Kalos League Discussion Thread

[hawkmbl]

So, just want to leave a thought on the Kalos League final match up. Ash had to lose this match for the Flare arc. Now, you're probably wondering why he had to lose it. So, look at the situation like this:

Ash and Alain have been shown to be the two strongest trainers in all of Kalos who are not members of the E4. Add onto their side the likes of Sawyer, Clemont, Blaziken Mask, Tierno and Trevor. All of them have been shown to be competent battles (except Trevor) and make the numbers appear uneven. Before saying "they have the four scientists, two admins, Xerosic and Malva plus Z2" look at it from a bigger picture.

It's implied that from XYZ 40 that Squishy and Z2 are fighting and in XYZ 41 that Clemont and Xerosic are battling each other so that takes them both out for each side. We're now looking at the four scientists, two admins and Malva for Team Flare. These same scientists which Sawyer was giving a hard time back in XYZ 1 with a Grovyle. Said Grovyle can now Mega-Evolve and is much stronger than before. Plus, Team Rocket managed to give them a hard time before being over run. So, it isn't hard to believe that Sawyer, Tierno, Trevor and Team Rocket could take them down in a fight. This now brings us to the admins. They've done nothing in the anime to show they even can fight so we can't count them in the bigger picture.

It now leaves Lysandre and Malva on the FLare side and Ash, Alain and Serena on the good guys. So, based on the fact that Alain would be able to beat Malva again, it leaves Lysandre at a serious disadvantage having to face the two strongest trainers from this year's League.

So, what do the writers do to fix this? They have Ash lose the League to play Alain up as a threat still. Ash hasn't beaten him at all, but is the closest person who isn't an E4 member. Now, with Alain on Flare's side and Ash out of picture due to his capture, it makes the entire situation much, much more dire. It also doesn't help that Diantha is in the city helping out and not at the battle site.

So, a team of Clemont, Sawyer, Tierno and Trevor isn't as hope inspiring as the previous one. Especially when they have to face Lysandre, Alain and Malve. Especially Alain after the fact that the person that's been beating them throughout this entire region just lost to the guy who's helping Flare

TLR: Ash losing the League is needed to help create a better story for all of the Kalos region. It may not be what we wanted but it's waht we need for the story to be great.

I kinda agree now that I've calmed down and remembered the Alain arc that went down before the league (With Chespie and whatnot). The league win was for Alain to build strength and grow powerful, which would make him a fierce enemy in the Flare Arc. I still feel that there's an epic battle up ahead, and I hope we at least see Ash Vs Lysandre in a full battle fashion to make up for the shortened league.

Though considering how twitter spread that misinformed rumor about the BW writers, does anyone know if the other rumors going around about Sun/Moon Preorders getting cancelled and Nintendo stock dropping because of yesterday's episode are true? I know their stock dropped today, but it would be pretty stupid for business people to drop Nintendo stock on a situation they have zero involvement in, and Sun/Moon preorders would be a bit too far considering how the anime and games are separated. (My personal non-excitement for Sun/Moon aside) I can't seem to find any sources on these but this is sorta blowing up on twitter so I'm unsure what to think.

 

[Xenon Blue]

So, just want to leave a thought on the Kalos League final match up. Ash had to lose this match for the Flare arc. Now, you're probably wondering why he had to lose it. So, look at the situation like this:

Ash and Alain have been shown to be the two strongest trainers in all of Kalos who are not members of the E4. Add onto their side the likes of Sawyer, Clemont, Blaziken Mask, Tierno and Trevor. All of them have been shown to be competent battles (except Trevor) and make the numbers appear uneven. Before saying "they have the four scientists, two admins, Xerosic and Malva plus Z2" look at it from a bigger picture.

It's implied that from XYZ 40 that Squishy and Z2 are fighting and in XYZ 41 that Clemont and Xerosic are battling each other so that takes them both out for each side. We're now looking at the four scientists, two admins and Malva for Team Flare. These same scientists which Sawyer was giving a hard time back in XYZ 1 with a Grovyle. Said Grovyle can now Mega-Evolve and is much stronger than before. Plus, Team Rocket managed to give them a hard time before being over run. So, it isn't hard to believe that Sawyer, Tierno, Trevor and Team Rocket could take them down in a fight. This now brings us to the admins. They've done nothing in the anime to show they even can fight so we can't count them in the bigger picture.

