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June 11th: XY076 - The Wind, the Egg and the Noibat!

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Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
In terms of team creation it was.

So if I'm taking your words correct:
- Hoenn is crud because three had a Rock-type weakness, and only used STAB and Normal-type attacks
- Sinnoh is crud because it shared a few weaknesses among them (specified Ice, but that wasn't the case most of the time during the series)

But in Sinnoh, we clearly see that Ash is using tactics and has his pokemon use moves to overcome at least some their weaknesses:
- Staraptor: Weak to Electric, Ice and Rock -> Close Combat fixes the latter two.
- Buizel: Weak to Electric and Grass -> Ice Punch fixes the latter
- Gliscor: Weak to Water, Ice -> Stone Edge and Fire Fang fixes the latter
- Gible: Weak to Ice and Dragon -> Rock Smash covers the former and its STAB covers the latter.

So you use an excuse to diss Hoenn, but when said excuse isn't applicable to the next thing, you basically call it dull and uninspired? Yeah. Poor man's excuse.

You criticize teams for having overlapping weaknesses yet praise Best Wishes? Ash had four critters weak to Ice and Grass of all things! In any case your point about Best Wishes vs. other series is mute because those other series at least handled their regional teams to an extent, something that can't be said about Best Wishes.
 

Lord Ike

Well-Known Member
Again that's opinionated.In your scenario he basically treats pokemon as tools since the only reason he would catch them are for their typing.Are you really saying that if Pokemon were real you would choose the Pokemon based on their type and type alone instead of their personality or that said pokemon can fight against the type their weak against?
Pokemon are blank states until written. Literally anything can be chosen for his roster. And there's nothing wrong with seek a specific mon or type since that's his job as a trainer.

Do you know how many real battles there were shown in the anime?There was 2 against Gary,1 against Brock,2 against Giovanni and 1 against Mewtwo meaning 6 real full battles,the rest were either skipped or against grunts/nameless fodder.I already mentioned the problems in the final Giovanni and Gary match.Now let's talk about Brock,it took him 6 Pokemon to defeat Onix and even then the last part of the match where Charmander's scratch did more damage to Onix than it did against Geodude a weaker pokemon.And the Mewtwo battle where Mewtwo stomped all of his pokemon including one which was SE against it and a legendary,and was also stomping Charizard until friendship power came in and made Mega Charizard X stomp Mewtwo in return.That's basically all of the real battles that Red won being exactly how the main anime would have done it so do explain how it can be considered good timing when he won all of them exactly the same way .The only reason it was done less times was because it was way shorter and skipped nearly every other fight.
Which were plotted battles with a point a payoff. Battle against Brock? It makes sense because he had to weaken it. Mewtwo is the Post Boss, of course it's strong.

It only sidesteps logic and practicality if you are applying game logic to it
It's... it's the world of Pokemon, game mechanics are totally in effect because it's the law of their universe. Before it was hyberbole but here it's validated: We should just as well just spam thunder armor since we're not applying game logic!

Not really because not every episode is the same.
Then you are formula blind.

But seriously why in the world do you keep watching something that you clearly don't like.Most people usually just not watch it at all if they dislike something.
I've already responded to this.

So if I'm taking your words correct:
You're not

- Hoenn is crud because three had a Rock-type weakness, and only used STAB and Normal-type attacks
- Sinnoh is crud because it shared a few weaknesses among them (specified Ice, but that wasn't the case most of the time during the series)

But in Sinnoh, we clearly see that Ash is using tactics and has his pokemon use moves to overcome at least some their weaknesses:
- Staraptor: Weak to Electric, Ice and Rock -> Close Combat fixes the latter two.
- Buizel: Weak to Electric and Grass -> Ice Punch fixes the latter
- Gliscor: Weak to Water, Ice -> Stone Edge and Fire Fang fixes the latter
- Gible: Weak to Ice and Dragon -> Rock Smash covers the former and its STAB covers the latter.

So you use an excuse to diss Hoenn, but when said excuse isn't applicable to the next thing, you basically call it dull and uninspired? Yeah. Poor man's excuse.[/QUOTE]
There a difference between battle and writing. Criticism of Hoenn were towards battle (though there are few memorable Pokemon with personality too)
Sinnoh was mainly about writing, hence why Infernape is only truly memorable.

You criticize teams for having overlapping weaknesses yet praise Best Wishes? Ash had four critters weak to Ice and Grass of all things! In any case your point about Best Wishes vs. other series is mute because those other series at least handled their regional teams to an extent, something that can't be said about Best Wishes.
BW had a rotating roster and Pokemon with personality. The problem came down to the writing of Ash's character. Nice try.
 

