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Kalos League Discussion Thread

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Shadao

Champion GETTO DA ZE!
Even though he's supposed to be an Anti Hero, it would make sense of him to pay for his crimes instead of getting a slap on the wrist just because he helped take them down. I mean he is just as guilty as TF since he is associated with them. I can't imagine him getting arrested, the reason being, "he turned good."
Good, but not forgotten. Suffice to say, that's why I'm more inclined to see Alain lose (voluntary likely) his Champion status and trophy, and give it to Ash after their little rematch.
 

WaterTypeWarrior

Well-Known Member
A strong trainer who was duped by Team Flare. What headlines that would make. What good there is to be the strongest trainer when you helped a villain destroy cities with his evil doomsday machine? What good is there to realize that your boss doesn't care about you or your friend, opting to torture a young boy for some battery source? Alain has a lot to answer for. He bears responsibility for Team Flare's crimes and he must answer for them. That's the ultimate humiliation. Champion is caught conspiring with evil team destroying the city. The runner up is cleaning up the mess he had made and is more heroic. Wait? Why isn't the runner-up the Champion?

No matter what, Team Flare shall remain a stain on Alain's reputation for the rest of his days. Best give up the title to someone else.
I'll admit, I'm an extremely forgiving person, but come on, Alain made a mistake. He was tricked. His affiliation with Team Flare isn't a reflection of his character. He's still a decent guy who just wants to be strong to protect the ones he loves. It's not like he's purposely trying to cause trouble. Yes, he should face some consequences for his actions, but I don't think losing his title as Champion should be one of them. His mistakes don't change the fact that he was the better trainer compared to Ash.
 

Emperor Empoleon

Honor of Kalos
It's not like he's purposely trying to cause trouble. Yes, he should face some consequences for his actions, but I don't think losing his title as Champion should be one of them. His mistakes don't change the fact that he was the better trainer compared to Ash.
^^^

And Ash isn't going to accept his first League like that anyway.
 

Shadao

Champion GETTO DA ZE!
I'll admit, I'm an extremely forgiving person, but come on, Alain made a mistake. He was tricked. His affiliation with Team Flare isn't a reflection of his character. He's still a decent guy who just wants to be strong to protect the ones he loves. It's not like he's purposely trying to cause trouble. Yes, he should face some consequences for his actions, but I don't think losing his title as Champion should be one of them. His mistakes don't change the fact that he was the better trainer compared to Ash.
Considering that it was Alain who brought Lysandre the Pokémon Z2, Alain who gathered the Mega Evolution energy for Team Flare, Alain who was focused on strength and power over friendship with those close to him, it's pretty much going to affect him personally. And considering the preview, it seems either Alain has entered BSOD or if he's still on Team Flare's side, but showing signs of regret. Not to mention that if the runner up has to guide him to the right path, it raises the question as to who is the real champion of Kalos?
 

Billybo10K

Silent Trainer
Why not have a final season with Ash facing the Champion's League? Remember how Cynthia says at the end of Paul and Ash's battle that she believes they'll both be at the Champion's League one day. It may have been a throwaway line, but to me that just screams "Final Ash Season!" Have him win a region or something, then move to a Champion's League bringing back old/new character to face Ash including most of his older rivals and end with him losing first episode because it's the anime and Ash can't have nice things.
 

GarchompChain

Well-Known Member
Wow I can't believe they're going to end this awesome saga with this league.

I mean we've only seen Ash win one battle. This brings this league to the bottom of the list for me.

It's a hard pill to swallow for sure...
 
My greatest problem with this league is how delicate most Pokémon are portrayed; it feels like they’re made out of paper. Instead of showing us some endurance to make the battles longer and more interesting, most Pokémon are obligated to desperately dodge or counter with another attack hoping to get lucky and not end in a tie. Taking a hit isn’t a choice, the Ultimate Team is just fully evolved, not fully powerful.

Bringing Goodra back was pointless. That dinosaur wasn’t training and growing twice its size like Gliscor did, it was in a freaking swamp full of babies doing nothing. Why make Goodra return for no reason? Is it just a way to prove that the reserves were a smarter choice?

The way time was distributed for most episodes was awful to say the least; I honestly think that no one wants an episode whose content is 90% about Tierno VS Wally 2nd. Episode #33 could have easily been ‘fixed’ if they spared 10 minutes for Ash VS Astrid and allowing some future underdogs to have their chances to bright. Episode #34 also put too much time on Alain VS Remo to sacrifice the development for the first half of the Ash VS Sawyer.

