June 27th: PM2023 101 - Fight! Terastallization VS Mega Evolution!!

[345ash-greninja]

In all this hypotheticals, terapagos is still a box legendary. Assuming its atleast near rayquaza it took 9 pokemon to rrmotely come close to beating rayquaza, so i dont think type mstters as much. Its dtill insanely strong.

I certainly don't think so at all, considering even Ursaring was able to inflict some notable damage to Pagogo & last battling against it for a reasonable period of time. If Terastal form Terapagos was even half as strong as the Black Rayquaza then Ursaring should have be one-hit KO'd in seconds, let alone inflicting any damage or Terapagos lol.

It can possibly be as strong as God-Tier legendaries like Rayquaza only if it activates its Stellar Form.....and that form isn't something Pagogo can activate any time at will.

 

[Decidueye23]

I certainly don't think so at all, considering even Ursaring was able to inflict some notable damage to Pagogo & last battling against it for a reasonable period of time. If Terastal form Terapagos was even half as strong as the Black Rayquaza then Ursaring should have be one-hit KO'd in seconds, let alone inflicting any damage or Terapagos lol.

It can possibly be as strong as God-Tier legendaries like Rayquaza only if it activates its Stellar Form.....and that form isn't something Pagogo can activate any time at will.

I mean thats like saying rayquaza is weeak because ceruledge and fuecoco were able to damage it. Last episode it didnt look like pagogo was fazed it all. Sure it took some hits but it didnt really weaken or anything

 

[Decidueye23]

I certainly don't think so at all, considering even Ursaring was able to inflict some notable damage to Pagogo & last battling against it for a reasonable period of time. If Terastal form Terapagos was even half as strong as the Black Rayquaza then Ursaring should have be one-hit KO'd in seconds, let alone inflicting any damage or Terapagos lol.

It can possibly be as strong as God-Tier legendaries like Rayquaza only if it activates its Stellar Form.....and that form isn't something Pagogo can activate any time at will.

And read my post clearly we were talking about the case when both trainers can go all out.

 

[345ash-greninja]

I mean thats like saying rayquaza is weeak because ceruledge and fuecoco were able to damage it. Last episode it didnt look like pagogo was fazed it all. Sure it took some hits but it didnt really weaken or anything

Yeah, that wasn't in an official battle where it was just one Pokemon battling another Pokemon. In wild raid battles where many Pokemon are taking on a single Pokemon, even a weak mon can inflict damage on a much stronger Pokemon because there it's many Pokemon together taking on a single Pokemon.

If Fuecoco or Ceruledge faced Rayquaza in a proper 1 vs 1 fight they would get crushed in an instant. Pagogo took on Ursaring in a proper 1 vs 1 battle and still took notable damage from Fury Cutter twice with Ursaring being able to block several of its Ancient Powers pretty comfortably so it's a very different case here which doesn't really end up being all that impressive.

 

[Decidueye23]

Yeah, that wasn't in an official battle where it was just one Pokemon battling another Pokemon. In wild raid battles where many Pokemon are taking on a single Pokemon, even a weak mon can inflict damage on a much stronger Pokemon because there it's many Pokemon together taking on a single Pokemon.

If Fuecoco or Ceruledge faced Rayquaza in a proper 1 vs 1 fight they would get crushed in an instant. Pagogo took on Ursaring in a proper 1 vs 1 battle and still took notable damage from Fury Cutter twice with Ursaring being able to block several of its Ancient Powers pretty comfortably so it's a very different case here which doesn't really end up being all that impressive.

I mean why are you assuming katy's ursaring is a weak mon, katy did go toe to toe with rika... and pagogo didnt really take any damage lol

 

[Decidueye23]

Yeah, that wasn't in an official battle where it was just one Pokemon battling another Pokemon. In wild raid battles where many Pokemon are taking on a single Pokemon, even a weak mon can inflict damage on a much stronger Pokemon because there it's many Pokemon together taking on a single Pokemon.

If Fuecoco or Ceruledge faced Rayquaza in a proper 1 vs 1 fight they would get crushed in an instant. Pagogo took on Ursaring in a proper 1 vs 1 battle and still took notable damage from Fury Cutter twice with Ursaring being able to block several of its Ancient Powers pretty comfortably so it's a very different case here which doesn't really end up being all that impressive.

