million miles ahead of him. Just on equal footing as they should be.
3. Honestly, Suicune rarely appears since its capture.
4. Considering that Serena was reserved for a surprise appearance literally the next episode, they knew what they were doing for the fans.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

1. Considering that a lot of Amourshippers love that moment, I don't think that counts.
2. Iris is also beaten by Ash in that same episode, so it's not like Iris is suddenly a million miles ahead of him. Just on equal footing as they should be.
3. Honestly, Suicune rarely appears since its capture.
4. Considering that Serena was reserved for a surprise appearance literally the next episode, they knew what they were doing for the fans.

Exactly. The only one that makes sense to @Sham’s point is Suicune