Same. The battle was s***. This should have been the best battle Ash ever had. Even the shuriken scene was so bad.. it's like "okay guess i'll use it now, why not?"
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Kalos League Discussion Thread
- Thread starter nameman
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Same. The battle was s***. This should have been the best battle Ash ever had. Even the shuriken scene was so bad.. it's like "okay guess i'll use it now, why not?"
Cresselia92
SM Ash = New Ash
Indeed. Sawyer has been the redeeming factor of an otherwise forgettable and disastrous League. And to think that he was heavily criticized in the past.
I also appreciated his match against Tierno, and this already puts it above Unova for me, where the only (rather lukewarm) redeeming factor was the match against Stephan.
The worst league all just because I disappoint us greatly, seriously in the past there was no direct implication that Ash could win but now if there were, besides the publicity were taking that promoted this end to end well.
I can not really see any way that writers can fix this.
I can not really see any way that writers can fix this.
Reviving my old account to post here, I'll simply express my thoughts on the episode now that I'm calmed down.
Compared to the first half of the battle, this one seemed a bit rushed IMO. The fact that ash lost despite all the hype the episode had was also really disappointing. However, I can sorta see why they wanted Alain to win considering his motivation for gathering energy for Lysandre and whatnot, but it just seems that this league shouldn't have been where he gathered that from Ash-Greninja.
Still, the extent of the reactions that I have seen are more depressing than the actual result IMO, with angry fans tweeting death threats to the writers/animators on twitter, that childish petition, and suddenly hating Alain when it seemed a lot of folks found him to be a better rival compared to Cameron or Tobias. I'm still excited for the flare arc, but part of me hopes they DON'T screw it up by making it predictable, since this whole arc was built up since last October and on a bigger level than the Kalos league. Just my thoughts, still feel bad for Greninja though more than anything since at least Ash has done some accomplishments in the past while Greninja has not outside of a badge. (Yes, I count the Orange League and Battle Frontier. They had entire seasons dedicated to the cause and weren't throwaway tournaments like the Whirl Cup.)
Compared to the first half of the battle, this one seemed a bit rushed IMO. The fact that ash lost despite all the hype the episode had was also really disappointing. However, I can sorta see why they wanted Alain to win considering his motivation for gathering energy for Lysandre and whatnot, but it just seems that this league shouldn't have been where he gathered that from Ash-Greninja.
Still, the extent of the reactions that I have seen are more depressing than the actual result IMO, with angry fans tweeting death threats to the writers/animators on twitter, that childish petition, and suddenly hating Alain when it seemed a lot of folks found him to be a better rival compared to Cameron or Tobias. I'm still excited for the flare arc, but part of me hopes they DON'T screw it up by making it predictable, since this whole arc was built up since last October and on a bigger level than the Kalos league. Just my thoughts, still feel bad for Greninja though more than anything since at least Ash has done some accomplishments in the past while Greninja has not outside of a badge. (Yes, I count the Orange League and Battle Frontier. They had entire seasons dedicated to the cause and weren't throwaway tournaments like the Whirl Cup.)
Neosonic97
Fastest thing Alive
Ash vs Alain was a trainwreck, plain and simple. While it started out good (Part 1 was actually pretty great), the WORST part of the episode was the main event- Charizard X vs Ash-Greninja. To put things into perspective, Alain's Charizard was shown to be WAY too strong, and WAY too durable for there to be any semblance of suspension of disbelief remaining. Suddenly Alain's Charizard goes from running evenly with a weaker version of Ash-Greninja to no-selling everything from the a stronger, more mastered version, and essentially two-shotting it?! I didn't mind Alain before this point, but the raw amount of stupidity and blatant pandering to Alain (In the form of his Charizard X getting supercharged plot armor) from EPISODE 38 ALONE has quickly rocketed him to my LEAST FAVOURITE CHARACTER, STAT. This pretty much SCREAMS AT THE TOP OF ONE'S LUNGS "God Mode Sue". Seriously, this is, to give a comparison to another anime, Kirito at the end of the Aincrad Arc levels bull****!
If Ash and Alain do end up having a rematch during the Team Flare Arc, I want to see Alain lose and lose BADLY to make up for this. It would be EXTREMELY cathartic at this point to see Alain get curbstomped, after the absurd plot armor he got from episode 38.
If Ash and Alain do end up having a rematch during the Team Flare Arc, I want to see Alain lose and lose BADLY to make up for this. It would be EXTREMELY cathartic at this point to see Alain get curbstomped, after the absurd plot armor he got from episode 38.
