Frozocrone
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Kalos League - One Year Later
- Thread starter Soniman
- Start date
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U.N. Owen
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
The salt storm would be more interesting than the episode proper.
Shadao
Aim to be a Pokémon Master
If you asked me what was my issue with the Kalos League, I will simply point to Alain and more importantly, what he actually represents as a trainer. Long before I even heard about Alain's participation in the Kalos League, I had speculated (and hoped for) Alain to be Ash's final opponent in the Kalos League. Not just because he has a powerful Mega Charizard X, but because I knew where this character was heading after seeing Lysandre in the shadows. A pawn for Team Flare's agenda. By default, I consider Alain's path to be the wrong one. His desire to become the strongest Mega Evolution trainer has hints of hubris and a misunderstanding of what being a Pokémon Trainer supposed to be.
And since he is in the universe with Ash, a trainer that we the audience ought to look up to as a role model, I suspected that Ash would show Alain the truth of being the strongest as well as the insidious nature of Team Flare. And knowing Ash, he likes a challenge. A powerful Mega Charizard X is something that I suspect Ash would like to fight (especially if he doesn't get his Mega Charizard). And considering that Charizard is popular, a fitting fight would be at the League and preferable the last round.
This, combined with my impression of Alain, led me to the conclusion that if these conditions are met, Ash is most likely going to win. And even if he didn't, he's still a winner regardless because Alain, by being in cahoots with Team Flare, has been compromised and cannot be seen in the same light as Tyson or Tobias (in other words, Alain does not represents a trainer that Ash needs to look up to. Rather, it's the other way around).
My issue with Alain defeating Ash in the final round of the Kalos League has less to do with Ash losing and more to do with how Alain's association with Team Flare (and him failing to learn his lesson) would affect the championship status. Because a champion is supposed to be more than just a person who happens to win a contest. They are supposed to represent the best of the trainers and be looked up to. Alain can never achieve that status no matter how many battles he won. If the people of Kalos realized that the new champion was personally involved with a criminal organization that threatened to destroy the world, I don't think it would be conformable to still refer to him as a champion. Even if he amends.
That's why I wanted Alain to give up his title and trophy out of shame. Even if he could not give it to Ash, he should get rid of it regardless and start off fresh. The trophy, instead of representing Alain at his peak and glory, now just represents an Alain that was foolish and blindly obsessed to never lose. And the dependency on Ash for guidance just highlights who was the real winner of that League in the end.
If I had to change anything, I would have Alain try to give the trophy to Ash in the aftermath of the Team Flare incident, only for Ash to refuse as he finds the final round to be a good enough reward itself and prefers to win the trophy and championship the proper way, and tells Alain to keep it. Alain, realizing the truth in Ash's words but still ridden with guilt, decides to return trophy to Diantha and request to revoke his title as champion with multiple excuses (that he didn't feel like he deserved it, he used Mega Ring and Stone from Lysandre rather than earning one himself, etc.). While it doesn't make Ash the champion, it does ironically make Ash officially the highest ranked participant in the Kalos League.
They somewhat attempted that in the anime by making everyone who fought against Team Flare the champion of the Kalos League, rendering the official rank null and void. But I wish they would have emphasized that a lot more.
And since he is in the universe with Ash, a trainer that we the audience ought to look up to as a role model, I suspected that Ash would show Alain the truth of being the strongest as well as the insidious nature of Team Flare. And knowing Ash, he likes a challenge. A powerful Mega Charizard X is something that I suspect Ash would like to fight (especially if he doesn't get his Mega Charizard). And considering that Charizard is popular, a fitting fight would be at the League and preferable the last round.
This, combined with my impression of Alain, led me to the conclusion that if these conditions are met, Ash is most likely going to win. And even if he didn't, he's still a winner regardless because Alain, by being in cahoots with Team Flare, has been compromised and cannot be seen in the same light as Tyson or Tobias (in other words, Alain does not represents a trainer that Ash needs to look up to. Rather, it's the other way around).