ShinyCharyZard

Too old for your rubbish..
You criticize teams for having overlapping weaknesses yet praise Best Wishes? Ash had four critters weak to Ice and Grass of all things! In any case your point about Best Wishes vs. other series is mute because those other series at least handled their regional teams to an extent, something that can't be said about Best Wishes.

Pignite, Snivy, Leavanny and Scraggy were all weak to the Flying type too, ouch..
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
Hiding behind rotation to cover the weak spot in your argument. Ineffective rotation that left certain Pokémon starved of screen time yet left others hogging said screen time. But it's ok they covered weaknesses. Which is why said BW team ended up regressing him a rank I'm the League when he solely relied on them. Now if they'd been developed properly then that team would probably have equaled if not bettered the Sinnoh team.
 
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phanpycross

God-king
So if I'm taking your words correct:
- Hoenn is crud because three had a Rock-type weakness, and only used STAB and Normal-type attacks
- Sinnoh is crud because it shared a few weaknesses among them (specified Ice, but that wasn't the case most of the time during the series)

But in Sinnoh, we clearly see that Ash is using tactics and has his pokemon use moves to overcome at least some their weaknesses:
- Staraptor: Weak to Electric, Ice and Rock -> Close Combat fixes the latter two.
- Buizel: Weak to Electric and Grass -> Ice Punch fixes the latter
- Gliscor: Weak to Water, Ice -> Stone Edge and Fire Fang fixes the latter
- Gible: Weak to Ice and Dragon -> Rock Smash covers the former and its STAB covers the latter.

So you use an excuse to diss Hoenn, but when said excuse isn't applicable to the next thing, you basically call it dull and uninspired? Yeah. Poor man's excuse.

You criticize teams for having overlapping weaknesses yet praise Best Wishes? Ash had four critters weak to Ice and Grass of all things! In any case your point about Best Wishes vs. other series is mute because those other series at least handled their regional teams to an extent, something that can't be said about Best Wishes.

While i find this entire discussion really silly (I honestly dont find type advantage prominent enough in the anime to be worth this discussion), I would like to say that BW actually did rather well in not being overly weak to anything. Every type had at least something in the BW team that beat it, and usually more than one.

Hiding behind rotation to cover the weak spot in your argument. Ineffective rotation that left certain Pokémon starved of screen time yet left others hogging said screen time. But it's ok they covered weaknesses. Which is why said BW team ended up regressing him a rank I'm the League when he solely relied on them.

Pretty sure we were not talking about neither screentime nor actual battle-power, just that Ash's BW team did a great job covering each other's weaknesses.

and top 8 isnt that bad a rank considering he didnt use reserves.

that being said, this is a fairly null discussion considering how little type advantage actually matters in the anime.
 
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Lord Ike

Well-Known Member
Hiding behind rotation to cover the weak spot in your argument. Ineffective rotation that left certain Pokémon starved of screen time yet left others hogging said screen time. But it's ok they covered weaknesses. Which is why said BW team ended up regressing him a rank I'm the League when he solely relied on them.
It's not a weak spot. Frankly the only mon who really was robbed of screentime was Palpitoad. Ash had more Pokemon, type coverage, and diverse characters than ever seen previously.
Oh Ash regressed a rank after the league where he combined both old and new Pokemon. So what you're saying saying is either he had the most type coverage he ever had in a league or he used his old and more trained Pokemon. Please take your pick, because the Top 4 achievement did not come from his Sinnoh team alone.
 

ShinyCharyZard

Too old for your rubbish..
Oh god please let Ash's final Pokemon be Bergmite, Vivillon or a returning Charizard. The meltdown people would have about the rock weakness would be so entertaining.. maybe even more entertaining than the show itself.

I cannot wait to see what moves Noibat is packing besides Screech. I hope it ends up varied like Gliscor..
 

Captain America X

Well-Known Member
Pokemon are blank states until written. Literally anything can be chosen for his roster. And there's nothing wrong with seek a specific mon or type since that's his job as a trainer.


Which were plotted battles with a point a payoff. Battle against Brock? It makes sense because he had to weaken it. Mewtwo is the Post Boss, of course it's strong.


It's... it's the world of Pokemon, game mechanics are totally in effect because it's the law of their universe. Before it was hyberbole but here it's validated: We should just as well just spam thunder armor since we're not applying game logic!


Then you are formula blind.


I've already responded to this.

If anything can be chosen for his ratio why can't he have 3 flying types that have an additional type that's different and have a completely different battlestyle.Oh wait,because you don't like it and that's bad.And what if he wants to have pokemon of that specific type is it bad?The E4 have a complete team of pokemon of the exact same type yet their the strongest in their respective region.

See that's not my point about Origin.You said that Origin had good timing with all of their fights.Do you wanna know why?Because all of the fights were plotted fights literally all 4 of the battles he took part in and won was exactly how the main anime would have handle it if it was done there.If Origins was turned into a long running anime like XY than most of the battles would have been exactly like those 4 battles I told you about.it had nothing to do with timing,they just crammed everything into the special and only showed the more important ones.