Thats what doesnt make sense at all. In the first two battles even before transforming, regular greninja did more to charizard than everything combined including pikachu did this whole final battle. At the end charizard stood there looking likenit was just getting warmed up.
Shotgunrain
Well-Known Member
Maybe the league was really rigged after all, according to one of the photos of the subbed episode where Malva said that Greninja would be defeated.
Navin
MALDREAD
The Kalos League was turned into a B plot for the main finale - the Flare climax.
You've been watching this show for how long? It was all out there that Ash could lose, but you convinced yourself that he would win.
Dude, if Destruco Disk ended up KO'ing Charizard, you would be saying that this was one of the greatest battles and the best league next to Sinnoh.
Like that's just not logical.
Alain/Charizard X were battling all-out since this fight is what they wanted the most and Alain was charged up after his vision of Manon. Charizard also began to slip in the distance, but the frog fell right away.
Yes and the weird part is that she doesn't complete the word defeated she just says greninja will be defea- with a lower voice
Also i want to point out that when greninja becomes Ash Greninja
. Its like he is 100% sure greninja will fall.GarchompChain
Banned
It's not about the loss perse, but about the handling of the league as a whole. Please get it through your skull...
Pokegirl Fan~
Liko>>>>>Ash
This league was better than I thought it would be, but I guess that would be because I had my expectations low for the league. I'd take Ash losing in the finals against Alan over what I originally expected which was Ash losing to Sawyer in the top 8.
SlimeStack
Well-Known Member
People might want to calm down about what Malva said. She's just reporting for the camera, she doesn't say anything secret or get cut off. Jessie just talks over her saying "Greninja will lose? What?" Malva's sentence is incomplete but in context it sounds like "Could this be the time Greninja loses?" given Jessie's response.
He didnt fight them all at once though on the win streak with out healing. It still doesnt make sense how he could be almost perfectly fine after all that because he wasnt even like that after the first two battles.
Charizard-Fan
Star Wars fan
I decided to make a post here for a long time.
When I first saw Greninja collapse and see Ash losing, I was furious. However, after calming down I think there are many good things about Ash not winning, even though part of me is still sad:
1. This league was handled badly. Only 2 of Ash's battles were really shown. No matter how good those 2 battles are, league still needs more than 2 battles if Ash is going to win or make it to the finals. Even though Ash vs Paul in Sinnoh league was totally awesome and one of the best battles in Pokemon, I doubt Sinnoh League would be nearly as popular as it is if we would've only seen Ash vs Paul and Ash vs Tobias. It was important to see Ash's other battles as well.
2. No reserves. I personally want to see Ash win a league with his current team AND reserves. Winning the big league should happen with a combination of current team and reserves, just like Ash used reserves in Sinnoh league.
3. While I absolutely love it how Ash made it to the finals, I don't like it how almost everything (aside for Ash vs Sawyer) else was skipped so it really didn't give a feeling that "wow, Ash made it all the way into finals this time, hopefully he can win the last match as well".
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely want Ash to win a league, been wanting that ever since I saw the Johto league as a child, but I want a really epic league for that. 10-15 episodes for the league, finals being a 3-parter, Ash using reserves, cameos about Ash's older friends watching (I'd also like to see Ash's older friends arrive into the league to cheer for Ash but cameos are sufficient), older soundtrack during the league and that together is my dream schenario of Ash winning the league. I know this won't very likely ever come true (at least, I doubt league would be 10-15 episodes), but I can dream.
I honestly miss the Sinnoh league tension. Unova league and Kalos leagues have both been pretty disappointing imo, and I remembered when I watched the Sinnoh league 6 years ago, it was so awesome and so exciting time. How awesome it was to wait for another league episodes, speculating which reserves Ash would use in each battle (aside from Ash vs Paul of course), would Ash really pull it off. Unova and Kalos haven't managed to give me the same amount of excitement and emotion towards the league.
Still, it was awesome how Ash made it to top 2 for the first time and was so close to winning, Kalos Ash gives me hope for Ash, even though he still didn't quite take the win yet.
But I think the biggest reason why I'm not that upset about Ash winning the league, is that there are SO MUCH MORE important things in life than Pokemon anime and Ash winning the league. Friends, family, health, exercise etc. 6 years ago and even 4 years ago, I only had few friends and I spent almost all of my free time in home. However, for 3 years I've had many friends and other very important people, lots of nice happenings and I've started to exercise a lot and lost a lot of weight. These things are way way more important to me than Pokemon anime and Ash winning the league. I also didn't get very upset about Ash not getting a mega Charizard, despite Charizard being my favourite Pokemon and me being a huge fan of Ash's Charizard, because I have so many important things in real life.
