June 28th: SM80 - A Sand's Storm! An Ice Hole Double Battle!!

[lemoncatpower]

I don't recall anything anywhere that said that Alolan Sandshrew can dig through ice but some may be able to. Maybe a large group of them will come in and be able to break through the ice that way, in which they are protected by their hard backs.

I'd just assume a steel type could chip ice, that's all lol but if a sandslash comes in, he should at least be able to if the sandshrew can't. Does it not make sense to think those steel claws could dig through ice?

 

[Mega Altaria]

I'd just assume a steel type could chip ice, that's all lol but if a sandslash comes in, he should at least be able to if the sandshrew can't. Does it not make sense to think those steel claws could dig through ice?

I'm sure some of the Sandshrew will have Steel-type moves like Metal Claw so at least these moves might help them break through the ice. So in that case there may not be a need for a Sandslash to come to help the Sandshrew but certainly its sharp claws will let it break the ice better.

 

[DatsRight]

I understand. Although I would like an actual conclusion to the battle (like win or lose) since the last time Lillie had an official battle was with her butler using Pikachu (unless you choose to count that Totem battle with Galdion). I think defeating Tryanitar signifies her growth as a trainer since knowing Lillie she won’t depend on sheer force and probably on a smart strategy. I don’t mind your outcome either since it sounds quite probable and still develops Lillie.

Plus outcomes can still play a little into development, as shown with some of Ash's losses, it can affect how much Lillie wants to improve or what potential she views herself having. Even besides that, Serena having ALL her battles plot armoured or interrupted before she could lose or even take damage cost her a bit of fallibility. Even in the Flare arc where she was severely outmatched, no one was allowed to actually lay a hit on her or her team, which dumbed down the threat level a bit. While the AF arc wasn't awful, it was definitely tamed in this regard as well, both the Poni trial and US battle had the antagonist Pokemon just standing menacingly for the large part.

Even Ash straight up gets thrashed once in a while to show the plot isn't making him unstoppable and his adversaries are dangerous (eg. vs Nanu or his rivals, or even Team Rocket at odd points).


Concerning the Ice Stone, from what I remember Sophocles had it. Maybe he'll evolve another nearby Sandshrew to break the ice and that will give leeway for the one accompanying Lillie to join her team.

 

[p96822]

Plus outcomes can still play a little into development, as shown with some of Ash's losses, it can affect how much Lillie wants to improve or what potential she views herself having. Even besides that, Serena having ALL her battles plot armoured or interrupted before she could lose or even take damage cost her a bit of fallibility. Even in the Flare arc where she was severely outmatched, no one was allowed to actually lay a hit on her or her team, which dumbed down the threat level a bit. While the AF arc wasn't awful, it was definitely tamed in this regard as well, both the Poni trial and US battle had the antagonist Pokemon just standing menacingly for the large part.

Even Ash straight up gets thrashed once in a while to show the plot isn't making him unstoppable and his adversaries are dangerous (eg. vs Nanu or his rivals, or even Team Rocket at odd points).


Concerning the Ice Stone, from what I remember Sophocles had it. Maybe he'll evolve another nearby Sandshrew to break the ice and that will give leeway for the one accompanying Lillie to join her team.

What in the world are you talking about Serena's had plot armor. At least we got to see Serena's Pokemon grown and develop then have a quick montage of Snowy learning Aurora Veil

 

[Satomine Night]

I don't want Ash to come to save Lillie, but I want her to lose because she said that she not that great of a trainer

Lillie doesn't have to be that great of a Trainer if she is clever and capable of using her knowledge to turn the battle in her and the Sandshrew's favor, which I believe she is. It's possible the Sandshrew are losing against Tyranitar due to lack of strategy, rather than solely due to lack of strength. If Lillie is able to come up with a strategy that, say, takes advantage of Sandshrew's smaller size and the fact that the limited space of the cave might limit Tyranitar's mobility, then she may be able to gain the upper hand in the battle. As @Darthlord7 said, Lillie doesn't have to dominate the battle or lose to justify her progress. The Tyranitar could retreat due to feeling overwhelmed by the large number of Sandshrew.