It now leaves Lysandre and Malva on the FLare side and Ash, Alain and Serena on the good guys. So, based on the fact that Alain would be able to beat Malva again, it leaves Lysandre at a serious disadvantage having to face the two strongest trainers from this year's League.

So, what do the writers do to fix this? They have Ash lose the League to play Alain up as a threat still. Ash hasn't beaten him at all, but is the closest person who isn't an E4 member. Now, with Alain on Flare's side and Ash out of picture due to his capture, it makes the entire situation much, much more dire. It also doesn't help that Diantha is in the city helping out and not at the battle site.

So, a team of Clemont, Sawyer, Tierno and Trevor isn't as hope inspiring as the previous one. Especially when they have to face Lysandre, Alain and Malve. Especially Alain after the fact that the person that's been beating them throughout this entire region just lost to the guy who's helping Flare

TLR: Ash losing the League is needed to help create a better story for all of the Kalos region. It may not be what we wanted but it's waht we need for the story to be great.

Makes sense. TF needs to be threatening, and Alain winning the league helps it.

Still doesn't justify the click-bait title and disco shuriken which did next to nothing, so still salty as hell. If Ash lost in a way that was satisfying (yes you can pull that off), then I would be fine. But the way he lost is just face-palm worthy.

The decision to use the league as a way to build the TF arc I feel like is still wrong, but I guess props to the writers for trying something different. Next time don't do it though. Most of us want to see a fully fleshed-out league.

 

[ZettaSlowKing]

The way I see it with Alain. By winning the battle against Ash, he has accomplished his "goal" of becoming strong. Now with the Flare Arc coming up and
Alain looking troubled in the preview. I'm pretty sure that his ideals are about to be challenged, big time.

As we've seen, he and Ash are seen teaming up in the beginning of the crisis. They probably find the root cause and/or run into Lysandre who demands Ash's
use as a human battery. Then he has Alain turn Ash in with the Mairin/Chespie's well being in the equation. Alain then starts sulking, Ash figures out what's going on,
but good guy Alain ultimately betrays Ash and turns him in anyway because it'll "help" Mairin in his eyes. Ash then gets used as a human battery as seen and Alain
probably walks away feeling conflicted for betraying his mancrush.

Personally I'd love for Ash to be the one to beat some sense into Alain's skull. And I'm not doubting it could happen. But I think it'll ultimately be someone like
Mairin or Malva who finally gets to him and sets him straight with or without Ash beating him down prior. He needs to learn a lesson somehow, that much is
obvious. It'll ultimately come down to him realizing that in order to protect who he holds dear, he needs to not shut them out/betray them and instead embrace
and be there for them.

SALT SECTION YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED:

As for Ash and Alain fighting it out in terms of League Redemption. I'd love for the frog to dropick Charizard (And Alain's ego) into the ground. But any hopes of
Ash getting that trophy are gone imo. Although, if Olympia's prediction holds true, he'll at least go home with a hero medal, right? Goes right up there with the
Pokemon League participation badge.

Unless the battle really was fixed somehow via the Mega Evolution Energy, cause c'mon, Edgelizard took more than enough damage to knock it out. Heck
a single Thunderbolt dropped him on his knee.

 

[Neosonic97]

It is not like Alain one shot all of Ash's pokemon in one hit during the battle instantly with no chance of all 6 of Ash's pokemon to attack.