Also are you seriously saying it makes sense that Charmander's scratch against Onix did way more damage than 2 of his scratches against Geodude even-though Geodude was by far a lot weaker.And your also saying it makes sense that a Mewtwo that easily destroyed 5 of Red's previous pokemon(including one that was SE and a Legendary) and also was destroying Charizard lost because of Mega Evo that for some reason made Charizard so strong that it was capable of stomping Mewtwo?

Except for the fact that some game logic would never ever work in a real life scenario.In the game if a Charmander was hit by a Hydro Pump it would be knocked out.But if it was a real life scenario it would have still continued fighting because of sheer determination.In a game every single thing can be counted like their stats and the damage dealt.But that ain't happening in a real life scenario.As DEM as Thunder Armor was it can actually be explained by Guts and that Swellow could tank electric type attacks rather easily.Also it can't be spammed since it requires both Pikachu(or any other electric type) and Swellow to be on the same team in the fight.

How am I formula blind?Are you saying that XY 1 and XY 3 were exactly the same?Was XY 7 and XY 70 exactly the same?If your saying their the same than your the blind one.

You've responded to it but it still makes no sense.Just because your family watches it doesn't mean that you have to watch it and complain about it just because their not following the format that you want.If you don't like it than just avoid it.

Just forget this.Just agree to disagree.
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
Oh god please let Ash's final Pokemon be Bergmite, Vivillon or a returning Charizard. The meltdown people would have about the rock weakness would be so entertaining.. maybe even more entertaining than the show itself.

I cannot wait to see what moves Noibat is packing besides Screech. I hope it ends up varied like Gliscor..
I'm betting Screech, Bite, Gust, and Draco Meteor as the initial moveset. IMO it'll evolve and the final moveset will be Boomburst, Hurricane, Draco Meteor, and a Variable Move for the last. That's the beauty about this so called "repetitive 3rd Flying -Type" its 4th move could be anything. It has variety from Bug, Dark, Normal, Psychic, Electric, Fire, Poison, Fighting, Ghost, Grass, Steel, Water in its possible learnset whether naturally, via TM or Move Tutor (all of which are valid in the anime)
 
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Captain America X

Well-Known Member
Oh god please let Ash's final Pokemon be Bergmite, Vivillon or a returning Charizard. The meltdown people would have about the rock weakness would be so entertaining.. maybe even more entertaining than the show itself.

I cannot wait to see what moves Noibat is packing besides Screech. I hope it ends up varied like Gliscor..

How fun would that be to see.

I'd go with Screech,Draco Meteor,Air Cutter and Leech Life/Bite
 

Lord Ike

Well-Known Member
If anything can be chosen for his ratio why can't he have 3 flying types that have an additional type that's different and have a completely different battlestyle.Oh wait,because you don't like it and that's bad.And what if he wants to have pokemon of that specific type is it bad?The E4 have a complete team of pokemon of the exact same type yet their the strongest in their respective region.
Ash isn't a type specialist like the Elite 4. Flying types have terrible visual aesthetic and wind up looking more or the less the same. Fletchinder and Hawlucha are both birds but have different body shaping. Hawlucha and Noibat/vern have different species but similar body shaping. So yes it's bad.

See that's not my point about Origin.You said that Origin had good timing with all of their fights.Do you wanna know why?Because all of the fights were plotted fights literally all 4 of the battles he took part in and won was exactly how the main anime would have handle it if it was done there.If Origins was turned into a long running anime like XY than most of the battles would have been exactly like those 4 battles I told you about.it had nothing to do with timing,they just crammed everything into the special and only showed the more important ones.
They are not the same. Origin knew it's timespan and plotted effective importance. The main anime doesn't and does pick-and-choose its placement. Also since Origins isn't expanded you can't comment on its other battle styles if it were because you know jack**** about it.

Also are you seriously saying it makes sense that Charmander's scratch against Onix did way more damage than 2 of his scratches against Geodude even-though Geodude was by far a lot weaker.And your also saying it makes sense that a Mewtwo that easily destroyed 5 of Red's previous pokemon(including one that was SE and a Legendary) and also was destroying Charizard lost because of Mega Evo that for some reason made Charizard so strong that it was capable of stomping Mewtwo?
Are you blind? Of course it does. Scratch against the weaker pokemon doing more damage, the rest of the team weaking an opponent, Mega Evolution turning the tide of a battle. Where have you been?