The clash between Mega Sceptile and Ash-Greninja is by far the most entertaining and best animated battle in the tournament, these two had a rivalry and seeing them fight in their strongest state against each other was epic. Just like many characters pointed it out, Ash is completely synchronized with Greninja during this match and the viewer can also sense it, compared to the final one that feels like a casual ‘not-ultimate’ match against an opponent he never defeated, it’s very awkward to watch, the soundtrack chosen also makes the battle feel out of place, as if: this should have been the first rematch.

I'll never get the meaning behind the Cheetos Shuriken, why did it change color, looked so menacing and made Greninja's red spikes glow? It barely did a fraction of the damage expected to Charizard considering all the advertisement used for this particular attack. Even Ash doesn't express enough emotion while shouting the decisive final command. Hell, even the explosion felt generic, the sound effect used doesn't help at all, Pikachu’s Iron Tail + Volt Tackle on Latios had much more impact compared to this.

I see no reason to not state that Alain’s Charizard is Darkrai 2.0 minus the fainting, that thing took attacks from level 4000 Pikachu and it seemed like they barely did anything and also swept through the competition without any struggle. It's worse than legendaries.

The Kalos league barely qualifies as a tournament, the only thing that makes it hold up among the others is the high quality of the animation, but the amount of generic battles, ties, lack of strategies and the very anti-climactic ending just kills the whole experience. I assume that they tried to cover mediocre writing for this arc with really good animation, bad idea; the decision of focusing on the Team Flare arc rather than what’s supposed to be the main event, it’s rather sad, especially after giving us so many good Gym battles throughout these last two seasons.

5/10 – “No XY&Z with vocals playing during the final match.”
 

Franckie

Well-Known Member
A lot of complaints in this thread stem from the series not doing what they want instead of the actual events itself. I agree that the Kalos League has several problems, notably skipping matches and the lackluster development of rivals. Sure, there were problems too with the final match:

  • lol @ Pikachu taking out two peudo-legendaries
  • lol @ Charizard shrugging off a Thunderbolt
  • lol @ Goodra not winning a single match
  • lol @ Greninja not using Water Shuriken against Charizard when it was still raining
I'm still happy with the end-result. Honestly, this is how Ash should be treated. For the first time Ash made it to the finals and narrowly lost. Outside of a few hiccups, I think Ash vs. Alain was well-done, not to mention the flashy animation. Ash used appropriate tactics by having Goodra use Rain Dance to counteract Bisharp's Thunder Wave and to set the stage to ante Greninja's water attacks. The only blunder was for Greninja to not Water Shuriken on Charizard whilst it was raining, but that's the fault of the writers, not Ash.

Regarding on the topic of Ash's character being problematic (e.g. never being allowed to win leagues), people misunderstand the root of the problem. The root of the problem is not Ash per se, it is the presentation of Ash's character that is the problem. These problems would have been avoided if the anime did what the manga did, alternate protagonists between sagas. I think someone in this thread also mentioned that this is what YU-GI-OH! does, which is a key reason the series is still going strong after 20+ years. Now this wouldn't have been possible at the beginning because no one was expecting Pokemon to become the juggernaut that it is today, but a lot of problems could have been solved with some regards for foresight. Hiring decent writers would have helped too. Sagas like the Kalos and Sinnoh sagas have nowhere near the amount of blunders evident during the Unova and Kanto sagas.

I have the feeling that if the current anime writers were allowed their way, Ash would be canned as the series' protagonist. I cannot see Ash being inferior to the likes of Alain, the Elite 4, or even Diantha by the saga's conclusion. It's long overdue to retire his character and move onto someone else.

People think Ash losing to Alain is reminiscent of Tobias? It isn't. Tobias came out of nowhere and effortlessly KO'd Ash's entire team with two pokemon. Did Alain come out of nowhere? No. He's been present in 4 Mega Evolution specials and a good chunk of XYZ. Furthermore, he struggled to KO Ash's entire time, with his Charizard narrowly besting Greninja. Oh, Alain isn't an ordinary trainer by the way. We're talking about a trainer who gave one E4 a run for his money (Siebold), defeated another E4 onscreen (Malva), and went toe-to-toe with Hoenn's Champion (Steven). The only rivals who were as developed as Alain are Paul and Gary, the rest left much to be desired.