It doesn't matter if they had a chance to attack, it's if they managed to do anything of note- at which point only three of Ash's mons did anything noteworthy and even then, only two of them weren't totally screwed over immediately afterwards- those being Pikachu and Talonflame (Albeit in Talonflame's case it was a Double KO via a clash between Brave Bird and Sky Attack). Hawlucha was One-shotted by Bisharp after beating down Weavile, Goodra didn't even score a hit on Bisharp without being OHKO'd, Noivern got destroyed by Weavile in at most two hits without getting one in, and while Ash-Greninja did score hits on CharX, they didn't DO anything, which is just as bad, if not WORSE, than being unable to land a hit at all!
So in short, FOUR of Ash's 'mons got shafted, including his all-time strongest, because for some reason Alain's Charizard is Stupidly-overpowered.

 

[GarchompChain]

The whole thing is that a Gary Stu (not disagreeing here) isn't about your flaws standing on their own. A Gary Stu is also defined in universe. Right now, Alain is on the verge of, if not tipped over, the edge of being one. No one seems to think he has a horrible bone in his body right now. Has he made mistakes? Sure. But everyone still loves him! Even Mairin, the one who has the most reason to dislike him, cheered for him. If he doesn't get realized by other characters for these horrible flaws then he could be stuck in Gary Stu mode.

But what's your opinion on the league?

So, just want to leave a thought on the Kalos League final match up. Ash had to lose this match for the Flare arc. Now, you're probably wondering why he had to lose it. So, look at the situation like this:

Ash and Alain have been shown to be the two strongest trainers in all of Kalos who are not members of the E4. Add onto their side the likes of Sawyer, Clemont, Blaziken Mask, Tierno and Trevor. All of them have been shown to be competent battles (except Trevor) and make the numbers appear uneven. Before saying "they have the four scientists, two admins, Xerosic and Malva plus Z2" look at it from a bigger picture.

It's implied that from XYZ 40 that Squishy and Z2 are fighting and in XYZ 41 that Clemont and Xerosic are battling each other so that takes them both out for each side. We're now looking at the four scientists, two admins and Malva for Team Flare. These same scientists which Sawyer was giving a hard time back in XYZ 1 with a Grovyle. Said Grovyle can now Mega-Evolve and is much stronger than before. Plus, Team Rocket managed to give them a hard time before being over run. So, it isn't hard to believe that Sawyer, Tierno, Trevor and Team Rocket could take them down in a fight. This now brings us to the admins. They've done nothing in the anime to show they even can fight so we can't count them in the bigger picture.

It now leaves Lysandre and Malva on the FLare side and Ash, Alain and Serena on the good guys. So, based on the fact that Alain would be able to beat Malva again, it leaves Lysandre at a serious disadvantage having to face the two strongest trainers from this year's League.

So, what do the writers do to fix this? They have Ash lose the League to play Alain up as a threat still. Ash hasn't beaten him at all, but is the closest person who isn't an E4 member. Now, with Alain on Flare's side and Ash out of picture due to his capture, it makes the entire situation much, much more dire. It also doesn't help that Diantha is in the city helping out and not at the battle site.

So, a team of Clemont, Sawyer, Tierno and Trevor isn't as hope inspiring as the previous one. Especially when they have to face Lysandre, Alain and Malve. Especially Alain after the fact that the person that's been beating them throughout this entire region just lost to the guy who's helping Flare

TL: DR: Ash losing the League is needed to help create a better story for all of the Kalos region. It may not be what we wanted but it's waht we need for the story to be great.

Right, I was wondering when you would come around... Good for you bro, never stop defending the writers!

 

[B. Thunder Tiger]

So, just want to leave a thought on the Kalos League final match up. Ash had to lose this match for the Flare arc. Now, you're probably wondering why he had to lose it. So, look at the situation like this:

Ash and Alain have been shown to be the two strongest trainers in all of Kalos who are not members of the E4. Add onto their side the likes of Sawyer, Clemont, Blaziken Mask, Tierno and Trevor. All of them have been shown to be competent battles (except Trevor) and make the numbers appear uneven. Before saying "they have the four scientists, two admins, Xerosic and Malva plus Z2" look at it from a bigger picture.