Still, congratulations Ash for making it to the finals for the first time. I really wish you win the league someday.
Ps. Don't be afraid to use reserves next time, they want to see you and battle for you and it's not an insult to your current team, on the contrary. I'm sure your current team would love to meet with your reserves and make friends with each other and fight together.
I understand why many people are very upset about Ash losing, but remember that there are way more important things than Pokemon.
When I first saw Greninja collapse and see Ash losing, I was furious. However, after calming down I think there are many good things about Ash not winning, even though part of me is still sad:
1. This league was handled badly. Only 2 of Ash's battles were really shown. No matter how good those 2 battles are, league still needs more than 2 battles if Ash is going to win or make it to the finals. Even though Ash vs Paul in Sinnoh league was totally awesome and one of the best battles in Pokemon, I doubt Sinnoh League would be nearly as popular as it is if we would've only seen Ash vs Paul and Ash vs Tobias. It was important to see Ash's other battles as well.
2. No reserves. I personally want to see Ash win a league with his current team AND reserves. Winning the big league should happen with a combination of current team and reserves, just like Ash used reserves in Sinnoh league.
3. While I absolutely love it how Ash made it to the finals, I don't like it how almost everything (aside for Ash vs Sawyer) else was skipped so it really didn't give a feeling that "wow, Ash made it all the way into finals this time, hopefully he can win the last match as well".
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely want Ash to win a league, been wanting that ever since I saw the Johto league as a child, but I want a really epic league for that. 10-15 episodes for the league, finals being a 3-parter, Ash using reserves, cameos about Ash's older friends watching (I'd also like to see Ash's older friends arrive into the league to cheer for Ash but cameos are sufficient), older soundtrack during the league and that together is my dream schenario of Ash winning the league. I know this won't very likely ever come true (at least, I doubt league would be 10-15 episodes), but I can dream.
I honestly miss the Sinnoh league tension. Unova league and Kalos leagues have both been pretty disappointing imo, and I remembered when I watched the Sinnoh league 6 years ago, it was so awesome and so exciting time. How awesome it was to wait for another league episodes, speculating which reserves Ash would use in each battle (aside from Ash vs Paul of course), would Ash really pull it off. Unova and Kalos haven't managed to give me the same amount of excitement and emotion towards the league.
Still, it was awesome how Ash made it to top 2 for the first time and was so close to winning, Kalos Ash gives me hope for Ash, even though he still didn't quite take the win yet.
But I think the biggest reason why I'm not that upset about Ash winning the league, is that there are SO MUCH MORE important things in life than Pokemon anime and Ash winning the league. Friends, family, health, exercise etc. 6 years ago and even 4 years ago, I only had few friends and I spent almost all of my free time in home. However, for 3 years I've had many friends and other very important people, lots of nice happenings and I've started to exercise a lot and lost a lot of weight. These things are way way more important to me than Pokemon anime and Ash winning the league. I also didn't get very upset about Ash not getting a mega Charizard, despite Charizard being my favourite Pokemon and me being a huge fan of Ash's Charizard, because I have so many important things in real life.
Still, congratulations Ash for making it to the finals for the first time. I really wish you win the league someday.
Ps. Don't be afraid to use reserves next time, they want to see you and battle for you and it's not an insult to your current team, on the contrary. I'm sure your current team would love to meet with your reserves and make friends with each other and fight together.
I understand why many people are very upset about Ash losing, but remember that there are way more important things than Pokemon.
Greneuliest808
Future Graduate
I decided to make a post here for a long time.
When I first saw Greninja collapse and see Ash losing, I was furious. However, after calming down I think there are many good things about Ash not winning, even though part of me is still sad:
1. This league was handled badly. Only 2 of Ash's battles were really shown. No matter how good those 2 battles are, league still needs more than 2 battles if Ash is going to win or make it to the finals. Even though Ash vs Paul in Sinnoh league was totally awesome and one of the best battles in Pokemon, I doubt Sinnoh League would be nearly as popular as it is if we would've only seen Ash vs Paul and Ash vs Tobias. It was important to see Ash's other battles as well.
2. No reserves. I personally want to see Ash win a league with his current team AND reserves. Winning the big league should happen with a combination of current team and reserves, just like Ash used reserves in Sinnoh league.
3. While I absolutely love it how Ash made it to the finals, I don't like it how almost everything (aside for Ash vs Sawyer) else was skipped so it really didn't give a feeling that "wow, Ash made it all the way into finals this time, hopefully he can win the last match as well".