Also ceruledge was able to block draco meteor once. Does that make rayquaza weak af?

 

[Decidueye23]

Also just to clarify, i dont think any of them is really stronger than the other. All of them are as strong as the plot demands them to be.
Just a few episodes after roy beat liko , he lost against Geeta and Liko wont. He wanst able to keep up with zygarde but liko could.
Propping up any of them to be stronger than the other feels redundant.

I'm just arguing cuz people will literally go above and beyond to say liko is weak even if she has a legendary

 

[Kazuniya]

I'm just arguing cuz people will literally go above and beyond to say liko is weak even if she has a legendary

Remember these associations:

Liko = weak and lame
Roy = chad, cool and strong

These simple keywords will help you get along with certain people.

 

[Sham]

I'm just arguing cuz people will literally go above and beyond to say liko is weak even if she has a legendary

I never said she was weak though. I mean I could ask how is her inheriting a legendary from a relative that she has yet to train on screen, carry most of her battles a good thing but I won't go there. You taking me saying Roy is the strongest and that Terapogos is potentially saving her team if they get into a battle=/=calling her weak.

I certainly don't think so at all, considering even Ursaring was able to inflict some notable damage to Pagogo & last battling against it for a reasonable period of time. If Terastal form Terapagos was even half as strong as the Black Rayquaza then Ursaring should have be one-hit KO'd in seconds, let alone inflicting any damage or Terapagos lol.

Honestly the Black Rayquaza comparison was just crazy to begin with because the show never put them on equal footing. Even in scenes where damage was done to Rayquaza in the beginning it was at most notable flinching but it easily got back on its feet (tail?) and handled business. Not to mention if we're doing a 1:1 comparison, the group was actively dodging Rayquaza's attacks since it would be an automatic KO (which is why when he used Draco Meteor in the final battle it took them all out) meanwhile Katy was handling Ancient Power and countering it. Not sure where it's implied they're the same.

I'd say it killed it already, ever since then I have suspended all my belief in realism for this anime and any sort of semblance to powerscaling, it was the death of realistic growth for the MC's for me and honestly made me less invested in them, coz now they are just as strong as the plot needs them to be, it be damned whether it makes sense or not. As horrible as the Ashnime was at times with it's powerscaling it was never this bad but I digress.

I am thankful that for the most part they have retained a bit of power scaling since then but yeah having them struggle against Gym Leaders, only to defeat the Champion in the next arc directly will never make full sense to me if I'm being honest.

she's been holding back the entire series. In her debut, she only had Pawmo, like her in-game status of having already defeated Omadaka, conquered the League, and being the strongest at the academy. She caught Pawmot and built a new team just to fairly challenge the player.

In her second appearance, she battles Roy and even says she won’t use Terastallization to keep things fair, yet still manages to beat Hogator with just Pawmot. She’s a Goku-like character, obsessed with facing opponents who continue to grow stronger, so of course she’d get hyped over something like a Mega Evolved opponent. But even if it beats her, that wouldn't end the rivalry. It just means Roy can now properly beat Pawmot in a fair fight.

A strong rivalry can have some back-and-forth, not domination like Satoshi vs. Shinji, which had draws and even a PokeRinger win for Satoshi. Their final clash could be a 3v3, 4v4, or even a full 6v6 (if the writers ever go that route again), with Nemo bringing out her true long-term powerhouses. Given it’s been a year and Roy has shown steady growth pre-timeskip, if they keep it a clean 1v1 with no self-sacrificing cop-outs, Nemo can take a loss without being put on fraud watch like Omadaka.

I actually forgot about this small fact that she has technically been playing with kids gloves this entire time! I think honestly they'll most likely go the tie route like Ash vs Bea and then have their final battle really be the conclusion where he takes on a full win. Not making lopsided as you said. That being said at least there is structural basis for Roy landing that potential win with his training as you said and him being able to access a new gimmick unlike the previous Champion match where from what we were told they really only trained with the Hero's and that was it.

 

[Decidueye23]

I never said she was weak though. I mean I could ask how is her inheriting a legendary from a relative that she has yet to train on screen, carry most of her battles a good thing but I won't go there. You taking me saying Roy is the strongest and that Terapogos is potentially saving her team if they get into a battle=/=calling her weak.