It's implied that from XYZ 40 that Squishy and Z2 are fighting and in XYZ 41 that Clemont and Xerosic are battling each other so that takes them both out for each side. We're now looking at the four scientists, two admins and Malva for Team Flare. These same scientists which Sawyer was giving a hard time back in XYZ 1 with a Grovyle. Said Grovyle can now Mega-Evolve and is much stronger than before. Plus, Team Rocket managed to give them a hard time before being over run. So, it isn't hard to believe that Sawyer, Tierno, Trevor and Team Rocket could take them down in a fight. This now brings us to the admins. They've done nothing in the anime to show they even can fight so we can't count them in the bigger picture.

It now leaves Lysandre and Malva on the FLare side and Ash, Alain and Serena on the good guys. So, based on the fact that Alain would be able to beat Malva again, it leaves Lysandre at a serious disadvantage having to face the two strongest trainers from this year's League.

So, what do the writers do to fix this? They have Ash lose the League to play Alain up as a threat still. Ash hasn't beaten him at all, but is the closest person who isn't an E4 member. Now, with Alain on Flare's side and Ash out of picture due to his capture, it makes the entire situation much, much more dire. It also doesn't help that Diantha is in the city helping out and not at the battle site.

So, a team of Clemont, Sawyer, Tierno and Trevor isn't as hope inspiring as the previous one. Especially when they have to face Lysandre, Alain and Malve. Especially Alain after the fact that the person that's been beating them throughout this entire region just lost to the guy who's helping Flare

TL: DR: Ash losing the League is needed to help create a better story for all of the Kalos region. It may not be what we wanted but it's waht we need for the story to be great.

Pretty much agree with all of this. Its also to note that the Kalos League episodes were connected to the Team Flare Arc, hence why the League episodes were so rushed and everything. Compared to the other League episodes done in the past few seasons, those were fully-fleshed out arcs on their own without any sort of threat looming above them, hence when Ash lost in those leagues it was just normal, despite the bullcrap he got served with (Tobias and Cameron's fights for instance).

Now, however, in the Kalos League, Team Flare is actively the antagonist who are putting their plan into motion just moments after the final match of the league between Alain and Ash has concluded. Furthermore, Alain is connected to Team Flare in many ways. Other rivals that Ash fought in past seasons were just rivals and nothing else, so the stakes weren't as high as they are now.

There's actually danger arising in the same episode Ash lost the final match. I mean, what better moment is there to enhance the danger of Team Flare's machinations? That is right, triggering their plan just after the final match. It doesn't go higher than that.

By winning the trophy, Alain, in the same time, triggered the start of a great disaster. Don't forget, he's still connected to Team Flare. He's not your ordinary rival character like many others before him, nor was he interested to join the league in the first place with the same passion other trainers like Sawyer and Ash came with. He came to join with a motive, and that was gathering Mega Evolution energy. He wasn't coming there for fun or for the attempt to actually win the league, other than the desire to battle Ash and his special Greninja. Winning the league for him, was just a mere bonus. It wasn't something he was actually striving for.

 

[SlimeStack]

The thing about Ash having to enter the Flare arc without having ever beaten Alain is that we've already seen a hundred battles showing how strong Alain is, and we've already seen Ash lose to him twice and go through an entire character arc getting him back on his feet. We simply did not need to see this battle unless it was to show us something new. This is ignoring the fact that the Charizard/Greninja battle was just poorly written which drags the episode down regardless of the result.

So either their rivalry arc should have been written such that the finals comes off as a significant milestone like Ash's previous two battles with him, or Alain should have just not entered the league at all.

That's the frustrating part here. The battle adds nothing to this ongoing rivalry arc; Ash loses to Alain in order to lose the league and nothing else. We have the battles showing Alain's strength, we have the battles showing Ash and Greninja's struggles against Alain, and we will have the battle in the Flare arc that shows Ash and Greninja being unstoppable (Alain isn't necessarily the opponent, but we will get this battle in some form). This battle doesn't move the plot forward at all, which is downright terrible when it's Ash versus a rival in the highest position he's ever achieved.