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely want Ash to win a league, been wanting that ever since I saw the Johto league as a child, but I want a really epic league for that. 10-15 episodes for the league, finals being a 3-parter, Ash using reserves, cameos about Ash's older friends watching (I'd also like to see Ash's older friends arrive into the league to cheer for Ash but cameos are sufficient), older soundtrack during the league and that together is my dream schenario of Ash winning the league. I know this won't very likely ever come true (at least, I doubt league would be 10-15 episodes), but I can dream.
I honestly miss the Sinnoh league tension. Unova league and Kalos leagues have both been pretty disappointing imo, and I remembered when I watched the Sinnoh league 6 years ago, it was so awesome and so exciting time. How awesome it was to wait for another league episodes, speculating which reserves Ash would use in each battle (aside from Ash vs Paul of course), would Ash really pull it off. Unova and Kalos haven't managed to give me the same amount of excitement and emotion towards the league.
Still, it was awesome how Ash made it to top 2 for the first time and was so close to winning, Kalos Ash gives me hope for Ash, even though he still didn't quite take the win yet.
But I think the biggest reason why I'm not that upset about Ash winning the league, is that there are SO MUCH MORE important things in life than Pokemon anime and Ash winning the league. Friends, family, health, exercise etc. 6 years ago and even 4 years ago, I only had few friends and I spent almost all of my free time in home. However, for 3 years I've had many friends and other very important people, lots of nice happenings and I've started to exercise a lot and lost a lot of weight. These things are way way more important to me than Pokemon anime and Ash winning the league. I also didn't get very upset about Ash not getting a mega Charizard, despite Charizard being my favourite Pokemon and me being a huge fan of Ash's Charizard, because I have so many important things in real life.
Still, congratulations Ash for making it to the finals for the first time. I really wish you win the league someday.
Ps. Don't be afraid to use reserves next time, they want to see you and battle for you and it's not an insult to your current team, on the contrary. I'm sure your current team would love to meet with your reserves and make friends with each other and fight together.
I understand why many people are very upset about Ash losing, but remember that there are way more important things than Pokemon.
I couldn't have said this any better. Well said, my friend. I will admit that even though it couldn't close out the battle that matter most, Greninja is still my favorite Pokemon, but I will admit that Ash making it to the finals is really the 1st time this happened. There are definitely way more important things in our lives such as school and family.
Last edited:
SoundVoltex
Well-Known Member
Using hindsight as a way to reason that Ash would lose is really a bad way to say that he was going to lose in the first place.
Honestly, he was set up to win. Everyone had reason to believe Ash was going to win, and honestly, it was believable this time.
1. Perfected Ash-Greninja form, with a new Water Shuriken form introduced in XYZ 25.
2. Ash's exhibition match was one shotting Altaria, solidifying Ash as a top contender for the championship.
3. Ash mentally maturing in XYZ 28.
4. Ash's most stacked regional team ever.
5. Previous Greninja battles showing he kept up and even matched trainers higher caliber than anyone outside of Alain, E4, and regional Champions when his mind was in the right place.
6. Ash-Greninja as an answer to mega evolutions.
That's just anime-only reasons as well. You take the amount of potential market from a spending demographic you can bring back, 20th anniversary, Sun and Moon introduction without a sanctioned gym -> E4 system, among other things as well... Everything literally seemed to align with the stars and Ash winning the Kalos League.
Saying he was going to lose after he lost basically referencing he was always going to lose because he has always lost before... I don't know. Sounds like a bad argument.
Coming from how XYZ 37 turned out and the preview for XYZ 38, it was made clear anyone could win at that point. I was open to the possibility of Alain winning too. He played his cards right and Bisharp really carried his team, but it feels emotionally numbing towards the Pokemon anime. The western audience is really salty, but it's well within reason.
Honestly, he was set up to win. Everyone had reason to believe Ash was going to win, and honestly, it was believable this time.
1. Perfected Ash-Greninja form, with a new Water Shuriken form introduced in XYZ 25.
2. Ash's exhibition match was one shotting Altaria, solidifying Ash as a top contender for the championship.
3. Ash mentally maturing in XYZ 28.
4. Ash's most stacked regional team ever.
5. Previous Greninja battles showing he kept up and even matched trainers higher caliber than anyone outside of Alain, E4, and regional Champions when his mind was in the right place.
6. Ash-Greninja as an answer to mega evolutions.
That's just anime-only reasons as well. You take the amount of potential market from a spending demographic you can bring back, 20th anniversary, Sun and Moon introduction without a sanctioned gym -> E4 system, among other things as well... Everything literally seemed to align with the stars and Ash winning the Kalos League.