My issue with Alain defeating Ash in the final round of the Kalos League has less to do with Ash losing and more to do with how Alain's association with Team Flare (and him failing to learn his lesson) would affect the championship status. Because a champion is supposed to be more than just a person who happens to win a contest. They are supposed to represent the best of the trainers and be looked up to. Alain can never achieve that status no matter how many battles he won. If the people of Kalos realized that the new champion was personally involved with a criminal organization that threatened to destroy the world, I don't think it would be conformable to still refer to him as a champion. Even if he amends.
That's why I wanted Alain to give up his title and trophy out of shame. Even if he could not give it to Ash, he should get rid of it regardless and start off fresh. The trophy, instead of representing Alain at his peak and glory, now just represents an Alain that was foolish and blindly obsessed to never lose. And the dependency on Ash for guidance just highlights who was the real winner of that League in the end.
If I had to change anything, I would have Alain try to give the trophy to Ash in the aftermath of the Team Flare incident, only for Ash to refuse as he finds the final round to be a good enough reward itself and prefers to win the trophy and championship the proper way, and tells Alain to keep it. Alain, realizing the truth in Ash's words but still ridden with guilt, decides to return trophy to Diantha and request to revoke his title as champion with multiple excuses (that he didn't feel like he deserved it, he used Mega Ring and Stone from Lysandre rather than earning one himself, etc.). While it doesn't make Ash the champion, it does ironically make Ash officially the highest ranked participant in the Kalos League.
They somewhat attempted that in the anime by making everyone who fought against Team Flare the champion of the Kalos League, rendering the official rank null and void. But I wish they would have emphasized that a lot more.
345ash-greninja
Auto-Memories Doll
I would've liked to see Greninja fully one-shot Titus's team, though. Mega Charizard X is shown to one-shot Trevor's team, then why not Ash-Greninja Titus's?
CMButch
Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
That episode had no battling so I call it filler in league arc, you know arc that features battling. It's not filler in series, but in arc it is.
They could've done some things about that episode like:1) change the way it was and put those 20 minutes in other episodes so it could be like 10 minutes Ash vs Tomo, 10 minutes Ash meeting Lysandre.( I never said Ash vs Tomo must be 20 minutes) or Ash vs Astrid finishes, 5 minutes until the end of episode, Mairin meets Ash and co etc.. 2) Put that episode after league is finished. 3) Put that episode before first match of league( maybe the best thing they should've done.
I never said Greninja would OS them, nor I said that Greninja should've battled Tomo.lol
It could've been other XY Pokemon, hence even reserves...
Pikachu52
Well-Known Member
To be honest I didn't watch it until the english dub came out several months later, so I'm not sure about the whole world watching. So I knew what was coming when I saw it - In fact I was mostly keen to get to the Team Flare parts and after Pikachu lost to Charizard the battle stopped interesting me so I think I may have skipped parts of it.
I don't see why people were so surprised really. Ash falling out the league to a more powerful rival is an anime staple. I actually think it's better this way. It gives the puts the audience in a position to sympathise with Ash and it conveys some basic messages about disappointment, sportsmanship and dealing with the fact that loosing is part of life sometimes. Ash is and always has been an average to above average trainer wiht moments of brilliance. That suits the character and personality created for him. And, with maybe the exception is Sinnoh, Ash has lost most leagues to a similarly positioned or better trainer who won fair and square
I actually thought the Kalos league, at least for the plot choices made, was done reasonably well. Before hand I was worried it was going to be heavily focused on Greninja at the expense of Ash's other Pokémon. In fact Greninja, despite the build up, only took on his two main rivals and Bisharp (not counting Altaria and off screen battles). The pleasant surprise was Pikachu essentially carrying Ash in both the final and semi-final battles, defeating two opponents in each battle. That was a good way to finish what had been a brilliant portrayal and treatment of Pikachu throughout the XY series, limiting his battles overall, but giving him the star role in the first 4 gym battles, keeping his losses to less than I can count on one hand, not spamming him and not, as nearly every series prior has done save Johto, giving him the final loss in Ash's last league battle. The result is Pikachu at the high level he should be, but not detracting from the rest of Ash's team. So for that reason, though far from ideal, this league has actually been one of the better ones.