 

[Shadao]

The thing about Ash having to enter the Flare arc without having ever beaten Alain is that we've already seen a hundred battles showing how strong Alain is, and we've already seen Ash lose to him twice and go through an entire character arc getting him back on his feet. We simply did not need to see this battle unless it was to show us something new. This is ignoring the fact that the Charizard/Greninja battle was just poorly written which drags the episode down regardless of the result.

So either their rivalry arc should have been written such that the finals comes off as a significant milestone like Ash's previous two battles with him, or Alain should have just not entered the league at all.

That's the frustrating part here. The battle adds nothing to this ongoing rivalry arc; Ash loses to Alain in order to lose the league and nothing else. We have the battles showing Alain's strength, we have the battles showing Ash and Greninja's struggles against Alain, and we will have the battle in the Flare arc that shows Ash and Greninja being unstoppable (Alain isn't necessarily the opponent, but we will get this battle in some form). This battle doesn't move the plot forward at all, which is downright terrible when it's Ash versus a rival in the highest position he's ever achieved.

What it shows us is that Ash has mastered himself by the time he got to the finals, while Alain continuously fails to understand what his epiphany is trying to tell him. Ash is not here prove himself to anyone anymore. He is here to have the greatest battle of his time. Alain still goes with mentality of I must never lose in order to make Mairin smile (which reminds me of Ash trying to not lose to Wulfric to impress Sawyer). One is the master and worthy of the championship, while the other is not.

Additionally, it also reminds us that Ash has no hard feelings against Alain and is a good sport when it comes to losing. This would make a potential betrayal from Alain when the Flare arc starts be all the more gut-wrenching to Ash. If the outcome was reversed and the betrayal theory is still used, Alain's betrayal wouldn't be as shocking or clear since one could easily mistaken Alain's action as petty revenge against Ash for losing instead of Alain making a dumb decision and then later regretting it in the future.

 

[dean1234]

Everyone says the league was rigged.
You know what I wanted serena and Clemont both to a get bond Phenomenon

 

[Holy157]

So I'm gonna quickly chime in on the discussion above. I personally think Alain winning works well from a storytelling standpoint, but I also think that Ash winning would have worked fine as well. If Ash had won, Alain could stick around with Lysandre in order to keep growing stronger until he comes around and understands that he has been wrong. Now, with him winning, he sticks around Lysandre for some reason, being conflicted and doubting himself until he turns on Lysandre.

Now, the League overall was a let down. Ash vs Sawyer was good, with vs M-Sceptile being the highlight. The other two battles were decent, with their own positives and negatives. The way they handled the League could have been okay had Ash won, but with him getting 2nd place at least another battle or parts of a few battles would have been far better. In the end, the League had its moments but got overshadowed by the TF arc. Had we gotten glimpes of the TF arc being the main focus, I might have been slightly more understanding.

 

[Johtohfiller]

So, just want to leave a thought on the Kalos League final match up. Ash had to lose this match for the Flare arc. Now, you're probably wondering why he had to lose it. So, look at the situation like this:

Ash and Alain have been shown to be the two strongest trainers in all of Kalos who are not members of the E4. Add onto their side the likes of Sawyer, Clemont, Blaziken Mask, Tierno and Trevor. All of them have been shown to be competent battles (except Trevor) and make the numbers appear uneven. Before saying "they have the four scientists, two admins, Xerosic and Malva plus Z2" look at it from a bigger picture.

It's implied that from XYZ 40 that Squishy and Z2 are fighting and in XYZ 41 that Clemont and Xerosic are battling each other so that takes them both out for each side. We're now looking at the four scientists, two admins and Malva for Team Flare. These same scientists which Sawyer was giving a hard time back in XYZ 1 with a Grovyle. Said Grovyle can now Mega-Evolve and is much stronger than before. Plus, Team Rocket managed to give them a hard time before being over run. So, it isn't hard to believe that Sawyer, Tierno, Trevor and Team Rocket could take them down in a fight. This now brings us to the admins. They've done nothing in the anime to show they even can fight so we can't count them in the bigger picture.

It now leaves Lysandre and Malva on the FLare side and Ash, Alain and Serena on the good guys. So, based on the fact that Alain would be able to beat Malva again, it leaves Lysandre at a serious disadvantage having to face the two strongest trainers from this year's League.