 

[DatsRight]

What in the world are you talking about Serena's had plot armor. At least we got to see Serena's Pokemon grown and develop then have a quick montage of Snowy learning Aurora Veil

Emotionally Serena and her team developed fine enough. In terms of action involvement however, her and the SM girls suck individually. It just stuck out more for her since she was in an action focused series, while SM only has sporadic moments like this episode.

And the comparison to Serena's uninterrupted battle streak was brought up beforehand so, no, don't blame it on me for bringing it up again.

I could argue out of all the XY/SM girls, Lillie's battle run is arguably the best, since she at least trained for a move instead of getting it granted to her through DEM/'heat of the moment', and she has at least been slightly more methodical in battling. Also as mentioned, Lillie's ineptness isn't just some 'elephant in the room', she has teething problems and she's actually trying to get better. I wouldn't be surprised if Lana and Mallow can all battle on level with Ash with no explanation by the end of the series like Serena did, though Lillie's having at least SOME transition.

 

[Leonhart]

Maybe it me not like Lillie that much as character or me really not wanting a Tyranitar to lose to Snowy which bearly battles at all and a Sandshrew which said in the episode itself that they lose to this Tyranitar. I really wished it was a different Pokemon that Lillie was facing.

Regardless of Shiron's strength or lack thereof, Bangiras as a species are a joke in the anime for the most part, especially wild ones. So I wouldn't mind much either way if Shiron defeats Bangiras.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

. I wouldn't be surprised if Lana and Mallow can all battle on level with Ash with no explanation by the end of the series like Serena did, though Lillie's having at least SOME transition.

I hope not. The writers really deserved that third degree for making Braxien even being able to stand up to Pikachu. If that Axew vs Garchomp battle triggered people along with Snivy vs Pikachu that one should of as well. I don’t care about Lana “magically” being a good battler since it’s been implied she’s good at it but Mallow clearly doesn’t battle all that often since she’s running the cafe

 

[Zoruagible]

Lillie doesn't have to be that great of a Trainer if she is clever and capable of using her knowledge to turn the battle in her and the Sandshrew's favor, which I believe she is. It's possible the Sandshrew are losing against Tyranitar due to lack of strategy, rather than solely due to lack of strength. If Lillie is able to come up with a strategy that, say, takes advantage of Sandshrew's smaller size and the fact that the limited space of the cave might limit Tyranitar's mobility, then she may be able to gain the upper hand in the battle. As @Darthlord7 said, Lillie doesn't have to dominate the battle or lose to justify her progress. The Tyranitar could retreat due to feeling overwhelmed by the large number of Sandshrew.

So long as she doesn't actually beat Tyranitar....
That would just be complete BS. She's done nothing to even remotely deserve that. Kiawe's the only one of the SM crew that should stand a chance against something like that, because he's an actual battler.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

So long as she doesn't actually beat Tyranitar....
That would just be complete BS. She's done nothing to even remotely deserve that. Kiawe's the only one of the SM crew that should stand a chance against something like that, because he's an actual battler.

Exactly how? She can use strategy to win herself the battle. Also I think you’re over estimating Kiawe. The man (or child) has only done one Grand Trial and we’ve only seen him battle once or twice. He’s no more a battler than Lillie.

 

[DatsRight]

Exactly how? She can use strategy to win herself the battle. Also I think you’re over estimating Kiawe. The man (or child) has only done one Grand Trial and we’ve only seen him battle once or twice. He’s no more a battler than Lillie.

I think it's more that Kiawe has shown more capability in terms of manoeuvres, and both of his Pokemon are reasonably powerful (plus have Z Moves). Lillie has shown she can be smart in battle, but her and Snowy are still relatively inexperienced, with Snowy's one physical attack being one of her type's weakest. No matter how many smart moves you pull, you're still likely to lose if you pit a LV 15 Pokemon against a LV 50 one, just you might hold on long enough to put up a decent amount of losing offence.