Honestly the Black Rayquaza comparison was just crazy to begin with because the show never put them on equal footing. Even in scenes where damage was done to Rayquaza in the beginning it was at most notable flinching but it easily got back on its feet (tail?) and handled business. Not to mention if we're doing a 1:1 comparison, the group was actively dodging Rayquaza's attacks since it would be an automatic KO (which is why when he used Draco Meteor in the final battle it took them all out) meanwhile Katy was handling Ancient Power and countering it. Not sure where it's implied they're the same.

I am thankful that for the most part they have retained a bit of power scaling since then but yeah having them struggle against Gym Leaders, only to defeat the Champion in the next arc directly will never make full sense to me if I'm being honest.


I actually forgot about this small fact that she has technically been playing with kids gloves this entire time! I think honestly they'll most likely go the tie route like Ash vs Bea and then have their final battle really be the conclusion where he takes on a full win. Not making lopsided as you said. That being said at least there is structural basis for Roy landing that potential win with his training as you said and him being able to access a new gimmick unlike the previous Champion match where from what we were told they really only trained with the Hero's and that was it.

Comparision isnt really crazy because pagogo was weakened at that point and it was still recovering. Thr battle you're talking about is the raid against rayquaza. I'm talkibg about eoisode 33 when ceruledge went against rayquaza and epiaode 46 when fuecoco headbutted it.

Also, pagogo barely flinched last battle. Katy is also a really strong trainer... (dont come at me i mean al gym leaders are)

As for her inheriting a legendary, thats not relevant to hrr strength. Thats a seperate argument. But considering you dont have an issue with roy getting lucario offscreen and ME i wonder why would it be bad thing for her to get a pokemon that actively chose her ( the pendant didnt activate eith diana or luca) so terapagos chose liko and we've seen her bond with it and take care if it for over 80 episodes.. so..

 

[345ash-greninja]

I mean why are you assuming katy's ursaring is a weak mon, katy did go toe to toe with rika... and pagogo didnt really take any damage lol

Yes it certainly did, the first hit from Fury Cutter clearly sent Pagogo flying backwards.

I never said Katy's Ursaring was a weak mon, but it isn't some highly trained & battle-hardened veteran mon either so taking notable damage from it still does prove that Pagogo is absolutely nowhere remotely near Rayquaza's level whatsoever.

Also ceruledge was able to block draco meteor once. Does that make rayquaza weak af?

There is huge difference between blocking only one meteor amidst several ones in a Draco Meteor attack and comfortably blocking an opponent's move not just once but several times. Ursaring was fully able to block the Ancient Powers head on using its moves multiple times and comparing that to Ceruledge blocking only one meteor amidst several ones that come out in a Draco Meteor attack is like comparing night and day.

 

[Decidueye23]

Yes it certainly did, the first hit from Fury Cutter clearly sent Pagogo flying backwards.

I never said Katy's Ursaring was a weak mon, but it isn't some highly trained & battle-hardened veteran mon either so taking damage from it still does prove that Pagogo is absolutely nowhere remotely near Rayquaza's level whatsoever.


There is huge difference between blocking only one meteor amidst several ones in a Draco Meteor attack and comfortably blocking an opponent's move not just once but several times. Ursaring was fully able to block the Ancient Powers head on using its moves and comparing that to Ceruledge blocking only one meteor amidst several ones that come out in a Draco Meteor attack is like comparing night and day.

Pagogo flying back is the same as rayquaza flinching against fuecocos headbutt. At the end it barely took any actual damage. Also ceruledge was able to land multiple moves as well.

All i' saying is Pagogo is a legwndary and at full power its insanely strong. Like we've seen it contian a whole island of rakurium. Thats insane stremgth. So lets not downplay its strenght.

 

[Kazuniya]

But considering you dont have an issue with roy getting lucario offscreen and ME i wonder why would it be bad thing for her to get a pokemon that actively chose her ( the pendant didnt activate eith diana or luca) so terapagos chose liko and we've seen her bond with it and take care if it for over 80 episodes.. so..

It's called hypocrisy and double standards.