So, what do the writers do to fix this? They have Ash lose the League to play Alain up as a threat still. Ash hasn't beaten him at all, but is the closest person who isn't an E4 member. Now, with Alain on Flare's side and Ash out of picture due to his capture, it makes the entire situation much, much more dire. It also doesn't help that Diantha is in the city helping out and not at the battle site.

So, a team of Clemont, Sawyer, Tierno and Trevor isn't as hope inspiring as the previous one. Especially when they have to face Lysandre, Alain and Malve. Especially Alain after the fact that the person that's been beating them throughout this entire region just lost to the guy who's helping Flare

TL: DR: Ash losing the League is needed to help create a better story for all of the Kalos region. It may not be what we wanted but it's waht we need for the story to be great.

These are good points. I'm honestly surprised at Alain apparently siding with Flare but we'll see soon how that works out.

We might have Korrina and Steven mammajammin' Stone with the good guys too.

 

[catzeye]

Makes sense. TF needs to be threatening, and Alain winning the league helps it.

Still doesn't justify the click-bait title and disco shuriken which did next to nothing, so still salty as hell. If Ash lost in a way that was satisfying (yes you can pull that off), then I would be fine. But the way he lost is just face-palm worthy.

The decision to use the league as a way to build the TF arc I feel like is still wrong, but I guess props to the writers for trying something different. Next time don't do it though. Most of us want to see a fully fleshed-out league.

I agree with this. In the overall story the loss makes sense, but the way it was executed was crappy. Had the loss been written in a satisfying way the outrage wouldn't have been as bad. I'd still be salty because I like Ash's character and want him to succeed but I wouldn't be nowhere NEAR as salty as I was this Thursday.

I feel like they could have had a fleshed out league with a satisfying loss and then Team Flare all at once. I just think the writers had their hands tied due to upper level meddling.

 

[fawfulmark2]

I'm generally more a lurker in this day and age, but I came across a comment on GameFAQS of all sites that I feel best describes why the outcry was more numerous then ever before.

Haven't followed the series since Sinnoh, and it looks like I'm not missing anything.

I can definitely sense the disappointment from fans though. XYZ supposedly made a lot of improvements and it looked like they were going to change the status quo by actually having Ash finally win this time, but it wasn't the case.

I don't think the disappointment is merely from Ash losing yet again, it's the bigger harsh realization that once again, the Pokemon anime will NOT progress. Status Quo is God, and that also means everything the XY series had built up to this point will be erased when Alola comes. Ash's team will be gone, the character development will be gone, all the progress the show made is fruitless and will be gone. Alain? We'll never see him again.

Goodbye Goodra, Goodbye Ash-Greninja, goodbye Serena, goodbye Clemont and Bonnie, goodbye XY.

After 18 years the anime is the only form of Pokemon media that seems to not really progress the story, opting to reset it again. I mean we live in a time where DiCaprio can win an Oscar, Undertaker can lose a Wrestlemania, Charlie Brown can talk to the Red-Haired Girl and Zelda has a timeline, but the Pokemon Anime has stuck to the same pattern for decades. It might not even be a decent advertisement anymore-Pokemon GO has drawn more interest in the games then the anime has done in years.

It's like...Dr. Manhattan or something-the world moves on, but the show stands still.

 

[Johtohfiller]

2nd place is progress though, aside from BW (which was just weird in so many ways) he's been slowly but steadily getting further.

 

[Shadao]

I'm generally more a lurker in this day and age, but I came across a comment on GameFAQS of all sites that I feel best describes why the outcry was more numerous then ever before.



After 18 years the anime is the only form of Pokemon media that seems to not really progress the story, opting to reset it again. I mean we live in a time where DiCaprio can win an Oscar, Undertaker can lose a Wrestlemania, Charlie Brown can talk to the Red-Haired Girl and Zelda has a timeline, but the Pokemon Anime has stuck to the same pattern for decades. It might not even be a decent advertisement anymore-Pokemon GO has drawn more interest in the games then the anime has done in years.