Except for the fact that some game logic would never ever work in a real life scenario.In the game if a Charmander was hit by a Hydro Pump it would be knocked out.But if it was a real life scenario it would have still continued fighting because of sheer determination.In a game every single thing can be counted like their stats and the damage dealt.But that ain't happening in a real life scenario.As DEM as Thunder Armor was it can actually be explained by Guts and that Swellow could tank electric type attacks rather easily.Also it can't be spammed since it requires both Pikachu(or any other electric type) and Swellow to be on the same team in the fight.
Yet you ignore the tail flame as part of "real life". Guts does not validate Thunder Armor; it wasn't paralyzed.

How am I formula blind?Are you saying that XY 1 and XY 3 were exactly the same?Was XY 7 and XY 70 exactly the same?If your saying their the same than your the blind one.
Early episodes try to distinguish themselves from later episode before falling into formula. As for choosing one of the few actual plotworthy episodes as comparative, come on.

You've responded to it but it still makes no sense.Just because your family watches it doesn't mean that you have to watch it and complain about it just because their not following the format that you want.If you don't like it than just avoid it.
It makes absolute sense. Living life for avoidance of the anime is even dumber if it inconveniences whatever I'm doing. The fact is, you're trying to to invalidate my criticisms because I don't like the show in its current state. Not matter what you say, it doesn't change I know what's happening and can cite its flaws.
 

Illusio

No words, only rage
Honestly, the type balance thing never bothered me. Just as long as the Pokémon are portrayed and do well, then I see no problem with having multiple types on a team for the show.

So if you don't enjoy it, you shouldn't critique it because you shouldn't know anything about the show. If you do enjoy the show, you shouldn't critique because it would be sad. Smooth

The issue here is there's a much better way of critiquing something then what you're doing now. You're going too far with your points that even those that agree with you are calling you out, and you are coming across as rather rude. Sometimes you just need to say what you want to say and leave it at that, you can't constantly berate something as eventually you just lose whoever is listening to you.
 
I've been reading the past pages of type overlap complaining, and honestly, I could care less about what they do. As long as their personalities are unique and/or enjoyable, I don't see a problem with having three flying types. We know he's going to have 8 badges eventually, and unless he pulls and AG and only uses the pokes he catches this region+pika, he likely won't be carrying three flying types at the same time in a 6v6 at the league.
 
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Vincentium

Beyond Evolution
I'm new to the forums yet I am fully aware that this Lorde Ike guy breathes with his expert critiques around here. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I'm about as tired as you guys are on how he just wants to destroy and complain about the whole anime even though there's really no point in doing so (our words are just as irrelevant as his are). Getting really repetitive, so you guys should just leave him run around unless he imposes his well-thought out opinion on you.

I'm disappointed that Ash is getting Noibat, though. I really am. Although it might have some colorful personality with it, which is something I'd look forward to.
 
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dp045

Well-Known Member
Good as happened with the new look of Serena many do not like the idea (including me) but I finally saw and am very well so despite the inclusion of Noibat team Ash it may be for the better perhaps even evolve and have some good and varied movements (as Gliscor).
 

Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
I'm disappointed that Ash is getting Noibat, though. I really am. Although it might have some colorful personality with it, which is something I'd look forward to.

I am actually glad that Ash is getting Noibat. I had a feeling it was coming his way and Serena doesn't deserve or require it. Noibat would be a good addition to Ash's team and if it evolves, it can lose the crybaby phase and become mature as a result. I am disappointed with Goodra's release but I hope it comes back. If not, Noibat/Noivern is still a great pokemon for Ash to have.
 

Vincentium

Beyond Evolution
I am actually glad that Ash is getting Noibat. I had a feeling it was coming his way and Serena doesn't deserve or require it. Noibat would be a good addition to Ash's team and if it evolves, it can lose the crybaby phase and become mature as a result. I am disappointed with Goodra's release but I hope it comes back. If not, Noibat/Noivern is still a great pokemon for Ash to have.

I realized that, too, after seeing that is a crybaby-type of character in the team. It has a high possibility of evolving (which would be cool), but I wish Ash would have gotten something more unique in terms of typing (like straight off a Fairy-type, although that is probably asking too much) like Ghost, Psychic, or Steel (I remember I got pretty excited with his team in Unova and Sinnoh), or a species not close to what he has right now. Now I am really wondering who the last member of his team will be. I don't think I'd be disappointed anymore.
 

Mr. Reloaded

Cause a pirate is free
I just don't like the cry baby aspect of Noibat.

Other then that it's just fine.
 

Ultimate Puppyshipper

#1 Puppyshipper
I love the Serena is getting Eevee as it just fits her so well. I like that it wants to preform just like Pancham did. I love Noibat being a baby it's cute and gives not only ash a chance to take care of it but bonnie as well.
 

WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
I am looking forward this crybaby Noibat cause it bring out the papa in Ash. I miss that part of Ash's character from DP. I guess Goomy resurrected it a bit.
 
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