 

[Sham]

As for her inheriting a legendary, thats not relevant to hrr strength. Thats a seperate argument. But considering you dont have an issue with roy getting lucario offscreen and ME i wonder why would it be bad thing for her to get a pokemon that actively chose her.

Well cause Roy already showed his Pokemon are stronger than her’s (both of them taking out both of her Pokemon each) prior to her obtaining Terapagos but you’re saying her acquiring it turns the tide around meaning she can beat him. He’s already defeated her without Mega Lucario and technically never used it on her but you’re arguing Terapogos can wreck his team or do majority of the pulling.

 

[Decidueye23]

Well cause Roy already showed his Pokemon are stronger than her’s (both of them taking out both of her Pokemon each) prior to her obtaining Terapagos but you’re saying her acquiring it turns the tide around meaning she can beat him. He’s already defeated her without Mega Lucario and technically never used it on her but you’re arguing Terapogos can wreck his team or do majority of the pulling.

Well tbf, the previous time roy took her out after which he lost against geeta while she won. And the second time she was depressed lol. Which means even if you remove ME and Terapagos. They are really close in power

And your comment was about how its a good thing. Never said it was good or bad. I said its a thing that has happened. How you feel about it doesnt change that its still true

 

[345ash-greninja]

Pagogo flying back is the same as rayquaza flinching against fuecocos headbutt. At the end it barely took any actual damage. Also ceruledge was able to land multiple moves as well.

All i' saying is Pagogo is a legwndary and at full power its insanely strong. Like we've seen it contian a whole island of rakurium. Thats insane stremgth. So lets not downplay its strenght.

I repeat again, Rayquaza fought several Pokemon together like what happens in a wild raid battle unlike Pagogo who faced Ursaring in a proper 1 vs 1 battle. Does taking damage while battling several Pokemon all at once compare to taking damage in a normal 1 vs 1 fight, a proper battle secnario?

I'm just trying to point out the obvious that Terastal form Terapagos is certainly not on Rayquaza's level, that's all. You can argue whatever way you want but that's just too unrealistic based on how the anime has depicted them so far. I am also admitting this much that in its Stellar Form Pagogo could possibly reach Rayquaza's level, but trying to argue that its on par with Rayquaza in its Terastal form is just blowing things out of proportion.

 

[Decidueye23]

I repeat again, Rayquaza fought several Pokemon together like what happens in a wild raid battle unlike Pagogo who faced Ursaring in a proper 1 vs 1 battle. Does taking damage while battling several Pokemon all at once compare to taking damage in a normal 1 vs 1 fight, a proper battle secnario?

I'm just trying to point out the obvious that Terastal form Terapagos is certainly not on Rayquaza's level, that's all. You can argue whatever way you want but that's just too unrealistic based on how the anime has drpicted them so far I am also admitting this much that in its Stellar Form Pagogo could possibly reach Rayquaza's level, but trying to argue that its on par with Rayquaza in its Terastal form is just blowing things out of proportion.

Rayquaza fought ceruledge 1 : 1 for the most part... until... wait a min terapgos stepped in to counter it.

 

[MartínK]

@Dephender Can yo do something to stop this fight? It's the same in every threads with the same users and i'm tired of this.

 

[Veedramon]

I've read through the replies and wanted to drop my take. Black Rayquaza is being kept off of the main cast for the time being, while Terapagos is actively being used just like Liko's other party members. That seems to me like the writers are subtly telling us that Rayquaza is stronger, at least without factoring in Stellar Form.

As for Liko vs. Roy at full power, their recent battle showed that Roy's Gator could defeat Meowscarada with a comfortable margin—tanking its guaranteed critical hit head-on without losing momentum. If Meowscarada rates a 6, I'd place Crocalor at an 8 based on that performance.

Regarding Hattrem, I can see Roy's Gator having enough juice in its tank to take her down after dispatching Meowscarada, leaving Terapagos. While it's definitely strong, I can see Roy's Gator and Kilowatrell wearing it down and his Lucario taking it out decisively

 

[Decidueye23]

Yeah, lets headcanon everything while we're at it.
The fact that black rayquaza isn ton the team is discretely telling us that it cant handle the explorers and needs to hide so its actually super weak while pagogo can now roam around in the open without being scared because it can easily take care of itself.