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PokemonKnight
#1 Sylveon Fan
The part with the Furfrou trainer might have been the best writing the series had in a long time. It was a nice reminder that obtaining 8 badges is hard and some dreams never make it too far.
There was no excuse for cutting out League battles. That is what each saga builds up to: the League. Cut out a darn filler or two instead.
There was no excuse for cutting out League battles. That is what each saga builds up to: the League. Cut out a darn filler or two instead.
Spyro39
Well-Known Member
A writing that ultimately amounted to nothing at the end when he told Ash to win. To me, that Furfrou trainer was one of the worst things in the series since he took away more screen time in the Kalos League, was never heard of again, and was one of the reasons people got false hype on Ash winning. What a waste of time he was. Would've been better to showcase Ash's battle with Titus completely in that episode instead.
PokemonKnight
#1 Sylveon Fan
I agree with your point. If the writers followed through on his appearance, it would have been top notch. As it stands, it goes in the pile with Amourshipping as the prime example of lost opportunity to actually advance the anime. It is still a good reminder that 8 badges aren't guaranteed and it highlights that Ash is a great trainer for continuously building up new teams every generation and reaching the League.
It was truly about more than that, as much as people want to deny it and claim it only as "hype bait". His character was used to show the divide in mentality between Ash and Alain, the exact thing that led to Ash being the one to pull Alain out of despair in the Flare arc and make Alain say that he felt, in the end, he could never truly beat Ash. There was actually a lot of subtle interaction and contrasting of characters at play through XYZ, but the League was when it was most apparent.
Dragalge
"Orange" Magical Girl
I saw him more as some random weirdo who managed to waste some time from my life and make the Kalos League opening episode one of my least favorite episodes in XY rather then teach something that was more than likely already known before.
GarchompTheAssassin
Water starter fan
I expected him to lose, yet was still disappointed...
His immediate reaction to losing was the worst thing (almost rage-inducing in fact, with how ridiculous and unnatural it was)
His immediate reaction to losing was the worst thing (almost rage-inducing in fact, with how ridiculous and unnatural it was)
Pikachu Fan Number Nine
Don't Mess wit Texas
I truly hope the writers have learned their lesson after this. The older fans do care if he wins a league or not and maybe the writers will finally listen from here on out.
Pokegirl Fan~
Liko>>>>>Ash
Not going to happen since the target audience only matters and the anime will keep going anyways since the games are still selling well. Ash is doomed to lose the pointless leagues until the games decline in sales.
Pikachu Fan Number Nine
Don't Mess wit Texas
Maybe Disney XD might have a say in whether Ash wins a league or not?
Pokegirl Fan~
Liko>>>>>Ash
They don't; they just air the show.
Leonhart
Imagineer
The Kalos League could've been better, but it wasn't that exasperating, either. The worst part for me was how every match other than Satoshi versus Alain seemed to be downplayed, but then again, it's likely my own bias because I'm a bigger fan of Shouta than I am of Alain. I also felt that Trova's match against Alain deserved to be a two-parter.
Akkipeddi
All set to be a nice guy
Well sadly that was never going to happen. The whole point of Alain absolutely destroying Trevor was to show how he indeed was in a league of his own. Yes, that in turn meant MCY had a disgraceful showing which was unfortunate. They really should have had MCY appear in the ME series in a more prominent role.
XY Rules
Pokemon Master
I didn't care since I knew it was coming. But I have to admit that the reactions coming from the salty fans were just priceless and unforgettable.
Yeah this XD.
What I was disappointed in was how horrendous the Kalos League itself was in the first place...We saw like two of Ash's battles. Only one of which he used actually strategy to win...And yes that is why he didn't even deserve to win Kalos in the first place.
Sinnoh was the first and only time I had ever actually thought that he was going to win. And once I saw that Latios, I realized it was stupid to ever expect it.