June 17th: PM2019 115 - The Curtain Rises! The Masters Tournament!!

[GarchompTheAssassin]

Now that we know that AG won’t reappear… what was the point of excluding that form from that flashback? This is not something like the GS Ball that can easily be retconned, AG was, together with Team Flare, the major plot point in XYZ. They can’t erase all of this.

And for the sake of argument, let’s assume they did: What would the implications be? Did Ash seriously blast his way through Wulfric and the entire Kalos league and nearly defeated Alain with just a base Greninja? Ridiculous, really…

I can't rationalize it at all; it can't have been an oversight because they removed AG from two different frames that it should've been in, and even the possibility of a retcon becomes confusing when there was a very clear allusion to it with Ash describing it to Goh

 

[Bortgreen]

We see Iris using her magic powers with Haxorus so maybe that's the final psuh needed before he disfigures megachomp.

If Iris loses after using her magic power twice then dump that lol.

Did this magic power ever appear in BW? Didn't watch it
Or foreshadowed at least

 

[Power Up]

I can't rationalize it at all; it can't have been an oversight because they removed AG from two different frames that it should've been in, and even the possibility of a retcon becomes confusing when Ash makes a very clear allusion to it when describing it to Goh

No, that part makes much more sense when you look at how they transposed it with Lucario. It seems like they've essentially turned the it into something resembling aura, only it doesn't make sense at all with Greninja with the way it does for Lucario.

 

[Dragneelo]

Did this magic power ever appear in BW? Didn't watch it
Or foreshadowed at least

It was shown when Cynthia tamed Iris dragonite and told him to respect Iris as a trainer

 

[WaterShuriken]

It’s still really baffling to me that JN brought back Ash’s two strongest rivals and one isn’t in the PWC for no reason and the other gets jobbed out immediately, no rematch or fanfare.

I’m sorry it’s just gonna continue to bug me how much of a waste of time and animation Alan ended up being. Along with the (now very likely) Ash Greninja retcon just seems like a giant middle finger to anyone wanting closure to that rivalry. If fan service has a opposite this would definitely be it.

I won’t b*itch about this anymore I swear it’s just, man you don’t write a scenario this unsatisfying and waste heaps of potential unless you had something to prove

Ash vs Alain in the Masters Eight wouldn't be closure it would just be revenge. Ash and Alain's rivalry reached closure at the end of XYZ. Alain admitted that while he beat Ash in battle, Ash beat him where it mattered, as a person.

Alain holds no importance to Ash's personal journey anymore.

While Ash vs Alain would have pleased some people for others, like myself, it would just feel like pandering. So, Ash never was able to beat him in battle, oh well, sometimes you can't win at everything in life. Now it's gonna be Alain's turn to lose to the writer's favorite of the current series.

I would have said a similar thing if it was Ash vs Iris as well. We don't need to thread old paths.

Lance, Steven, or Diantha would have been great matchups for Ash since he never had "official" battles with them. I was hoping for Diantha but we got Steven instead and now it makes sense. They ended up cutting into Chloe and Serena's episode with Ash vs Wallace and Wallace so upset that Ash remembered Steven and not him, clearly remembering what they went through in Kalos.

 

[Stone Dragon]

Iris vs Cynthia is the only match up happening from the ones I wanted. Still questioning why Ash vs Steven and Lance vs Diantha. I dont see any difference when they just switch, plus then they have connections on top of that. It's not like they used one or the other for another important battle, it's just against Diantha lol

 

[Joltik-Kid]

So are these 3 on 3 matches or not?

 

[Shneak]

These matchups seem kind of random, besides Iris vs Cynthia. There's really no dynamic between Ash/Steven and Leon/Alain but I'm interested to see a Cradily and Aurorus in action. Alain also using Mairin's ace is sweet.

It would be iconic of Diantha beat Lance.

 

[TurboAceK]

I think the matchups are a bit weird
I also think there wasn't a tournament bracket layout that would have satisfied everyone

As having certain matchups excludes other matchups

For Alain I would have loved a battle vs Steven or Ash or even Diantha
I however think having him lose to the best is a decent way for him to lose as his whole thing was about being the strongest and now he has the chance to battle him

Iris gets to battle her idol so win or lose that was a nice built up battle and fits in with Iris’s character arc imo

Diantha vs Lance no thoughts but a pretty Pokemon vs monstrous Pokemon can be fun

Ash vs Steven no real thoughts but I think the idea of Ash against the top 3 is a good idea on paper as him going against the very best can be hype


Also Hop appearing is nice I wonder if he’s a be trainer as he still had Wooloo or is experienced and just didn't evolve Wooloo for a similar Ash and Pikachu reaskn

Ash and Iris being the kids in the Masters 8 is fun to see and also highlights their similarities

Alain vs Leon should be interesting as we will at least see Mega Charizard against normal Charizard a bit, and I feel this will he the battle to let audience and Ash know this is no joke by seeing Alain someone he never beaten lose first

 

[Power Up]

Ash vs Alain in the Masters Eight wouldn't be closure it would just be revenge. Ash and Alain's rivalry reached closure at the end of XYZ. Alain admitted that while he beat Ash in battle, Ash beat him where it mattered, as a person.

Alain holds no importance to Ash's personal journey anymore.

I actually don't mind Ash vs Alain not happening and never have since it something I've been expecting for a while, but even just accepting that premise, this post has nothing to do with even specifically addressing why Alain's handling/inclusion is so problematic.