Saying he was going to lose after he lost basically referencing he was always going to lose because he has always lost before... I don't know. Sounds like a bad argument.
Coming from how XYZ 37 turned out and the preview for XYZ 38, it was made clear anyone could win at that point. I was open to the possibility of Alain winning too. He played his cards right and Bisharp really carried his team, but it feels emotionally numbing towards the Pokemon anime. The western audience is really salty, but it's well within reason.
Xenon Blue
No Hard Feelings
I decided to make a post here for a long time.
When I first saw Greninja collapse and see Ash losing, I was furious. However, after calming down I think there are many good things about Ash not winning, even though part of me is still sad:
1. This league was handled badly. Only 2 of Ash's battles were really shown. No matter how good those 2 battles are, league still needs more than 2 battles if Ash is going to win or make it to the finals. Even though Ash vs Paul in Sinnoh league was totally awesome and one of the best battles in Pokemon, I doubt Sinnoh League would be nearly as popular as it is if we would've only seen Ash vs Paul and Ash vs Tobias. It was important to see Ash's other battles as well.
2. No reserves. I personally want to see Ash win a league with his current team AND reserves. Winning the big league should happen with a combination of current team and reserves, just like Ash used reserves in Sinnoh league.
3. While I absolutely love it how Ash made it to the finals, I don't like it how almost everything (aside for Ash vs Sawyer) else was skipped so it really didn't give a feeling that "wow, Ash made it all the way into finals this time, hopefully he can win the last match as well".
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely want Ash to win a league, been wanting that ever since I saw the Johto league as a child, but I want a really epic league for that. 10-15 episodes for the league, finals being a 3-parter, Ash using reserves, cameos about Ash's older friends watching (I'd also like to see Ash's older friends arrive into the league to cheer for Ash but cameos are sufficient), older soundtrack during the league and that together is my dream schenario of Ash winning the league. I know this won't very likely ever come true (at least, I doubt league would be 10-15 episodes), but I can dream.
I honestly miss the Sinnoh league tension. Unova league and Kalos leagues have both been pretty disappointing imo, and I remembered when I watched the Sinnoh league 6 years ago, it was so awesome and so exciting time. How awesome it was to wait for another league episodes, speculating which reserves Ash would use in each battle (aside from Ash vs Paul of course), would Ash really pull it off. Unova and Kalos haven't managed to give me the same amount of excitement and emotion towards the league.
Still, it was awesome how Ash made it to top 2 for the first time and was so close to winning, Kalos Ash gives me hope for Ash, even though he still didn't quite take the win yet.
But I think the biggest reason why I'm not that upset about Ash winning the league, is that there are SO MUCH MORE important things in life than Pokemon anime and Ash winning the league. Friends, family, health, exercise etc. 6 years ago and even 4 years ago, I only had few friends and I spent almost all of my free time in home. However, for 3 years I've had many friends and other very important people, lots of nice happenings and I've started to exercise a lot and lost a lot of weight. These things are way way more important to me than Pokemon anime and Ash winning the league. I also didn't get very upset about Ash not getting a mega Charizard, despite Charizard being my favourite Pokemon and me being a huge fan of Ash's Charizard, because I have so many important things in real life.
Still, congratulations Ash for making it to the finals for the first time. I really wish you win the league someday.
Ps. Don't be afraid to use reserves next time, they want to see you and battle for you and it's not an insult to your current team, on the contrary. I'm sure your current team would love to meet with your reserves and make friends with each other and fight together.
I understand why many people are very upset about Ash losing, but remember that there are way more important things than Pokemon.
Agreed. Even if Ash did win this league, I wouldn't be too pleased, in fact I might have been even saltier. The fact that this league's pacing and progression is really bad and cameo/reserves were not there makes this league not very appealing. The problem I have with Ash losing is not that he lost, but the way he lost. That had to be the most anti-climatic ending ever. The teasing, title and preview did not help either. Sinnoh league was really good, it gave the fans hope that leagues can be intense and deep (which was immediately crushed by BW). This league went the other way, the fans are not very engaged in the actual plot anymore, and rightfully so. The writers don't deserve much hype after what just happened.
And yes, don't dwell on this disappointment for too long. There are better things to do than to rant on this page on how this loss is bs. After a few days the anger will die down, and the fans will once again be engaged in the TF plot.
Still.... the salt will stay. Forever. Goddammit writers.
Greneuliest808
Future Graduate
I actually can't wait to see the 2nd preview of XYZ39, to be quite honest. I am still stunned about the result, but I'm not mad at all as I am still trying to process this. I will be okay though, so everything should be fine.
PS: Your signature is quite hilarious.
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