It's like...Dr. Manhattan or something-the world moves on, but the show stands still.

We're not done with Alain yet. This is only the beginning. The only people who don't realize it are the ones who didn't pay attention to whole series of XY and XY&Z. Alain is not like any League rival that Ash has faced before. We have an Ash who has reached to a point where he mastered himself upon the finals of the League. We have a League rival/Champion who is in need of guidance from Ash. The monologue scene showcases the contrast between the two and for the first time, Ash is the one who comes off as superior while Alain is still a learner. And if that is the case, the issue of the championship is not over. Not yet.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Wait, this is new. When did they say that his other Pokemon were rented from Team Flare?

 

[WaterTypeWarrior]

Wait, this is new. When did they say that his other Pokemon were rented from Team Flare?

It wasn't ever stated, or even hinted for that matter. People are just desperately reaching for more reasons to complain about Alain winning. There's literally no reason to believe that any of the Pokemon Alain used don't belong to him. Same goes for the theory that Lysandre tampered with the match.

If I'm somehow proven wrong later, so be it. That's just how I see these theories right now.

 

[Alexander18]

I think if they made the battles less rushed and less hype on certain episodes then this league would have been the best so far.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

Was it confirmed that Alain is still siding with Flare despite Flare making their move?

Snip~

That's a pretty good theory but I disagree.

The writting would convey more emotion, tension and drama had Ash won.

I mean, here we have the strongest non-E4/Diantha trainer on Kalos captured by the bad guy. And then the only person capable of matching him is working with the bad guys even if by force (supposing Alain remains with flare despite the attack).

With Ash losing and supposing Alain will stop helping flare - which I see as the most likely scenario - it almost feel like we get this:

Lysandre: Hey, Kalos, I've captured the league's runner-up! Fear me! Praise me!
Kalosians: Ok, but where's our champion? Did you get him too?
Lysandre:

See? Your theory is great but it'd need confirmation that Alain will still work for Flare, which I don't think it's the case specially with how Alain is being portrayed.

And even considering Alain would stay loyal to Lysandre even if unwilling (Mairin or Chespie are made a hostage) I still don't see how there's any drama on the "second best" captured. Even if Ash was free, the situation would still look tense because Lysandre has Alain under control and Ash had failed beating him.

=====================

Anyway, just to make clear, I'm on the minority who isn't overly upset that Ash has lost (if you see my post in the thread before the airing, I had said I was not betting on Ash's win). All I'm saying is that there'd more tension if Ash had won.

 

[Epicocity]

Was it confirmed that Alain is still siding with Flare despite Flare making their move?



That's a pretty good theory but I disagree.

The writting would convey more emotion, tension and drama had Ash won.

I mean, here we have the strongest non-E4/Diantha trainer on Kalos captured by the bad guy. And then the only person capable of matching him is working with the bad guys even if by force (supposing Alain remains with flare despite the attack).

With Ash losing and supposing Alain will stop helping flare - which I see as the most likely scenario - it almost feel like we get this:

Lysandre: Hey, Kalos, I've captured the league's runner-up! Fear me! Praise me!
Kalosians: Ok, but where's our champion? Did you get him too?
Lysandre:

See? Your theory is great but it'd need confirmation that Alain will still work for Flare, which I don't think it's the case specially with how Alain is being portrayed.

And even considering Alain would stay loyal to Lysandre even if unwilling (Mairin or Chespie are made a hostage) I still don't see how there's any drama on the "second best" captured. Even if Ash was free, the situation would still look tense because Lysandre has Alain under control and Ash had failed beating him.

=====================

Anyway, just to make clear, I'm on the minority who isn't overly upset that Ash has lost (if you see my post in the thread before the airing, I had said I was not betting on Ash's win). All I'm saying is that there'd more tension if Ash had won.

Wouldn't it be the drama of the runner-up being captured while the winner is...oh, actually working with them? Not taking a side, just pointing out. You're assuming Alain will never work with Flare once in this arc, but I think it's getting increasingly obvious that he will be betraying Ash.