From the looks of it:

- Alain is not even going to be interacting with Ash
- There's no G-Max vs MCX
- The battle is going to be incredibly rushed
- Alain's going to get his sh*t pushed in.

If you wanted to be actually respectful to Alain and actually come at his character in the correct way, he would face Steven first since they actually have a dynamic/relationship and have him win there before losing to Alain.

However, everything in your first paragraph is still fundamentally flawed when you look at it from the aspect of arguing for Ash vs Alain. There's nothing at the end of XY precluding JN from an Ash vs Alain rematch, similar to how there was nothing in Paul's character arc(given that it similarly ended) that precluded Journeys from having a battle between him and Ash and showcasing their growth. Ash and Alain promised to battle at the end of XY for f*ck's sake. Alain wanted to battle Ash again after truly earning his Mega Stone and being free from Lysandre's grasp

I can imagine a completely comprehensible narrative rematch in which the writers weren't unimaginable hacks centered around that. It's incredibly simple.

I didn't comment on it earlier, but this weird and dishonestly in how people portray Ash and Alain's relationship and their rivalry is incredibly weird to me.

While Ash vs Alain would have pleased some people for others, like myself, it would just feel like pandering. So, Ash never was able to beat him in battle, oh well, sometimes you can't win at everything in life. Now it's gonna be Alain's turn to lose to the writer's favorite of the current series.

This series is pandering 101, except it fails miserably at doing so majorly for some reason with XY.

 

[GarchompTheAssassin]

No, that part makes much more sense when you look at how they transposed it with Lucario. It seems like they've essentially turned the it into something resembling aura, only it doesn't make sense at all with Greninja with the way it does for Lucario.

Which part makes sense? Even if they altered Bond Phenomenon to be Aura related now - that in itself is whatever - why is base Greninja in those flashback frames where it shouldn't have been?

 

[Red and Blue]

I love that Ash has an opportunity to meet and catch up with the other Master Class trainers before the competition starters.

 

[Akkipeddi]

This series is pandering 101, except it fails miserably at doing so majorly for some reason with XY.

B-but this series has tons of XY favoritism though....

 

[Belowski]

Iris gets a better reunion with Ash than Serena did

 

[GLTSRY]

I love that Ash has an opportunity to meet and catch up with the other Master Class trainers before the competition starters.

Besides the one trainer he was actually competing against once

 

[WaterShuriken]

B-but this series has tons of XY favoritism though....

Right. We got Korrina returning for a ranked match, gave Ash the Key Stone and assisted him getting a Lucarionite.

Clemont and Bonnie returned and helped Ash train for his battle against Elite Four Drasna.

Serena returned to help Chloe.

Greninja returned to help Lucario.

Alain returned as a member of the Masters Eight.

XY got so much acknowledged but then people complained. "YAY we got so and so back, eww but NOT like that."

Meanwhile, other series barely get anything. Other than Drake and the one mention of May, what else did AG get? Even Wallace and Steven are more from DP and XY, respectively.

 

[Power Up]

Right. We got Korrina returning for a ranked match, gave Ash the Key Stone and assisted him getting a Lucarionite.

Clemont and Bonnie returned and helped Ash train for his battle against Elite Four Drasna.

Serena returned to help Chloe.

Greninja returned to help Lucario.

Alain returned as a member of the Masters Eight.

XY got so much acknowledged but then people complained. "YAY we got so and so back, eww but NOT like that."

Meanwhile, other series barely get anything. Other than Drake and the one mention of May, what else did AG get? Even Wallace and Steven are more from DP and XY, respectively.

Oh yeah, just mention the skin-deep, surface level stuff and pass that off as substantial. Just ignore the fact that major tracts of XY were retconned like with Ash-Greninja, plagued with bad animation, and just horribly executed in general.

How dishonest can people get? I'd rather have AG level fanservice then what XY got in its supposed " pandering " that actively debased fundamental parts of XY.

 

[GLTSRY]

Even Wallace and Steven are more from DP and XY, respectively.

If you count the 2 champions of Hoenn as DP or XY characters… than that’s kinda your fault.

 

[Bortgreen]

Right. We got Korrina returning for a ranked match, gave Ash the Key Stone and assisted him getting a Lucarionite.

Clemont and Bonnie returned and helped Ash train for his battle against Elite Four Drasna.

Serena returned to help Chloe.

Greninja returned to help Lucario.

Alain returned as a member of the Masters Eight.

XY got so much acknowledged but then people complained. "YAY we got so and so back, eww but NOT like that."

Meanwhile, other series barely get anything. Other than Drake and the one mention of May, what else did AG get? Even Wallace and Steven are more from DP and XY, respectively.

Don't forget the appearance of two remaining E4 members

Oh yeah, just mention the skin-deep, surface level stuff and pass that off as substantial. Just ignore the fact that major tracts of XY were retconned like with Ash-Greninja, plagued with bad animation, and just horribly executed in general.

How dishonest can people get? I'd rather have AG level fanservice then what XY got in its supposed " pandering " that actively debased fundamental parts of XY.

We can't say these are surface level. Of course, they messed up right where they shouldn't, but we can't say XY wasn't pandered just because of that

 

[Power Up]

Don't forget the appearance of two remaining E4 members

We can't say these are surface level. Of course, they messed up right where they shouldn't, but we can't say XY wasn't pandered just because of that

I'm sorry, but I don't think you get credit for flopping the execution. I already said that XY was " pandered " to in the sense that they took its body and beat in into a corpse, leaving it a husk of its former self