 

[Satomine Night]

So long as she doesn't actually beat Tyranitar....
That would just be complete BS. She's done nothing to even remotely deserve that. Kiawe's the only one of the SM crew that should stand a chance against something like that, because he's an actual battler.

I think it's more that Kiawe has shown more capability in terms of manoeuvres, and both of his Pokemon are reasonably powerful (plus have Z Moves). Lillie has shown she can be smart in battle, but her and Snowy are still relatively inexperienced, with Snowy's one physical attack being one of her type's weakest. No matter how many smart moves you pull, you're still likely to lose if you pit a LV 15 Pokemon against a LV 50 one.

Lillie defeating Tyranitar wouldn't necessarily be BS if she doesn't only battle with Shiron—and she isn't only battling with Shiron; she is also battling with Sandshrew. She may not be an experienced battler, but she has proven to be incredibly knowledgeable and resourceful. If she comes up with a good strategy—say, one that takes advantage of Tyranitar's size and its potential limited mobility in the cave—then she could plausibly win without it seeming like BS. Besides, we don't know how strong the Tyranitar is. It's possible it has managed to keep the Sandshrew at bay up until this point by using its size to its advantage, and the Sandshrew haven't been able to come up with a strategy to defeat it.

 

[DatsRight]

It has potential, just as mentioned, I worry if the anime could really put believability into it, especially since so many of the non-Ash twerps' battles recently have had their brutality dumbed down greatly, even the big arcs they tend to avoid having the lower-tier Pokemon suffer blows that aren't just slapstick hinderance at worst (to the point only Gladion's Silvally, a debatably non-'cute' Pokemon, suffered any real damage during the AF arc) making things rather anti-climatic and one sided.

I get the feeling the writers would use any and every reason to make it a curb stomp (or at least cutting off before it's Tyranitar's turn to lay damage) over showing cute Pokemon like Snowy and Sandshrew really roughing it and struggling to keep the upper hand so as to give the fight real substance and tension.

 

[lolipiece]

Well, if she can't defeat it, why not stun it or prevent it from moving?

We've seen Powder Snow freeze things multiple times, so why not encase Tyranitar in ice long enough for the group to escape?

 

[DatsRight]

I just hope whatever it is they go somewhere unique and all the way with it, not half finished 'flash' that doesn't go anywhere like say the Pikachu rocker episode.

I just get kinda sick of 'Oh, there's gonna be a big battle, they're going to do a big battle...oh, sike, no they're not" hype bait episodes. Take a plot and finish it.

 

[Mega Altaria]

We've seen Powder Snow freeze things multiple times, so why not encase Tyranitar in ice long enough for the group to escape?

I believe it will be sufficient for Snowy to freeze Tyranitar’s legs to render it immobile. Then hopefully in that time Tyranitar won’t break out of the ice and the group escapes in time.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

They may or may not cop out on the battle. If they do cop out, an easy way to do so would be accidentally causing the cave begin collapsing, forcing all the Pokemon to work together to stop it.

 

[Leonhart]

So long as she doesn't actually beat Tyranitar....
That would just be complete BS. She's done nothing to even remotely deserve that. Kiawe's the only one of the SM crew that should stand a chance against something like that, because he's an actual battler.

We've seen much cheaper wins in the anime in general, however. So I don't see how Shiron winning against a Bangiras would be that bad. Lilie deserves a victory against a worthwhile opponent from my vantage point.

 

[Mega Altaria]

They may or may not cop out on the battle. If they do cop out, an easy way to do so would be accidentally causing the cave begin collapsing, forcing all the Pokemon to work together to stop it.

The barriers also start collapsing as well so that Ash and others have an opportunity to escape in which they dash for the exit. Poor Tyranitar might get left behind...

 

[CabochonJaw]

The barriers also start collapsing as well so that Ash and others have an opportunity to escape in which they dash for the exit. Poor Tyranitar might get left behind...

Not again. We just had the episode with the Minior.