I'm bound to rate the Kalos Saga has "adequate" but it remains to be seen what the writers will do for the series' conclusion. There's a good chance Ash will have a rematch with both Alain and Diantha. If the writers do this, which I think they will, then Ash is likely to win against Alain and will go toe-to-toe with Diantha, possibly even tying with her.
 

WaterTypeWarrior

Well-Known Member
Considering that it was Alain who brought Lysandre the Pokémon Z2, Alain who gathered the Mega Evolution energy for Team Flare, Alain who was focused on strength and power over friendship with those close to him, it's pretty much going to affect him personally. And considering the preview, it seems either Alain has entered BSOD or if he's still on Team Flare's side, but showing signs of regret. Not to mention that if the runner up has to guide him to the right path, it raises the question as to who is the real champion of Kalos?
Yes, but he did all that stuff under the assumption that it was all for peaceful purposes. I get that you view Ash as the better person, and I agree that at some point, a trainer's title should be questioned based on their actions and beliefs, but I don't think Alain has reached that point. I'll admit that he tends to go overboard in his pursuit of strength at the cost of those he cares about, but it's all in the name of keeping them safe. He's just not a bad enough guy for me to think that his personality should be the deciding factor in whether he remains Champion. He's made mistakes, but he hasn't made any conscious decisions to harm others.

I won't comment on the idea that he's seemingly still helping Team Flare in the next few episodes since they haven't aired yet. Based on how he shows signs of regret, however, I'd imagine that Marin is involved and he's forced to cooperate to keep her safe. THIS is a bit more questionable, but I'll reserve judgement until after the episode airs. He'd still be acting to protect another, though, so I don't think I could hold it against him to the same lengths you do.
 

greninjamaster

Well-Known Member
Oh the league sucked because when I go into viewing a league I want to see every round and see every one of Ash's battles so not seeing it this time around is a major letdown.

I mean if I was the writers and I knew that they were not gonna show us every round I would have created a plot device say a drawing where any trainer entered could win a chance to automatically advance to the Top 10 or whatever many. Then that's how I would explain Ash getting to the top 10 without a battle.
 

dean1234

Well-Known Member
To me it felt like they was writing ash to win but apparently something came up because;
we saw a lot of different previews
The Episode was placed together bad
Ash held back
Mcx healed itself everytime it got hit by AG
It was a last minute addition
Lazy writing
This is what I see. My opinion
 

SlimeStack

Well-Known Member
Huh. I actually don't want to drop this show at all. I never expected anything past this episode to be impacted by what happens here and I've never really watched in the hopes that Ash would win, I just didn't want this final episode to suck so much. The fact that Ash actually could have won without it really impacting what comes after just adds more salt to the wound too. Either that or they could have just had a better league with a more graceful loss.
 
Ash losing the league is not a big deal as we have seen that before. The show is not made to fill our wishlist. It is made the way the writers want it to be made. Ash put up a good fight but Alain was better in the end.
 

Cresselia92

SM Ash = New Ash
Ash losing the league is not a big deal as we have seen that before. The show is not made to fill our wishlist. It is made the way the writers want it to be made. Ash put up a good fight but Alain was better in the end.
This still doesn't justify a shoddy writing with a terrible and anticlimactic resolution, though. It's true that they don't have to fulfill wishlists, but it is still a business and their goal is to entertain the viewers and earn money for their job. Writing a show isn't like writing a fanfic where you can put whatever you want without having to worry too much. There are still some standards and guidelines that they must respect, and must promote their show properly. In this case, it was misleading promotion, and this faux hype is going to hurt, in the long run. Ergo, if the viewers aren't satisfied, they lose revenue and popularity, which is something that they must avoid at all costs.
 

sqlpetros

Member
The writers must really hate this poor guy...
Based on the attacks ChardX and Ash-Greninja got ash should have won
Here's the damage counter on Charizard-X & Ash-Greninja in the final showdown, just shows how ****ed up the fight really was:
Charizard-X:
* Quick attack
* Thunderbolt - (Super Effective)
* Cut
* Aerial Ace - (Punch + Kick)
* Water Shuriken
* SUPER Shuriken
Ash-Greninja:
* Dragon Claw
* Dragon Claw - (Braced w/ blocked arms)
* Blast Burn - (Not very Effective)
 
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